You have a visibility of miles on that road
Problem is the human brain is not capable of processing all the visual information, the faster you go the lower the percentage of total information you actually recognise. So yes you have miles of straight road, but you don't actually "see" that much.
Hence my point about number plates, all that is expected is to be able to read some 4" characters on a bit of plastic 20metres away, and for most drivers, you only need to worry about this once in your life.
The trouble is that road warriors in cars deter all other non motorised road users, which is what you "excellent drivers" somehow seem not to understand in your little worlds of me, me, me.
The point lost on all the pious ones is that everyone here cycles too
mrmo - you would be able to see a deer
[i]There is a US survey of drivers that had 93% of drivers convinced they were above average drivers. makes me wonder how bad the other 7% were though! [/i]
I agree that most people believe that they are good drivers, statistics and results show otherwise.
For me though, 30 years without an accident covering upto 40k pa including commuting into London for years on a m/c - yep, I reckon I'm a decent driver.
mrmo - you would be able to see a deer
Not if it came from behind! 😛
Hence my point about number plates, all that is expected is to be able to read some 4" characters on a bit of plastic 20metres away, and for most drivers, you only need to worry about this once in your life.
Depends how often you have number plates jumping out at you
If, however, there were regular retests, then it would be a problem more often for most people. Again: better driving standards are required, not lowering the speed at which people are expected to drive at. In any case, there are plenty of motorways where deer may be encountered. Are you advocating 40mph there too?
The point lost on all the pious ones is that everyone here cycles too
hmmm....
Not so sure, i have read too many threads on here, where supposed cyclist claim bikes have no right to be on the road.
Time and time again, survey after survey, why won't people cycle more? they are scared of cars. Why aren't kids allowed to walk to school, cars, some people i work with, live in a rural area. 1/2mile to school, but they won't let there kids walk or cycle because cars treat the road as a race track, it is not safe.
Yes the solution is to remove the driver "entitlement" but that includes making drivers accept the rules, whether they like them or not. Regular retests, car crushed for speeding, seized for parking on double yellows, etc.
Basically zero tolerance.
But drivers vote, do you see any government enforcing rules that stop drivers driving?
So what are the other options?
Not so sure, i have read too many threads on here, where supposed cyclist claim bikes have no right to be on the road.
Have you ever actually read that? Or is it just an 'extrapolated fact'. Any linked examples?
Time and time again, survey after survey, why won't people cycle more? they are scared of cars. Why aren't kids allowed to walk to school, cars, some people i work with, live in a rural area. 1/2mile to school, but they won't let there kids walk or cycle because cars treat the road as a race track, it is not safe.
This is a pretty different argument. I don't think anyone has any issues with the speed limit being lower in/near towns and villages. Perhaps best if you stick with the original point?
Why aren't kids allowed to walk to school, cars, some people i work with, live in a rural area. 1/2mile to school, but they won't let there kids walk or cycle because cars treat the road as a race track, it is not safe.
[b][u]In a rural area,[/u][/b] exactly the point, just because you made the assumption that kids walking to school can only happen in an urban environment is exactly the problem, too many stupid drivers not bothering to think about what is around them.
Do you know where the rural school bus routes near you go? do you know where the bus stops are, where houses that might feed passengers to those stops?
Have you ever actually read that? Or is it just an 'extrapolated fact'. Any linked examples?
Yes i have read it on here, and no i can't show any examples, the search is crap and i don't keep a file of stupid comments for stupid threads.
Yes the solution is to remove the driver "entitlement" but that includes making drivers accept the rules, whether they like them or not. Regular retests, car crushed for speeding, seized for parking on double yellows, etc.
Yet you miss the driver error that causes most accidents: carelessness
Perhaps if that was policed better, you know, by using real police as opposed to cameras, then the standard of driving may well improve. But I suppose you could always get more draconian and crush TJ's bike for him doing 61 on that road up there^^^
I'm sure that will reduce the road toll 🙄
I hit a dear at about 75 on a country road. It cost me about £4500 to repair the car. Shit happens. Yeah I know, next time it could be a childs face.
A 40 zone would not have stopped me, the fastest bit on my way to work is the one bit of 50mph road, it's safer to dive this quickly than all the rest of the 60mph zones.
Please lynch me.
