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That's a nice touch.
we see what you did there !
I like to think I'm Anakin to Perchy the Jedi...
They've a really uphill task ahead. They will have a boat that's less than perfect, they were struggling at times and communication was poor before this breakage. And thier confidence must have taken a knock.
Compare them to NZ and UK who are floating higher on confidence, have continued to improve the boats and been on the water every day since.
I think the final will be NZ vs GB, and I'm not going to call it between them.
It’s interesting that each team only has one boat and no racing practice between the teams is allowed. I ETNZ aren’t destroying their opposition with speed then they will struggle. All 3 challenger skippers have a better match racing pedigree.
I suspect ETNZ are somewhat less confident than they were just before Xmas.
They've not done much sailing alongside ineos (if it is them that gets through) and one of those encounters ended in their capsize.
That's before we start discussing the (I think we can say) pretty immense talent of GS and BA.
I bet the Americans thought that their place against ETNZ was nailed on before Xmas.
Just shows huh!
Until the challenger races ETNZ, we really have no idea what they've done since the Xmas Cup.
Whilst Ineos are favourites, its still wide open and weather dependant who nails down the spot. Its such a shame there aren't more teams in the Prada Cup.
Whilst Ineos are favourites
I'm not so sure.
NZ are good, determined and on home turf.
They have different control systems to the others - I was watching a video suggesting the helm also trims main, as you would in a dinghy. All others split controls like you would in a keelboat. The suggestion is that NZ can react more quickly - and that they are still sandbagging some...
Does that include the capsize?!
I think the time for sandbagging is well past TBH as there's nothing to be gained.
its still wide open and weather dependant who nails down the spot
I'm not so sure. Ineos kicked everyone's ass in 12-13 knots, beat both in <10 knots and beat LR while rocking a disabled cunningham in 18-19 knots!
They currently look like a pretty complete package.
....and the only two points LR has won have been when the other boat didn't finish!
Looking forward to the races when I wake up tomorrow. If AM don’t win both races tomorrow I think they are toast as the winds are going to get lighter.
Seems to be all over for AM.
They are wrestling with that thing. I agree it's hard to see them come back now.
In other rumors, NZ seem to have some 'secret new thing' going on, though have reportedly had a couple of big moments going on too. Rumors of extra booms / twin booms / reversible battens in the mainsail on SailingAnarchy.
Edit: and Skinner foils with some curvature.
However one of the YouTube videos was claiming a noticeable step up in speed at times.
This may explain USA control issues.
See 1:26:08 - foil arm bouncing around in the water under load. Something's flexing or moving inside that boat.
Yeah - I noticed that foil movement. I wasn’t sure if it was intentional or not.
AM looked to be using a smaller jib than LR in the first race, same size in the second. AM were not pointing as high on the beats, but I couldn't tell whether that was in the rig or the foil slipping and making leeway.
The foil arm bouncing could be interesting, I guess it a could be mechanical or hydraulic cause. Foil arms being a supplied part, I don't know what the rules say if there's an issue - but probably drowning the system makes it AM's problem.
It seems like Bruni is taking control from Spithill today? His has been the voice leading everything.
Foil arms being a supplied part, I don’t know what the rules say if there’s an issue – but probably drowning the system makes it AM’s problem
Yeah the foil arms and canting system are a one design system supplied to all the teams - very doubtful its's movement in the arm as it would be happening on the other boats also.
I think AM had a new system installed after the crash so maybe it's not set up fully although I'm finding that hard to believe.
AM were not pointing as high on the beats
I suspect that their 'batsail' might be a heap of crap and may never see the light of day again. Ken Read will be loving that!!
AM will be out tomorrow at this rate which is a bit of a shame TBH although I never liked the idea of them being favourites to meet ETNZ.
They've got rig problems, definite control issues, poor tactics and a lack of confidence - not a good mix.
A lot of the Americans on Sailing Anarchy are in denial and still waiting for the big comeback.
Edit: They've got massive rudder issues - there's vibration on the wheel that no-one else has and it simply loses grip at the higher speeds. And I think they can't change it!
The commentary is embarrassing as everyone seems to be making excuses for AM. They just didn’t turn up to the races today. Problems or not that was embarrassing.
Well the American team have a boat that's literally trying to throw them off - I think they're scared of it in a breeze. But it was embarrasing for USA USA.
I noticed the 'bouncing' foil arm on AM too. I can't believe it has some bounce by design, but it's odd that it was so noticeable today and I haven't seen it on any of the other boats.
