[Closed] 'absence from work' markers

errrmmmm.

For the same period (2013) that is covered by the two charts, NHS absence averages, say, 3.9%.

UK Labour force absence rate (assuming 50:50 male/female employment, which we know it isnt, but it tends the sum to your favour) averages say 2.1%.

So NHS absence is 85% higher than the national average.

Wrong service.

The national annual sickness absence rate has fallen each year between 2009-10 to 2011-12. It fell from 4.40 per cent in 2009-10 to 4.16 per cent in 2010-11 to 4.12 per cent in 2011-12. It rose to 4.24 per cent in 2012-13 and then fell to 4.06 per cent in 2013-14. It rose to 4.25 per cent in 2014-15.

So at 3.9% it was lower that national which says 4.06%?

Hmm possible reasons why the NHS might have higher than average sickness rates. It can't possibly be anything to do with the fact that the staff come into contact with more ill people than the general public. It also can't possibly be anything to do with making sure that when they are ill that they don't pass things round the other patients thereby making them worse.

Nope it can't be anything like that they must all be skivers and malingerers!

The "National" in that context I think means "Nationally" across all NHS trusts and sectors. Not entire national workforce.

Nope it can't be anything like that they must all be skivers and malingerers!

youre just no fun gonefishin.

Yeeeesssss, martin and I are teasing Drac. Noooooooo, we dont genuinely believe the NHS are full of skivers and malingerers. Yesssssssss, there are real data illustrating a substantial variation between NHS absence and the rest of the UK workforce. Sooooooooo let's look at reasons for the variation rather than knee-jerk "must protect the NHS from criticism" auto-response.

Although I have to go and look for a new mower right now.

I've had 5 days in the last 2 weeks. 2 last week and 3 this week. Horrible constipation, bloody agony FWIW. Possibly due to Champix tablets?

"National" in that context I think means "Nationally" across all NHS trusts and sectors. Not entire national workforce.

Ohhhhhh! 😳

must protect the NHS from criticism" auto-response.

Or stop the pointless mentioning of the NHS in a critical manner? 😀

It makes sense to me NHS workers are off sick more. They deal with sick people, so come in to contact with disease, so have more chance of contacting illness.
And they're under massive stress while being overworked.

Or stop the pointless mentioning of the NHS in a critical manner?

l8r.

Peace out!

[img] [/img]

I used to work for the NHS. In management, so my absence rate was puny compared with you frontline skivers. 😀

<Cue pantomime villain hissing at NHS Managers>

It's OK though, my role was a waste of space and resources, so I, errr, managed myself out.

UK Labour force survey

It's s shame there isn't a corresponding set of data for actual illness rates, as it could just be falling because employers are getting tougher on legitimate absenteeism, or because people are skiving less, or because people are less ill...

@sadexpunk. The trouble with managers applying common sense is it upsets people. Why should one illness be OK yet another not OK. Managers are not qualified doctors so often have to go with a one size fits all approach or else they get accused of discriminating against xy or z. Whether you are off sick because of a cold or a triple heart by pass you are still off work. What type of absences should be OK and what should not...hard to judge.

[i]It makes sense to me NHS workers are off sick more. They deal with sick people, so come in to contact with disease, so have more chance of contacting illness.
And they're under massive stress while being overworked. [/i]

Nope, we were an admin function.

tbh 5h1t management is my normal answer, and a seemingly bizarre approach where everyone knows that how they are working/managing is wrong but they just carry on doing it 'cos everyone else does.

At an individual level the best way to deal with this sort of bureaucratic idiocy is to vote with your feet and find a job elsewhere.

Something really weird happened to me... I was off enough times to start The Process, and my boss sat me down and said "Are you alright? Anything we can do? You don't look too good tbh, I think you came back too soon, bugger off home". What's [i]that[/i] all about?

I have fond memories of the bank of scotland process, where I got told I should do more to avoid illness, after I fractured my hip. Then I went back a bit too early, hurt it, had to take more time off, got pulled up again for "too many incidences of illness". Everyone in the company knew how to work the numbers- never be off for one day, avoid patterns, basically all ways to ensure that even legitimately ill people end up skiving because the system will punish them if they don't.

Something really weird happened to me... I was off enough times to start The Process, and my boss sat me down and said "Are you alright? Anything we can do? You don't look too good tbh, I think you came back too soon, bugger off home". What's that all about?

That's how it's supposed to work.

Suggest she needs some time off because of stress caused by the written warning.

Which didn't happen.

Does that make it a psychosomatic illness?

[i]At an individual level the best way to deal with this sort of bureaucratic idiocy is to vote with your feet and find a job elsewhere. [/i]

Yep, didn't accept a contract extension. 🙂

OP she should look for another job, she can be fired with little option for come back with less than 2 years service

FWIW in Singapore some locals treat sick days as extra holiday, one of my team told me in advance which days she was going to be sick and always produced a doctors note when she came back 😯

In legal terms a 'verbal' warning is nothing - it's your boss saying 'I've had to have this conversation with you, this is what happens if I have to do it again'.

