[Closed] Americans and their gun laws

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Shooting at Florida school - reports - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43066226</span>

Depressing that nothing will be done.

It's going to take decades, if not centuries, for the gun-loving generations to die off. Only then will things change.

I've come to the conclusion that for enough people in America the cost of a gun-rich society is one that they are prepared to pay.

Unfortunatley cranberry that ti's mostly the ones not getting shot.

Perhaps a representative of the offending gun manufacturer should be telling the parents their kids are not coming home

Perhaps a representative of the offending gun manufacturer should be telling the parents their kids are not coming home

... and the NRA.

128 gun deaths in Florida alone this year before this shooting.

280 school shootings since 2013. Click able map here  https://everytownresearch.org/school-shootings/#5924

and..... the thoughts and prayers have been dispatched to sort out the situation:

"The president has been made aware of the school shooting in Florida," said White House Deputy Press Secretary Lindsay Walters.
"We are monitoring the situation. Our thoughts and prayers are with those affected."

And so it continues to happen.

Nothing to see here, move along....

Oh, another one, there's a ****ing surprise.

Don't worry, the NRA are ok with it.

That map on the first link is fascinating... what is behind the massive east / west split? It doesn't follow state lines, so it can't be political, so what is it? Random chance? Geographic?

Anyway. Now isn't the time to talk about such things, obvs. We'll wait until there hadn't just been a shooting. Ummmm...

If only the kids had been armed they could have stopped this.

Compare that map with one of population density.

Lots of Crocodile Tears, no action. That's the modern American way!

Until some rich kids are gunned down, then nothings going to change.......

'Nothing will be done' because the majority don't want it to be done. Completely bonkers to most of us but that's the way democracy works.

The right to bear arms is ingrained in US society, a hold-over from the 1700s and was originally meant to make the country 'un-invadable' by the Brits.

Have just seen the latest school shooting in Florida being reported on the BBC news. The journalist made a very good point surrounding gun law, if Sandyhook in 2012 where 20 6 and 7yr olds were killed didn’t get a change to gun laws, there’s not much hope this one will.

Very sad but very very true.

19th school shooting so far this year.

It's the second week of February.

‘Nothing will be done’ because the majority don’t want it to be done. Completely bonkers to most of us but that’s the way democracy works.

Thats not true though - the majority of Americans support greater gun control - even the majority of NRA members support stricter gun control.  The NRA blocks ANY form of gun control, they even blocked a proposal that people on no-fly lists shouldn't be able to buy a gun!

The issue is the way that AMERICAN democracy works - ie: via bribery/lobbying.

Trumps message about changing politics and washington really resonated with people..... but unfortunately he was just lying.

Until some rich kids are gunned down, then nothings going to change

Even then it is unlikely to make a difference. After all various politicans of both parties have been shot at in the not so distant past and nowt has happened.

Expect the NRA etc to come out with comments along the lines of "it is too early to talk about it" until it is forgotten until the next shooting. They might go for a side helping of "if the good guys have guns".

On the plus side the NRA may have some funding difficulties. At least one major gun maker is in problems in part due to sales being down because people aint bulk buying in case the government takes their guns away.

Excuse me, how does the NRA block anything? It's just a club isn't it?

Excuse me, how does the NRA block anything? It’s just a club isn’t it?

They are one of the most powerful lobbyists on Capital Hill, and therefore have a huge amount of influence.

Excuse me, how does the NRA block anything? It’s just a club isn’t it?

They are a well funded and highly vocal lobbying organisation.

So, it's money in politicians pockets that blocks things.

Pretty much.

So, it’s money in politicians pockets that blocks things.

yup and that the pro gun lobby tends to be highly motivated so easier to turn out to cheer on/oppose a specific candidate.

And how long before we hear, once again, that the guns were legally held?

Yes, in the US lots of criminals have and use guns that are illegally owned, but these mass shootings are so frequently committed by people permitted to have the weapons. Some sort of twisted logic in the principle that you need the guns to protect yourself.

😡

"So, it’s money in politicians pockets that blocks things"

I don't really see a benefit in distinguishing between the morality of the briber and the bribee - one begets the other, chicken/egg etc.  It's certainly the NRA pulling the strings and setting the agenda.

Ironically, any company with a US footprint is subject US anti-bribery laws, which effectively bans any sort of bribery...... and yet it's ok in US politics and completely out in the open.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts

Stats and charts heavy; not everything is totally upto date but pulls together research and analyses from multiple sources.

