Rather like STW's political leanings can be deduced just by entering the forum.
But I'm not coming round to yours to pay you for a drink and a meal whist you keep chipping in spouting bollocks. 🙂
Life's too short to deal with people who make your skin itch.
but when ‘spoons are selling beer cheaper than actual pubs can buy it, we have a problem. Unless you think monopolies are a good thing?
Again... thats hardly Weatherspoons fault. Theres the economies of scale, obviously. But mainly, thats the fault of the model of pub ownership in this country where breweries happily absolutely fleece their tied tennets/landlordds by forcing them to pay prices way above market rate for beer their contractually obliged to buy.
If you want to have a go at someone, have a go at a government that refuses to regulate against this practice and the operation of what are effectively cartels of large brewers.
I'm not defending Weatherspoons. I go in the places once every blue moon (in true STW fashion I drink in my local independent microbrewery, which is bloody brilliant), but blaming Weatherspoons for the state of the pub sector is pretty wide of the mark.
In fact, you could argue that Mr Brexit has done us all a favour by breaking the stranglehold of the tied tennent/landlord business model that artificially inflates prices to us all
i had no view at all when i started reading the thread, but think its now binners +1.
I was in one of the MNPR favourite haunts last week. Pint and a Diet Coke - £7.20! Not even a bottled Coke, just a syrup and soda job out of a squirty gun.
In a 'Spoons youd get the drinks, a leg over and a pie for that. Although I can't vouch for the quality of the pie. Still won't drink there though.
thats hardly Weatherspoons fault.
I'm reasonably sure that Wetherspoon's bar prices are set by Wetherspoon's. They can choose to price at a level to be competitive or price to drive out and crush the competition, can they not?
image fail
Not even a bottled Coke, just a syrup and soda job out of a squirty gun.
It's probably a good earner for small pubs.
Back when I was a student, I worked in a bowling alley. Aside from the lanes, the biggest profit margin in the building by a country mile was the Wundergun soft drinks. A large drink that sold for like three quid back in 1991 cost less per serving to buy in than the little ketchup pots everyone expected for free.
I’m reasonably sure that Wetherspoon’s bar prices are set by Wetherspoon’s. They can choose to price at a level to be competitive or price to drive out and crush the competition, can they not?
That's not really the point. Weatherspoons don't set the artificially inflated prices the major brewers force their tennents and landlords to pay for their beer. They sell at lower prices because they use a different business model which allows them to sell beer lots cheaper, and are happy to do so at lower margins.
Much as you may dislike him (I do too) you have to have a certain respect for the fact that he's built a very successfull business, from nothing, by doing things very differently from the competition, with a business model that doesn't rely on exploiting what is essentially a cartel to rip off the people both selling and buying your beer. I'd say that overall prices are lowwer in pubs across the board than they would be if Weathspoons wasn't around. Capitalism, innit?
On Binners, point, Government still at it - witness the delays the Pubs Code Adjudicator (PCA) have made on all the Market Rent Only applications made by pubs, and the fact that CAMRA took them (PCA) to the ICO to get information on their working (or lack of). Think there’s another story on this in yesterday’s Private Eye.
Think there’s another story on this in yesterday’s Private Eye.
Yup. Landlord taking one of the pubcos to court about them dragging out the MRO process as long as possible. He is trying to get the lower rent backdated.
Even if wetherspoons charged the same and the punco owned pubs got more custom all that would happen is their rent would get upped by the pubcos and the landlords would still be in a shit place.
My local micro brewery sells to Weatherspoons.
If you're brewing cask ale in small batches and selling to independents there can be a lot of wastage as each independent only buys a few casks. Any left over will quickly go off. He said Wetherspoons would give him a fair price for the entire remainder of a batch as they were confident they could sell all of it quickly.
Thats bang on Dissonance. Running a pub (I've had mates who have done in the past, and good mates who still do) is the only job where if you make your boss - the brewery - more money through your successful management, you then get punished by them for it with increased rent and beer prices
Frankly its an absolutely scandalous business model! Totally immoral and exploitative. Its flagrant profiteering by what is effectively a cartel.
So if Weatherspoons are doing something different and taking these lot on, and winning (which means cheaper eating and drinking for everyone), I can't see why people have a huge problem with them (Bexit propoganda notwithstanding, obvs)
In a perfect world we'd all have a nice independent micropub that did great beer and food at easonable prices as our local. But in the absense of that unrealistic proposition I'd say the spoons model is certainly the lesser of two evils
That’s not really the point. Weatherspoons don’t set the artificially inflated prices the major brewers force their tennents and landlords to pay for their beer. They sell at lower prices because they use a different business model which allows them to sell beer lots cheaper, and are happy to do so at lower margins.
