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“Uncertainty ended, investment unlocked, a nation moving forward once again”
A quick reminder that the “deal” the government has with the EU will last only ELEVEN MONTHS, if Johnson sticks to his word and gives up EU membership in January and refuses to ask for an extension to the transition period. So, uncertainty is not ending when Johnson gets his majority, it is increasing. Keeping EU membership will be crossed off as a possible future, but that does not give any company, or individual, any certainty about what the hell happens when 2020 comes to an end.
any certainty
Neither does labour's plan, to be fair.
I am a centerist politically.
It's nice you think that.
Neither does labour’s plan, to be fair.
Agreed, but they keep emphasising actions that need taking beyond “get Brexit done”…
Oof… radio4 now… I think it’s Cleverly… telling us how Labour didn’t “prepare the UK for a worldwide economic downturn”, while pushing a Conservative manifesto that promises increased spending while also promising not to raise taxes to pay for it. In what way is that preparing us for unseen worldwide economic problems (never mind the blindingly obvious ones they are voluntarily inviting on the UK)?
James Cleverley on R4 now; what a lying dissembler.
Answering different questions to the ones he's being asked.
No questions yet about climate change - and no attempt by Cleverley to introduce it.
There are an awful lot of people that believe the fantasy that the Tories are pushing about sorting Brexit in a few months.
It's exactly what people want to hear, and amazingly it seems to be working
https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1198562499844595712?s=19
All the experts say there’s not a cat in hells chance of getting a trade deal done on that timetable
But then the country showed three years ago that Gove was right... we’ve apparently had enough of ‘experts’.
Once negotiations start Johnson will still be a hostage to the ERG ultras who are demanding the hardest of Brexits, for the UK to become a completely deregulated Singapore off the coast of Europe.
And there’s no way on earth the EU are going to wear that
Ultimately we’re heading for a no deal crash out under a Tory government. The only question is when
So many people having a meltdown that they might have to pay £8.33 more a month tax if they are lucky enough to earn £82k.
The reaction when it dawns on people the sacrifices that will have to be made to avert climate disaster gives me such little hope for the planet.
Depressing.
Just reading in today’s Observer that the Tory’s poll lead has now increased to 19 points.
Which will translate to a whopping majority for Johnson and the most hardline far right government this country has ever seen, intent on doing god only knows what
We really are royally ****ed!
Just reading in today’s Observer that the Tory’s poll lead has now increased to 19 points.
There has been a good spike of 1.5m young people Registering to vote.
If they are remainers mostly and in the right areas then it could make a big difference.
Keep going, it's not over until the 12th.
So let me get this straight, brexit aside, the tory manifesto is basically filling in potholes and curing dementia?
So let me get this straight, brexit aside, the tory manifesto is basically filling in potholes and curing dementia?
Not surprising, nothing to upset the boat like Mays dementia tax. Play it super safe and cure it!
basically filling in potholes and curing dementia?
And no extra tax! Don’t forget that! Bribery. And free parking for patients and staff at hospitals. 🤬 mainly things that are Tory issues in the first place.
To be fair Dazh, I was expecting the solution to poor road surfaces to be “we can’t get on with sorting your street unless we get… Brexit… done”.
Anyway… state fund for potholes - ‘Communism’?
No that's "Nationalise Everything"
That's page 1 of the Communist Instruction manual; seize the means of production.
So… if the state resurfaces your road that isn’t communism, but if it lays fibre under it, that is communism? Or is it that all political parties are proposing infrastructure spending? We have a mixed economy. The state spends money on, and controls, infrastructure roll out and maintenance, whoever is in government.
I would love to know where those 50 000 extra nurses are going to come from. There is a demographic bombshell coming in nursing with a lot of them being close to retirement
Applications from EU nurses has plummeted to 10% of the norm. No new non EU nurses can work here under tory laws.
There are not enough nurses being trained to fill natural wastage and churn let alone replace those retiring and that 50 000 is around the number of vacancies in England IIRC
another demonstration of the patsy questions Johnson gets asked. No one challenged him on this
We'll make our own nurses. The best nurses. Like we had in the good old days. Let's make nursing great again.
They’ll come from the same place as the thousands of GPs the Tories promised before (and never delivered).
for the UK to become a completely deregulated Singapore off the coast of Europe.
Do you ever even bother to look up stuff before you post your hysterical nonsense?
Singapore
Retirement at 62 - UK 67 but increasing to 68
Average annual salary 38k -UK 28k
6th best place to be born in the world - UK 28th
4 years longer life expectancy than UK
Infant mortality rate almost half that of the UK
Regularly features as the best in the world for education
Singaporean passport top in the world for visa free access to other countries
Higher than the UK in the UN development index
Home ownership 90%
AAA credit rating higher than the UK's AA
Pretty decent healthcare
Lots of immigrants
Lots of rules/laws
etc etc etc
Mind you it's political system is based on the UK model so not all perfect 😉
I'm still astonished the Johnson was allowed to dismiss the recent poor NHS performance against it's targets as unprecedented - you bastards have been in power 9 years, these issue are "precedented" as they've been building up year on year as performance struggles, your policies have helped create a lot of these pressures, your policies will actively work against the steps necessary to resolve them and not one bloody interviewer went after him over it!
nick - do those numbers include immigrants / migrant workers? By my understanding they are second class citizens unable to reap those benefits.
so how is Johnson going to do this without tax rises?