In a rural area, exactly the point, just because you made the assumption that kids walking to school can only happen in an urban environment is exactly the problem, too many stupid drivers not bothering to think about what is around them.
Yet your specific example suggested a 1/2 mile walk to school, meaning school and home are presumably within 1/2 mile of each other...
And as for posts, unless you can find them using the pretty simple and comprehensive search function, I'm happy to assume you've made a few too many assumptions
Not if it came from behind!
[img] 
[/img]
I live way up north in cumbria/lakes, and yeah do enjoy a good drive once in a while, but also being a cyclist/walker/jay walker (lol) does give perspective, and from passing test you soon realise driving like a dick = going to get someone killed pretty quick!
Generally I would say the two categories of driver who NEED the 40mph limit are those dick's who drive their 1.0 corsa's on their doors everywhere regardless of road conditions because its 'cool' to pretend the road between teh villages is a racetrack, and the other group are those who can barely handle a car at the best of times (lets say school run 'parents' to avoid the obvious) and in my 15 or so years of riding, it is [b]THAT[/b] group of drivers who have nearly killed me/nearly hit me/actually hit me whilst out on the roads.
When I'm down south (do quite a bit of work around Gloucestershire/Bristol & east of there), and FUNK! how do you people survive/not go crazy/end everything. Pretty much all the roads, including the damn motorways! are restricted right down. Huge sweeping A roads with AMAZING quality surfaces, fantastic visibility that would be the normal 60mph (and could be driven faster if you were aforementioned dick), were 40mph and you would often barely manage that as cars bumped up so close to each other all the time, same for the minor roads; you'd be steaming along, next time, road reduces to single file to negotiate a traffic calming measure/speed bumps out in the middle of no-where and general madness.
One of the weeks I was down there I had an 18mile commute, up here, even with moderate commuter traffic would take me a max of 30-35minutes, down south? 50-70minutes FFS!
/rant over. However I do appreciate there are places where a 40mph limit OR at least an advisory (square sign) would be great.
Yet you miss the driver error that causes most accidents: carelessness
No, it is included in the entitlement idea, ensure that their regularly retests, ensure drivers have to drive carefully, start fitting black boxes to cars.
You will never get ride of all car accidents, but you can ensure drivers understand they have no right to drive, that they are their by licence only. That getting 12 points means loosing the right to drive rather than going to a judge and claiming financial hardship and being allowed to carry on driving.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8833796/Carry-on-driving-for-half-of-drivers-with-12-points-on-licence.html ]Telegraph[/url]
Yet your specific example suggested a 1/2 mile walk to school...
never seen a school in the countryside have you?
[url= https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=safari&q=tredington+primary+school&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&ei=APQBUICzDcLL0QXmmPj-Bg&ved=0CFIQ_AUoAg ]A rural school[/url]
[url= https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=safari&q=rendcomb+college&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&ei=tPQBUN7AJoTG0QXg7fyhBw&ved=0CDoQ_AUoAg ]another[/url]
I find driving at 40 on rural roads sooooo boring. I find it hard to stay awake.
No, it is included in the entitlement idea, ensure that their regularly retests, ensure drivers have to drive carefully, start fitting black boxes to cars.
Black boxes that tell when the driver is lost? That tell when they're looking for a cd? That tell when they're arguing with their parter? That tell when they're pacifying their kids? Wow!
And yes, I have seen a rural school, I went to one. I may even have cycled there on occasion. I repeat: your straw man is just that. I don't think many people would have issues with lower speed limits near houses, where ever they are. Personally, near schools they should go further like they do in south oz: 25 kph (15 mph) at school times
God u lot are simple.The Bullingdon scum are just electioneering.Let's appsal more to the bigot/Clarkson classes and fick the consequences for others.Gideon
exactly
Clearly I think most would agree that this is a good spot to get past the tootling Skoda driving 40mph tourists and allow me to get on to my place of work tomorrow?
I usually find it's the Merc SLK250/Honda Civic/generic Japanese saloon driving at an indicated 40mph (36mph) on a 50-60mph road that hold me and my Skoda up, in the same way they used to hold me up in my Puma.