JDW doesn't set the prices of other places, of course, and if it's driven down prices elsewhere then that's a good thing for the consumer. Historically I've always kinda liked Wetherspoon's, they're pretty soulless places but you can be reasonably assured of a decent pint at a sensible price without suddenly discovering halfway through that it's karaoke night.
My point though is just because you can do something, does it mean you should? Say the going rate for a pint in a given area is £4 and JDW can afford to sell it at a profit for £2. If they price a pint at £3.90 then that's a competitive price and it maximises their profits; if they price it at £2 then the profit margin is much lower but it will probably destroy the competition. Arguably the latter may be better business for JDW long-term, but at what cost to everyone else?
Real drinkers drink at the station on their way into the office....
He said Wetherspoons would give him a fair price for the entire remainder of a batch as they were confident they could sell all of it quickly.
That's not the first time I've heard this / similar stories. Part of the reason they can keep prices low is by buying short-life beer that no-one else wants to buy.
but at what cost to everyone else?
£2 a pint?
If the breweries weren't blatently profiteering through their dodgy business practices all pubs would be able to sell their beer much closer to Weathspoons prices.
Weatherspoons aren't destroying the competition, the breweries are. If they didn't have Weatherspoons as competition, do you think their prices would be higher or lower?
It does seem a bit daft and self-defeating to me, but they seem happy to carry on doing it
Can't disagree with that.
'spoons don't have a particularly clever business model, they can just afford to buy property. Every tennant's dream is to own a free house, they just can't afford to wheras Tesco/'spoons can.
I'm sorry, but that's just cobblers. Everyone has to start somewhere. They may be massive and able to do that now, but he built the business up from one pub. You don't get to do that unless you're pretty shrewd, business-wise
Or perhaps it was just good luck?
‘spoons don’t have a particularly clever business model,
Getting to the stage where they can do that though was the clever bit. Now they have scale (for buying) and reserves for purchasing but they had to get there.
Even now when you look at some of the buildings they use its rather clever eg some of those examples Binners posted (or the playhouse in Colchester). They bring old buildings back into use in a way that the conservation societies etc can live with which probably helps with getting a licence as well.
OK I'll put it this way; none of the 24yr olds I know can afford to buy a pub.
Bloody millenials, probably waiting for someone to just give them a pub.
In a lot of the films I’ve seen almost none of the attractive young people seem to have any pubs.
It’s a fashion thing I suppose.
It wasn’t like that in the 70’s.
That's an even better vote winner than free laptops!
Top tip: if you enjoy eating real food, avoid any establishment where the chips aren't gluten free. 😉
If I had my own pub at 24, by the time I hit 25 I'd basically have become father Jack
none of the 24yr olds I know can afford to buy a pub.
True. Not many can afford to buy a house either. I suspect the two are linked.
If you do want those 24yr olds to be able to pursue a decent career as a pub landlord then the starting point would be pushing back the pubcos power. That way they might not have to dream just of a freehouse but be able to make a living anyway.
I know an independent pub does bombadier for £1.90 a pint. No idea how. But the landlord does pin typed (as in not printed) probrexit and anti-political correctnesss poems to the wall, amongst the brasses and pissed-off looking fox heads. I manage to turn a blind eye.
One of the nearest pubs to my home is a wetherspoons. Never used to go there as the chances of meeting my offspring were simply too high.
my (main) home
Christ almighty.
One of the nearest pubs to my (main) home is a wetherspoons. Never used to go there as the chances of meeting my offspring were simply too high.
You know sometimes where there's something called "too much information..." this may be that 🙂
you're so right. Concentrating too hard on trying to post a pic of rees Weitherspoon, for purposes of a joke. Whatever, I don't own a pub.
Now it's Christmas and all of the works do's
go to spoons for their first GnT
But it's Julie from purchasing who never goes out
who just gets way too lashed too early
and the deadbeats and losers and alkies
all grumble because of the crowd
for they're waiting till 7 till they all stumble out
to buy a lone drink, not a round
laaaa diddi da da
great effort for the first verses and chorus
But I’m not coming round to yours to pay you for a drink and a meal whist you keep chipping in spouting bollocks. 🙂
Sorry Rusty, I’ll get you on the list for the next Penne and Prosecco bash at Chez Eddie. Hope I haven’t oversold the concept but I want to cash in now before I have to downgrade to pint and a pastie themes. 🙁
Forget these brilliant lyrics you’re coming up with, just replace on Beasley Street with in Wetherspoons.
I know an independent pub does bombadier for £1.90 a pint. No idea how. But the landlord does pin typed (as in not printed) probrexit and anti-political correctnesss poems to the wall, amongst the brasses and pissed-off looking fox heads. I manage to turn a blind eye.
