[Closed] A conspiracy theory group we should be worried about, Sovereign Citizens.

Biggest threat in the UK just now is far right groups.

Biggest threat in the UK just now is far right groups.

Not sure how that can be known objectively or for certain but there is definitely truth in it. Perhaps it would be wise to try and understand their grievances and maybe see if there’s something we can do to integrate them more effectively into mainstream society.

Oh christ, they're the mob that lawyer (who isn't a lawyer any more) is aligned with, aren't they? Right Said Fred posted one of their videos with her in on Twitter - she was on there for 30 hours trying to defend that nonsense, the breakdown was spectacular and genuinely quite troubling to behold.

Biggest threat in the UK just now is far right groups.

I'm guessing these Sovereign Citizens aren't Lib Dem voters 🤔

Perhaps it would be wise to try and understand their grievances and maybe see if there’s something we can do to integrate them more effectively into mainstream society.

The tricky thing is their intransigence and illogical beliefs.

Perhaps it would be wise to try and understand their grievances and maybe see if there’s something we can do to integrate them more effectively into mainstream society.

That would be a waste of time, money and effort; they were part of mainstream society and are now deluded.

It’s de-radicalisation they need, not legitimisation.

Perhaps it would be wise to try and understand their grievances and maybe see if there’s something we can do to integrate them more effectively into mainstream society.

I fear their lack of any sort of intelligence, the stench of piss from their bed sheets and the fact that their carers won't let them out would be a barrier to meaningful dialogue.

I’m guessing these Sovereign Citizens aren’t Lib Dem voters

Do you think?

The tricky thing is their intransigence and illogical beliefs.

We do it with Islamic extremism; I agree it’s not something that often works but it’s a better strategy than further alienating them (as we found out with islamic extremism)

I fear their lack of any sort of intelligence, the stench of piss from their bed sheets and the fact that their carers won’t let them out would be a barrier to meaningful dialogue.

See that’s exactly the kind of thing guaranteed to get them building bombs and is no better than say the Daily Mail making equally crass remarks about Ismalic extremists dark skin and beards.

Perhaps it would be wise to try and understand their grievances

What if their grievances are a load of stupid nonsense though (spoiler: they are)?

From the BBC article

Alpha Men Assemble

At least they know their target audience 🤣🤣

Sounds like something from Thrudark's website

I stopped one driving one night - sorry, travelling, not driving - and he eventually got to the Magna Carta bollocks. I told him that that was between the King of England and the English barons, 500 years before the Act of Union, so didn’t apply in Scotland. That stumped him 😀. Anyway, after about half an hour his wife told him to stop being a nob because she wanted to get home, so he did.

We do it with Islamic extremism; I agree it’s not something that often works but it’s a better strategy than further alienating them (as we found out with islamic extremism)

What was interesting in the lawyer twitter breakdown was her absolute refusal to accept that she was wrong on any point, but also to refuse to engage at anything other than a very high level - if anyone tried to get into the nitty-gritty or offer a challenge, she'd just say they didn't know what they were on about, her default mode was "attack" (not excluding, from time to time, people who popped in to offer her support, which was pleasing 🙂 ). Extremism is exactly what it was, but I'm not sure how best to address it. Logic was just evaded, every time.

The UK equivalent is the Freemen on the Land movement. They're more interested in pseudo-law than terrorism.  These are the guys that bang about contracts and legal names and so on.

And there are already organisations in the US attempting to de-radicalise Far Right groups already.

They’re called Alpha Men Assemble, supposedly they’re ran by ex-military times and run training sessions in ‘combat camps’.

They’re called Alpha Men Assemble, supposedly they’re ran by ex-military times and run training sessions in ‘combat camps’.

I thought it was because they had tiny penises and couldn't get laid?

From the BBC article

Alpha Men Assemble

They should recruit via the stw motoring threads.

They bought the M5 to a standstill on Saturday.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/m5-chaos-protesters-spark-delays-6608934

What was interesting in the lawyer twitter breakdown was her absolute refusal to accept that she was wrong on any point, but also to refuse to engage at anything other than a very high level

Sadly, this is often the case. As soon as you try to drill into the details, the ad hominems start rolling in. The individual that Pondo refers to is quick to present their legal credentials, but when it came to questioning the minutiae of their facile points, the insults usually start.

The UK equivalent is the Freemen on the Land movement.

I was sat at a wedding table with one of them once.

That was a very long couple of hours.

Perhaps it would be wise to try and understand their grievances and maybe see if there’s something we can do to integrate them more effectively into mainstream society.

Mr Chamberlain, is that you?

Mr Chamberlain, is that you?

*coughs* @RustySpanner - The individual's posting history should be of interest, check it out...

Thick as s**t.

Their desire to be a sovereign person ceases as soon as they need a Police Officer, Solicitor or any other grown up.

Some groups have even held training camps for their members. Images have emerged of black-clad men being coached in "direct action" techniques.

They want to be careful with that kind of thing..... wouldn't want to get declared as a terrorist organization

Perhaps it would be wise to try and understand their grievances and maybe see if there’s something we can do to integrate them more effectively into mainstream society.