They are the people who cause accidents, which result in road speed limits being reduced to 'stop accidents', because other drivers get frustrated at being forced to dawdle along 20mph under the national A-road speed limit, attempt to overtake where it's not really safe to do so, and there's an accident. If drivers stuck to 50-55mph, traffic would move faster and there would be less frustration. I used to drive 8 or so miles to work and back every day for thirteen years, from Chippenham to Calne. When I started, in a Vauxhall Chevette, then a Talbot, then a Nova, then finally a Puma, I saw the time it took drop from twelve-fifteen minutes to nearer thirty five, purely because cars were travelling slower and slower, for no discernible reason I could make out.
I mention the Merc, because there have been a number of occasions I've been stuck behind one going to Bath that refused to go faster than 40mph, and braked at every bend it came to. She came to, I should say...
God u lot are simple.The Bullingdon scum are just electioneering.Let's appsal more to the bigot/Clarkson classes and fick the consequences for others.Gideon
If only balanced and open minded people like you were in charge.....
If there was an intelligent approach to roads/speed etc it would be fine. All that will come is a set of guidelines that say x Corners/3miles = 30mph, 2x = 40mph.
I assume most of you missed the part where the National Speed limit sign means Drive to the Road Conditions not 60mph.
Having spent most of my life living in rural areas bad driving & inappropriate speed not speed as a simple number are the problem.
Regardless of this it is practically unenforceable.
mws-If you think the people who proposed this have open minds and act upon the basis of evidence.Then you really are sadly deluded.
I think you mean, not safe for YOU. If you'd been on the Rannoch road you'd realise that in the right conditions its perfectly safe for someone in/on a well maintained vehicle (who is actually able to drive) to drive at +100mph - like many other roads in the country.
I've driven over the Rannoch Moor road many times, not done it on my motorbike. Thing is no matter how good TJ's eyesight is he cannot see the unexpected and when the unexpected happens and your on a public road others are put at risk. Have seen a car upside down at the side of the road on Rannoch moor too actually. I bet they thought they were awesome too!
TandemJeremy - Member
I simply do not believe hilldodger has never broken a law in his life
Why - just because you are apparently unable to ?
When I used to ride motorbikes we went to track days for our kicks, otherwise a bike was just a way to get around and do fun stuff.
When I need to use a motor vehicle I pay someone to drive me - cheaper & easier, and it's rarely something I need to do.
Other laws - I don't agree with all of them or the system by which they are derived and enforced but I expect others to live within them so I do so myself.
When I've wanted to experience things which are outside our law I've traveled to places where these practices are tolerated and part of the local culture.
For me, one of life's challenges is finding fun and enjoyment within an organised, law abiding society - not engaging in petty acts of reckless rebellion.
Your outlook on life appears to be centered around what you find to be reasonable, mine is based around what the society in which I live finds to be reasonable - Hypocrisy Vs Democracy......
I am with the comments above about it being driving standards, not some 'blanket' rule. We need people to drive with more awareness and consideration.
Problem is drivers will always think it doesn't apply to them.
I was just thinking about speed bumps on Friday, such a pain why do we have to have them. Simple, drivers where asked nicely to take it steady and just do the numbers on the nice little round sign, but no we/they can't be trusted. Just picked my son up from a village at about 5.30am and a Merc came through so fast you could see the body lifting. Like so many folk he has probably assumed it's safe to drive like that at 5.30am on a Sunday morning.
Living in a rural area I would say that dropping the limit to 40mph on dangerous stretches of road wouldn't be a bad idea, blanket coverage would not be good.
As someone said above there would be some very inconsiderate drivers who will still do 70mph, some 30mph ove the limit and, if I am correct, and automatic ban if these cheeky little devils are caught.
Education is the key.
Why is it safe for some one of average driving skill to do 70 mph on a motorway without a care in the world, yet wrong for some one to do 70 mph on a country road paying attention.
Why is it safe for some one of average driving skill to do 70 mph on a motorway without a care in the world, yet wrong for some one to do 70 mph on a country road paying attention.
No hedges. 🙄
The bit I still don't get is this: "NSL means drive to the conditions, not 60 everywhere"
We all know this, and we should be able to judge conditions well enough without a little sign and the threat of three points because a road has bends. As I've said before, near houses / schools is different; but away from places where people could be reasonably expected, if 60 was safe enough on cars designed 30-40 years ago, it certainly should be now
As for "unexpected things" causing accidents: plenty unexpected things cause accidents on motorways. Perhaps they should all be 40 too?