I wouldn't worry too much, it'll self-police. He'll be out of business by June.
I think , as others have said that some wetherspoons are ok , the one in Leyland for instance is really nice - built around the theme of buses [ ie local industry ], others are shabby .Where I live there are plenty of shit pubs that were built in the 60s and seventies where you can pay good money for shit beer in shit surroundings [ and also a growing number of really good micropubs- there is no good reason for beer to be more expensive that wine .As others have said its just corporate greed.
Well i missed the early boat on this but hey...
[i] it's 8am on a Thursday
The regular crowd's already in
There's an old man sitting next to me
Waiting for service to begin
He says son have you tried the breakfast here
It comes with plenty of toast
It's good and it's cheap and I'd eat it complete
Until the bar opens up
Oh, la la la, di da da
La la, di da da da dum
<chorus>Tell us a sermon, you're the judgmental man
Tell us your better right now
Because We're all in the mood for a car-ar-ling
And you've got us bang to right<chorus>
Now Tim at the bad is a corporate clone
He tops up my coffee for free
And he won't pour you French wine or Lithuanian mead
Because there's somewhere he'd rather not be
He says "I believe Europe is killing me"
As Theresa smile ram away from her face
"Well I'm sure we'll all be better off
When we could get out the Europe-place"
Oh, la la la, di da da
La la, di da da da dum
Now Owen is a functional alcoholic
Who downs a few pints before work
He's talking to Mark, who once was a spark
But now lives a retired life.
Now the waitress is laying out hard liquor
That stw ordered on their phones
Yes they're all drinking in Wetherspoons
All the better to look down their nose.
<chorus>
It's a pretty good crowd for a Thursday
And the owner gives me a smile
'Cause he knows that it's his prices that attracted me
And to look at look at the real world for a while
And the fruit machines light like a carnival
And the carpet is soaked with beer
And they walk to the bar for another Jaeg-ar
And i say man this is good eggs benedict
Oh, la la la, di da da
La la, di da da da dum
Chorus[i]
The Spoons near me are pretty joyless pledges to go. Only good thing is no music. I'm that age.
I do like a Coyle of places near me that so the whole real ale thing. Oooh sad thing is I doubt either will be around 10 years from me now. A shame as one in particular is a real centre for the little community round it.
One old girl there had recently lost her husband and to see how the pub has basically carried her through this terrible time has been really heart warming. Proper old school community stuff.
If you’re brewing cask ale in small batches and selling to independents there can be a lot of wastage as each independent only buys a few casks. Any left over will quickly go off. He said Wetherspoons would give him a fair price for the entire remainder of a batch as they were confident they could sell all of it quickly.
Is bollocks. As is the JDW chain buying short dated stock., total bollocks.
They refuse to accept short dated beer and will send it back if it got less than 4 weeks BB on it.
I have sent thousands of casks into the JDW estate . They get wholesale prices as , every year, at budget time, you tender to supply an approved list of outlets .
There are bracket prices , and as you may have 20 -40 pubs , its a holesale price.- but you have to direct deliver to each pub ( not wholesale )
And as for the comment about JDW selling it for less than it costs a free house to buy , guess what. Total BS . I can run the numbers , but i can assure you its a total fabrication.
If , as a brewer you get rotation on a festival event ( 2 a year easter and october ) then you are on a winner . You have access to 1000+ accounts so it is a silly amount of volume, in a 2-3 week period . These prices are marginally lowwer than the tender prices above, because distribution is done by 3 rd party, from carlsberg Gravelly park . SO the dist cost is lower
HTH
Right following on from 8am in Wetherspoons I give you 11:30pm in Brewers fare. 5 minutes after leaving the brewers fare we were in last night to retire to the adjacent Premier Inn a couple of well built chaps walked in with rather large knives, demanded our friends put their mobiles and wallets on the table then proceeded to empty the safe and attack the cash point. Didn't take the patrons phones in the end. Hagley road in Birmingham.
"Running a pub (I’ve had mates who have done in the past, and good mates who still do) is the only job where if you make your boss – the brewery – more money through your successful management, you then get punished by them for it with increased rent and beer prices"
They're effectively a franchisee - which is always a horror show. There's a reason the franchisor doesn't want to run the place themselves...
For those that were asking earlier in the thread why folk were aware / bothered about Mr Spoons Brexit support - he's making a speech at the moment at the Leave Means Leave Gammon Fest in London. In addition to all his pubs being festooned with Brexit related posters and beer mats.
So if you choose to politicise your business it comes with positive and negative consequences. I assume he weighed it up and decided the ruddy-faced pound was worth more to him.