They have rejected mainstream society. There's no way to integrate them until they drop their fantasy worldview.

CH4 covered interviewed them.

I bet you won’t see it reported (supported?) on GB News. Which is ironic.

#satireisdead

In similar news: Antivaxxers are happy-angry and triumphantly-disappointed that the EU lost the ‘jab war’

So does this mean that Oliver’s Army are still going to war:

1. against the fight against COVID, or
2. against COVID itself, or
3. against the non-existent COVID (the ‘conspiracy’ of COVID)

or

4. ?

Perhaps it would be wise to try and understand their grievances and maybe see if there’s something we can do to integrate them more effectively into mainstream society.

Mr Chamberlain, is that you?

Actually Rusty, I remember reading an article recently on how they try to help people caught up in conspiracy theism and its about engaging them. To try to break the cycle and get them to see for themselves how ridiculous their beliefs were. Certainly never to attack them, but to show understanding and compassion, and to realize that they have psychological problems.

The methods used are the same as how they deal with people who have become caught up in cult mentality.

conspiracy theism

Is that the one where a supreme-being named ‘God’ set humanity up to fail unless we love him forever and ever? /joke

Certainly never to attack them, but to show understanding and compassion, and to realize that they have psychological problems.

The methods used are the same as how they deal with people who have become caught up in cult mentality.

I’d agree with that. Not always the easiest thing to approach though. I’ve seen a few families ripped apart by conspiracy nuttism.

Once so far down in the hole they will often view any intervention (no matter how kind and soft and genuine) as ‘evidence’ of you the intervener’s

1. ‘Weakness’/sheepitude/kindly stupidity or (They may yet try and save you from the Great Conspiracy)
2. Evil intent masked by ‘fake good-intentions’ (They view you as either evil/in the thrall of evil and a lost cause)

The methods used are the same as how they deal with people who have become caught up in cult mentality.

Cult mentality is exactly what it is. Meanwhile, in the background, who knows who's pulling the strings. 🙁

thegreatape
Free Member

I stopped one driving one night – sorry, travelling, not driving – and he eventually got to the Magna Carta bollocks

This you?

Edited version sovereign citizen meets dog, Magna Carta of little use in the ensuing nibble.

 but to show understanding and compassion

Some conspiracies are not like the others...I agree that you can do that with some folks and let's be honest some conspiracy theories are really just harmless, other's I'm not sure that I'd want to engage with some-one who holds QAnon or New World Order beliefs "honestly" I'd put Sovereign Citizens in the top tier of this chart for instance

Meanwhile, in the background, who knows who’s pulling the strings. 🙁

(Meta) conspiracy-theorists vs anti-conspiracy theorists assemble!

Who is conspiring against-for the conspiracists? Who is unwatching the unwatchers? This isn’t a ‘pyramid’, this is a metaversal, intersected double-inverted boolean fractal, endlessly blooming (and dying) in negative space within an ever-shifting framework of interdependent half-truths, full-truths, partial truths, half-lies, partial-lies and (OK you get the picture)*

‘Hold the hatch, I may be gone for some time…’

* Or, do you?

😀 - but no, my encounter was far more civilised.

The irony of a group defining themselves as "Alpha Men" being populated by a bunch of complete dildos.

That chart is excellent, however I believe there is some truth to the idea that celebrities moisturise with dead baby's foreskins 😳

Edit: yup! https://www.bostonmagazine.com/health/2015/04/14/baby-foreskin-facial-boston-hydrafacial/

The irony of a group defining themselves as “Alpha Men”

The further irony being of course that  the original research on wolves that was used to create the idea of "Alpha men" is in fact (to nobodies great surprise)... a load of horseshit. The "Alpha-dog" phenomenon was seen in captive wolves, go to normal conditions for wolves and the characteristics just aren't there. At all. So a duff behavioral study of an entirely different species gets mangled to produce a swathe of bullshit non existent architype conspiracy grifts to part fools and their money...Compassion indeed needed. (with a side order of laughing and pointing, obvs)

 I believe there is some truth to the idea that celebrities moisturise with dead baby’s foreskins

Given that Paltrow sells a candle that (allegedly) smells like her coochie, I'm prepared, at this point, to believe anything, to whom do I hand over my hard earned?

Some conspiracies are not like the others

Correct, but the point is it is not the conspiracy, and we can shoot the breeze all day over the ins and outs of each and how weird or extreme each is, but an addressing of the individuals caught up in its web.

Like horn guy, where we saw a distinct change in his rhetoric after realizing he'd been duped and the only ass on the line was his own.

s that the one where a supreme-being named ‘God’ set humanity up to fail unless we love him forever and ever? /joke

Yeah, I couldnt remember what the actual word was. It's actually Theologize. Sounded right at the time 😆

nutters gonna nut

WTF? Finland doesn't exist?!?

*googling intensifies*

her absolute refusal to accept that she was wrong on any point, but also to refuse to engage at anything other than a very high level

She could become Prime Minister