repressed craving for shared experience
Yeah, but it is the nature of the shared experience that is the issue for me.
Shared joy? No problem.
Shared 'them' against 'us', backs to the wall, lashing out at enemies of our creation/imagination - the 'others'? No thank you.
It is the mentality that being positive about being 'X' means that you have to want to punch everyone who isn't 'X' that is the issue. It actually betrays a lot of petty insecurities - and as a nation (English) I do feel we are world-beaters at that.
absolute-bedlam-how-ticketless-fans-stormed-wembley
There needs to be a proper investigation into how ticketless fansa drunken mob effectively stormed Wembley.
Aside from the obvious Hillsborough style safety risk of too many fans in one area of the stadium its a huge security risk. Those people bypassing security could have brought anything into the stadium.
I don’t think it’s stereotyping too much to say that Japan has a much more conformist/ordered kind of culture than we do though?
When I see soccer violence I see conformism. A disordered and often drunken conformism, but conformist nonetheless.
Isn’t the premier league football fans violent subculture both conformist and collectivist? Also laced with hefty underpinnings of (principally male) chauvinism and tribalism? Classism plays into it too, I agree. But so (variously) do political/social/cultural shared histories of Nationalism, exceptionalism, jingoism, binge-drinking, racism, sexism etc?
None of those traits/habits in isolation would necessarily upset the World Team Scrabble Championship, yet add them all together and some poor ****er will get his skull bashed in because ‘Scrabble’.
‘OO ARYER?
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Japanese baseball was benignly ‘imposed’ on them by the US. It had no ‘back story’ and has a more ‘franchise’ model.
Soccer evolved along tribal lines in many ways in many countries. Along sectarian, class and political lines. More than any other sport.
When I see soccer violence I see conformism. A disordered and often drunken conformism, but conformist nonetheless.
Really interesting ideas. I think investigating along those sort of lines, is far more helpful in helping tackle such attitudes, than the 'othering' that so often happens (as exemplified here, with the 'rugby/cricket are better'; 'it's only a football problem'' type comments).
yup, plus-one has it
my brother got sucked into this shitpit just after he finished (failed) college
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luton_Town_MIGs
Its where Yaxley Lennon sprung up and the only thing that saved my brother was getting out & joining the navy
some of his mates from that time never got out, they post racist crap on facebook & twitter, one of his mates, who I was quite close to through cubs & scouts throughly messed his life up, coke, stella & violence
Pie-hole gobbing off today about this:
stank of bear and BO.
A truly grizzly situation
stank of bear and BO.
A truly grizzly situation
Don't panda to our baser instincts.
Don’t panda to our baser instincts.
You’re right we wouldn’t want to create a spectacle.
It's what you get in a country polarised by populism.
What I don't understand with football hooligans is you almost always get stories like this.....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Squad
"In February 2008, eleven men were arrested after up to 100 hooligans were involved in running battles between fans from Leicester City and Coventry City outside a pub in Coventry. Police confiscated knives and one man suffered minor head injuries.[4]
The week before the incident with Coventry fans, 13 men were arrested after clashes between fans from Leicester and Norwich in which some men sustained minor injuries.[5]"
How can hundreds of self styled hard men collectively only manage to inflict minor injuries?
Is it just 50 pissed blokes shouting "LET ME AT EM" and 50 others holding them loosely shouting "EEEZ NOT WURF IT MATE"?
I think for me the point is not ‘well everyone does it so what’s the big deal’ but more that it’s easy to point the finger at other people while ignoring your own issues.
We do have a serious problem with hooliganism/loutish behaviour generally and I suspect England is one of the worst countries in Europe for it. There must be many reasons why that is For me it’s probably a toxic combo of massive inequality (we are one of the worst developed nations for this), the decline of most of our industry, and the legacy of our former standing in the world/British exceptionalism. Maybe get Thatcherite selfishness in there too 😉
The toxic culture in England right now is maybe exacerbated by a shift to right wing politics, brexit justifying a range of patriotic garbage and so on, but we all need to face what is right there for everyone to see, it's not alcohol and it's not tory rule, it's a plain simple culture of loutish bigotry.
Examine the threads here looking to suggest others are just as bad, it's this, it's that, no one is taking responsibility and just facing the simple truth, and that is why it happens.
I come originally from Glasgow, and can remember a time when sectarianism ruled peoples habits, stabbing was the common outcome of clashes, you were born into one or other side, it was accepted and justified through blaming the other side, it took decades and more than one generation to evolve out of that and it still exists in pockets, the direction of travel is out of it, when I see references to Scottish football violence my instinct now is to be ashamed, personally, culturally, nationally, the lot, there is no justification, no pointing to others, no escape, you are either ashamed and moving away or justifying and moving toward, I'd suggest you don't make the same mistakes for the sake of the next generation, it doesn't matter that it happens elsewhere, benchmark yourself from countries where it doesn't, not ones where it does.
I agree with the title of the thread.
‘The jib’, how organised the ticketless were.