I'm going for 4-0 to Italy - all wrapped up tomorrow and no racing on Sunday (again). And the US go home without winning a race after being the favourites for the Prada Cup!
But... we've seen comebacks before!
Not sure Ben is available for hire this time though....
Spotted the AM foils bouncing too, I'm sure they will bounce a bit as there's a limit to how stiff you can make them. The outboard wing seemed to be piercing the surface a lot, I guess that's going to make some significant changes in loading as you make and break water flow.
My other though was air in the hydraulic actuator's, if they haven't bled the system properly that would make them bounce.
That Batwing main apart from looking ugly, didn't seem to be working that well.
LR was looking nicely balanced.
The outboard wing seemed to be piercing the surface a lot,
NZ's new foils are used this way - basically tip out the water.
My other though was air in the hydraulic actuator’s, if they haven’t bled the system properly that would make them bounce.
That's what I thought but then decided that a multi-million £ campaign would probably have remembered to bleed the system!
It "may" be planned.... A form of suspension to keep loads stable.
🤷🏻♂️
Was it mentioned in the commentary?
Nope
Ventilating foils are not a good thing to have. Surface piercing foils have a long history of problems, I'm sure they've done their work however.
I didn't notice the main foil wobble until it was pointed out. The vibration from the rudder was very noticible at the wheel though.
Interesting that the experts on the commentary team didn't see any it.
All over for AM.
Oh dear.
That's a shame - I was hoping they'd get at least one win in.
How the mighty are fallen.
So did it look like they simply got the design wrong?
I never liked the look of the boat and they def had a control issue.
Having a technician that had to grind is bonkers as well.
What a shame.
I'm sure there will be much debate and criticism over the next few weeks.
So did it look like they simply got the design wrong?
They've been very fast at times. I think the main problem was that the boat was still broken in some parts.
Having a technician that had to grind is bonkers as well.
True - even if you meant tactician.
I did obvs!!
They’ve been very fast at times.
Yes but it's all relative and hard to tell if it's "real" unless it's boat on boat.
Which is why this is complete rubbish:
However one of the YouTube videos was claiming a noticeable step up in speed at times.
The only people who know are those looking at the numbers back at the base.
Ventilating foils are not a good thing to have. Surface piercing foils have a long history of problems, I’m sure they’ve done their work however.
I seem to recall that Sailrocket 2, world speed record holder, had to re-design its foils to deliberately cavitate (wedge-section with sharp leading edges or something like that) in order to go above ~50kts, but their blog isn't responding. A bit like the way surface-piercing props are designed (or maybe not). And those foils were what I think you mean by "surface piercing". With their extra weight and size, maybe these things are hitting that zone at lower speeds - any hydrodynamicists(?) on here?
So Luna Rossa leaves a trail of buttonholes on the water, looks like they are created by the rudder. They are very regular, what is causing them?
There isn’t a judge boat..the judges do it all on land looking at all the feeds.
Just sayin
So Luna Rossa leaves a trail of buttonholes on the water, looks like they are created by the rudder. They are very regular, what is causing them?
Umm..... Computer graphics!!
😬😂
Leaving a trail of giant M%Ms to piss off the Yanks.
That Cross
I love some of the comments on that clip. The umpires made an on the water call, with all of their data input and experience and knowledge, (correctly in my eyes), then Ken and Nathan showed why in such detail, and others have also explained the rules, there are armchair experts who think that the combined knowledge and judgement of all of these actual experts is still wrong...lol
Interesting in the difference between the skill set of the pros and the non stop gobby shoutings of the commentary team who say nothing more obvious than "Look Ineos has tacked" which we can see and hear the crew discussing on the audio feed just like the bloody commentary team who only seem to have the one job of keeping talking.
idiots.
Interesting in the difference between the skill set of the pros and the non stop gobby shoutings of the commentary team
Can you clarify who these people are?
Are you saying that KR and NO are the latter?!
Pretty sure eddiebaby meant the
non stop gobby shoutings
were coming from the commentators talking all over the action on the live streams who don’t have the benefit of hindsight and are filling airtime (and being largely rubbish IMO)
And the
pros
being Kenny & Nathan in the linked YouTube clip.
Yes. The guys I. The linked clip seem great. The live tv feed guys sound like they’d be just as happy with golf it NASCAR.
It's the same guys doing the race commentary on YouTube.
I've not seen any other feeds though.
It’s the same guys doing the race commentary on YouTube.
I’ve not seen any other feeds though.
I’m amazed by that. All I hear in the race is blather with no insight, just the obvious.
Do we go into the finals carrying the warning over rule infringement (hole in foot of main)?