Some of the republican politicos accepting NRA $$$ named and shamed - and some rated as A+ by the NRA.

How quick they have been with their tweets expressing sympathy - fuggin' hypocrites.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/373922-ny-daily-news-calls-out-gop-senators

Honestly it helped me understand the situation a lot more once I understood that for the NRA "responsible gun owner" just means "hasn't murdered anyone, so far as we know, yet". I kept hearing those words and thinking things like why would a responsible gun owner object to waiting periods, safe storage, mandatory safety training, limits on capacity, or whatever other soft gun control they're raging about today.

But remember, now is not the time to talk about gun control.

Northwind - no siree, definitely not the time to talk about control; must gather facts and send sympathy and condolences. That will help to prevent further mass murders - yup.

It's what Americans voted for.  Will of the People and all that.

Don't waste any time on this .... the Americans don't bother, neither should we.

It isn't going to change because of general stupidity.

another 7-10 will happen this year.

Is America’s apparent blindness to the harm caused by the prevalence of guns, similar to many countries when looking at deaths and injuries caused by vehicles?

Someone (barrister Martin Porter perhaps) commenting on said graph asked if those battling to prevent vehicle deaths could have 40x the funding of those fighting terrorism.

Maybe Americans fighting gun violence could be afforded the same level of control and cash given to those fighting terrorism.

Good point.  If a country that didn't have cars looked at the UK and saw that 1700 people are killed a year their reaction would be why doesn't the UK ban cars, have better car controls etc,.

How can the UK put up with all the needless death just because they like cars.

I am guessing road deaths per 1000 in the UK are pretty low...

And whilst the car haterz on here want to get ride off them, accept that personal transport is needed.... 1700 out of 65 mio is not huge

17 school shooting this year so far, is ....

I've worked in the USA with a lot of Americans & find it amazing that they all believe that they MUST be armed all the time.  As though they're life is like Hollywood film set & the bad guys are about to burst into their houses at any moment.

Argument number 1 for justification for having weapons:  Well if the bad guys have guns, then I/we must have them too to defend ourselves against them.

I fired off some guns at a friends house over there for the novelty factor & whilst happy to tick unloading an AK-47 clip off the bucket list, I just don't see the appeal that a lot (especially in the south) have with guns.

I was in Atlanta in late '13 after a big school massacre.

The company rep that was hosting me was of the opinion that if the teachers were armed then that wouldn't have happened.... He refused to accept my argument that if no-one was armed it wouldn't have happened.

You can't argue with such ingrained ignorance. Just watch and sadly accept the depressing  statistics and be grateful we don't have the same problem.

"In retrospect, Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over."

I believe gun homicides for 2018 in the US are currently running at "normal" levels, so they probably won't see any need for change.

The Onion runs the same headline every time there's a mass shooting...

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1823016659

Perhaps we could save our time and just have an all-purpose thread on here to be re-surfaced when required?

Their country. Their choice as to what constitutes acceptable collateral damage for their 2nd Amendment rights. One day they may wake up to the scale of the carnage on their streets and in their schools, I suppose.

Eight-in-10 Americans told the pollsters they favor bans on assault weapons, high-capacity ammunition magazines and "bump stocks," an accessory used by the Las Vegas shooter that allows a semi-automatic rifle to fire like an automatic weapon.

Eight-in-10 likewise said they favor a federal database to track all gun sales. On each of these questions, majorities of Democrats, independents and Republicans all were in favor of the restrictions to some degree.

But the share who were in favor, as well as the intensity of their agreement, varied by party — sometimes widely. For example, 91 percent of Democrats, along with 76 percent of independents and 70 percent of Republicans, said they are for banning assault-style weapons.

Which is all well and good but this;

Likewise, 72 percent of Republicans agreed with the statement, "The benefits of gun ownership outweigh the risks." Democrats were the near opposite of that, with 60 percent disagreeing.

shows that US conservatives (ie states where most gun sales occur and with the laxest restrictions) still believe that gun ownership is a 'good thing'.

It's a complex situation and at the heart of their identity for a lot of Americans.

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/13/557433452/poll-majorities-of-both-parties-favor-increased-gun- restrictions

In retrospect, Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.”

Very much this.

Anyway not even sure why we are discussing guns as its clearly a [s]mental health, social exclusion, domestic terrorism, violent video game, Marilyn Manson [/s] issue