It's either in your HR file or it isn't. If it is then it's written.

just an update now that the letter has arrived......

blahdyblah absence is higher than the standard we expect at the Society, issuing you with an Absence Improvement Warning.....remain on file for 6 months.....within next 6 months onitor attendance....if future absence levels are more than one occasion a further warning could be issued for frequent absence.... you have right to appeal.....

so....my feelings are that she should appeal. shes always said throughout the years how people take the p1ss there with nothing said, weeks off at a time, 2 days back, weeks off again, playing the system. there is obviously the chance that others are being spoken to behind the scenes and she doesnt know, but as a manager came into the shop to interview her there, then she thinks she would have known if this happened to others.

yeah, first world problems and all that, especially today, but i still feel a sense of injustice for her and think she should appeal on the grounds of inequality of treatment.

interested in others opinions

thanks

Go off with stress caused by the letter. That'll teach em.

FunkyDunc - Member

each occasion being a couple of days with a cold or something like.

There's your problem, taking time off without being ill !

I had one of these once and replied asking for written guidance of what I should do if I do fall ill and where to draw the line in terms of symptoms, etc. Basically worded it as if I was awfully keen to avoid tripping any more sanctions but was powerless to prevent getting ill. Eventually got an apology from HR for being too heavy handed with the policy.

Don't fancy your chances of appeal on your reasons. Reason for appeal is usually a process not followed or punishment is unduly harsh not that you don't like the outcome. The onus would be on your wife to prove she is treated different and they will just say 'she is not, where's your proof. We cannot discuss others due to confidentiality'. Don't worry about others, if your wife has passed the marker just accept it and move on.

@Bruneep. Going off with stress is not the answer. All that may do is rack up another absence and lead to an escalation of the warning. Not clever or helpful to the OP.

i would imagine it was tongue in cheek mate 🙂

also not expecting anything from an appeal, just a show of 'not laying down and accepting a warning just cos shes an easy target' type of thing.

I had one of these once and replied asking for written guidance of what I should do if I do fall ill and where to draw the line in terms of symptoms, etc. Basically worded it as if I was awfully keen to avoid tripping any more sanctions but was powerless to prevent getting ill. Eventually got an apology from HR for being too heavy handed with the policy.

thanks

Trouble is these days companies have to treat everyone the same - the pisstakers, the grafters whoever.

They have to follow the script and in all likelihood if your wife is a good employee it'll be a case of 'well we had to call this interview but off you go'. They can't take a common sense approach becuase if they want to come down on a pisstaker and that person finds out your wife (for example) never even had a formal interview they can kick up a fuss.

FWIW Mrs Danny has a Bradford trigger of 60 and is currently scoring at somewhere in the region of 770 - she has just had her stage one interview and been told not to worry, just going through the motions etc.

Stevious' solution is the way to go.

Work for a American Biotech company, they get really really unbelievably hacked off if you come in with so much as a sniffle. I got lectured for coming in once!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presenteeism

A pharmacy should know better, you are potentially coming into contact with immune compromised patients.

Tom not every absence is due to a contagious disease. And maybe she works on the perfume counter in the pharmacy.........or should absenteeism be encouraged just because you work in a pharmacy. It's the fact you are out that is the issue. Not the reason. Things are not black and white.

A pharmacy should know better, you are potentially coming into contact with immune compromised patients.

and what a great place to pass on viruses and sickness, then sell the customer an expensive over the counter medicine and get their freinds in and infect them, a good way of increasing profits for a pharmacy.

If your wifes sick shes sick, just ignore them and appeal and as above ask what thier definaition of being sick is.

I imagine they won't give you a definition. It is the employees decision if they are fit for work or not. Does sickness cover physical injury (broken bones), mental health, or is it just a definition of a cold.........etc etc. Don't look at it as SICK,it is about absenteeism. If you are constantly absent that's the issue.

Our Bradford factor policy has 3 triggers, each with a different level of potential warning attached. That's the key point though, potential, the trigger point only gets you an interview with your manager/HR. After the interview it is down to their discretion to give you a formal warning or not.

It's there to capture casual sickness and identify patterns, broken bones will stroke off. A bit sneeze won't be.

Tom not every absence is due to a contagious disease. And maybe she works on the perfume counter in the pharmacy.........or should absenteeism be encouraged just because you work in a pharmacy. It's the fact you are out that is the issue. Not the reason. Things are not black and white.

Actually, yes I do think it should be encouraged. Lots of us live in cities with shockingly little thought put into public health at the city planning and built environment stage - and then everyday thousands and thousands of people go to work and mingle all of their diseases together in one giant melting pot of multiple drug resistant disease.

One day, something is going to come along that makes the world resemble the walking bloody dead - all in the name of profit.