No hedges.
I don't see any on that photo of a road in Scotland, nor are there many on the country roads I use / used to use regularly 🙄
@monkeycmonkeydo - just chuckles quietly at the missed point
Why is it safe for some one of average driving skill to do 70 mph on a motorway without a care in the world, yet wrong for some one to do 70 mph on a country road paying attention
Hope that was ironic, if not please post licence to the bin
Personally, near schools they should go further like they do in south oz: 25 kph (15 mph) at school times
So what is near a school? are we going to say a 1 mile speed limit? maybe 2miles each side of the school? Obviously most drivers are too awesome for it to apply to them, so what has been achieved? Drivers aren't going to slow to 15mph for two miles whilst they go past a school, they are simply to important for the limit to apply to them
A local village has a 20mph limit and the attitude of most drivers if you dare to drive that slow! beeping, driving on your bumper etc.
Drivers can not be trusted, why do we have speed bumps? because drivers can't be trusted, why the proposal to lower the speed limit because drivers can't be trusted to make decisions.
Will lowering the speed limit make much difference? looking at the number of awesome drivers who can drive, apply makeup/use the phone etc. I doubt it. But it might help make some drivers think twice.
Why shouldn't black boxes be fitted? it won't pick everything, but if you driving like a prat maybe it becomes obvious at trial.
Hope that was ironic, if not please post licence to the bin
not ironic he's just trying to show how awesome he is.
I don't see any on that photo of a road in Scotland, nor are there many on the country roads I use / used to use regularly
You clearly hadn't seen [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/40mph-plan-for-country-roads/page/4#post-3981273 ]this[/url], leading me to fail you on observation and ability to read the conditions of the thread correctly. Please surrender your log-in and reapply after a few more lessons.
I struggle with long sentences - but in the first couple of pages the amount of Daily Wail style knee-jerk reactions without even bothering to read the proposal are staggering.
Oh, and I've driven that Rannoch Mor road plenty of times and you're kidding yourself if you think 80-100mph is a suitable speed down there.
Why shouldn't black boxes be fitted? it won't pick everything, but if you driving like a prat maybe it becomes obvious at trial.
What would it tell you?
And ever heard of civil liberties if it involves recording voice?
Why not just use existing laws about careless driving, rather than putting up new speed limits which even you admit would probably make no difference?
What would it tell you?And ever heard of civil liberties if it involves recording voice?
Sorry you are licensed to drive a car, you have no right to drive a car. Civil liberties don't come into it, sooner car drivers understand this the better for everyone. As for what it would tell you, simple case where were you how fast you were going, how fast accelerating/decelerating, i.e. are you driving like a prat.
Do you object to Lorry drivers being on Tachos? Surely it would be better for everyone if we delimit trucks and let drivers choose the hours they do?
grum - Member
I struggle with long sentences - but in the first couple of pages the amount of Daily Wail style knee-jerk reactions without even bothering to read the proposal are staggering.
POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST
And as ever, such an erudite comment appears to lift the tone of the thread
Why not have a similar system to truck tachographs to record speed? Or are truck drivers having their cival liberties messed with?
Sorry you are licensed to drive a car, you have no right to drive a car. Civil liberties don't come into it, sooner car drivers understand this the better for everyone. As for what it would tell you, simple case where were you how fast you were going, how fast accelerating/decelerating, i.e. are you driving like a prat.
Or whether you drive a lada or a Ferrari 🙄
I just find it amazing how many posts there are saying 'how dare they impose a blanket 40mph on ALL country roads', when at no point has that ever been suggested by anyone AFAICS.
This is STW. You know it's not common practice here to let the facts let in the way of a good rant.grum - Member
I just find it amazing how many posts there are saying'how dare they impose a blanket 40mph on ALL country roads', when at no point has that ever been suggested by anyone AFAICS.
It surely doesn't matter even if the speed limits are reduced as who is going to enforce them? Speed camera's aren't practical on narrow winding roads and it's hardly like there's any traffic cops about so I'd personally just drive at similar speeds as I do now.
As always driver eductaion and regular retests (say every 3 years)would be the best way to reduce accident rates and congestion rather than focusing on speed.
All the people moaning and wanting lower speed limits cite poor driving as the main justification. So why not fix the cause, rather than the symptom?