On the nurses:
Of the 50,000, 12,000 would come from abroad, 14,000 would be new undergrad students, 5,000 would do degree apprenticeships and 19,000 are nurses who would otherwise have left the profession, but who the Conservatives hope to “retain”.
gonna give us a big pay rise to reatian us? Or simply make it impossible to retire?
so how is Johnson going to do this without tax rises?
Because they're lying, and that is nothing new.
They row back all the time on tax - corporation tax, insurance premium tax and VAT.
What they need to do (spend into the economy) - goes against their ideologoy. So it won't and can't work. It's a sweetner to get through the next few months.
Pot-holes for christ sakes.
(However they all understand the magic money tree really ... they just don't want to educate the electorate about MMT. They can spend before they tax. It's how the money system works.)
James Cleverley on R4 now
James "Cleverly" is proof that God has a weird sense of humour.
Probably better in the "BBC bias" thread, but have you seen the bit on QT where a lady asks BoJo if it's important to tell the truth, and the Beeb edit out the audience laughter ??
Yes, it’s in that thread.
What’s most disappointing is the way so many BBC journalists have closed ranks around it and defended it, rather than even suggest it may have been, in hindsite, at least a tad misleading. Doesn’t look good. Especially after Peter Obourne’s comments about senior BBC staff not wanting to make the PM look bad.
Anyway, the PM doesn’t need help from the BBC, he has his own team massaging the truth…
https://twitter.com/fullfact/status/1197925301319278592?s=21
Chloe westley is head of digital coms for Johnson's election campaign
She's your usual, ex-wife taxpayers alliance, vote leave staffers who accidentally tweeted support for far right Anne-marie waters & works with turning point, the pro trump youth organisations with links to white supremacist etc
So expect the fake news disinformation campaign will only build up before.polling day
Rob Dixon - on the energy firms moving overseas. I have read up a bit more on it and it appears we were both wrong. Its been done as an attempt to thwart nationalisation - not because of the 10% share thing.
Not that it will prevent nationalisation but it will make it harder to do it by paying a fair price rather than the market price.
anyway - apologies to you for getting it a bit wrong and hopefully you will be a little clearer on it. good piece in the Guardian
I’m still astonished the Johnson was allowed to dismiss the recent poor NHS performance against it’s targets as unprecedented – you bastards have been in power 9 years, these issue are “precedented” as they’ve been building up year on year as performance struggles, your policies have helped create a lot of these pressures, your policies will actively work against the steps necessary to resolve them and not one bloody interviewer went after him over it!
They don’t want to fix it, though. They want to run it down to the point where they can start to sell bits of it off to their mates. Total conflict of interest.
^ That clip needs a "Jamie" soundbite from "The Thick Of It"
"Just answer the question you fat ****"
Not surprising, nothing to upset the boat like Mays dementia tax. Play it super safe and cure it!
Well I'd say this time in contrast to May's single policy failure on the dementia tax, this tory manifesto may well be seen as a failure in it's entirety. Never in my life following politics have I seen a manifesto offering in a GE with so little ambition or action promised. Either they want to lose, or they're taking winning for granted. They seem to have calculated that toning down their ambitions will expose labours as non-credible and that could massively backfire.
And labour won't even have to do any dodgy video edits.... (edit: beaten to it, although no harm to have it twice)
https://twitter.com/gully_burrows/status/1198617752514244614?s=20
Just reading in today’s Observer that the Tory’s poll lead has now increased to 19 points.
What can you do Binners?
I can only accept that I'm out of time.
Ah well, better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
Time for a bit of subversion.
“ Not that it will prevent nationalisation but it will make it harder to do it by paying a fair price rather than the market price.”
Hold on TJ - weren’t you telling us a few threads ago that Labour’s plans wouldn’t result in any companies or shareholders being out of pocket?
If the Labour loons will now be forced to pay fair market price for the things they take / steal, that will mean that shareholders (mostly held by pension funds - mostly impacting people not the toady old hedge funds etc) will now receive more than they would have done. Which is good.
Even this is bobbins though. The cost of nationalising the water industry alone is estimated at £160b - which equates to £5280 government debt per household. If they made water free for ten years people would still be out of pocket - and by the time the unions have got control water will be more expensive than it is now and we’ll also have to chip in for the capital investment required.
I can only accept that I’m out of time.
Ah well, better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
Honestly, the amount of people undecided or who just haven't even started paying attention yet is more than you think. That's also topped up with people who don't really care either way.
There's still time to explain to these people the situation.
Rob 0 you are still conflating nationalisation of strategic monopolies with the 10% shares to workers.
Utter Bobbins on nationalisation BTW - who do you think pays for investment now? Privatised monopolies are more expensive - they have to be. additional bureaucracy and shareholder profits
Nationalised we get the profits. Now if its a good investment for private money its also a good investment for public money. You cannot have it both ways.
Edit - and government can borrow money much more cheaply than private companies.
With that I am back out of politcs thread for a while. Dipping in and out is the only way I can preserve my sanity so much nonsense is spoken particularly the right wingers who do not realise how right wing they are
we’ll also have to chip in for the capital investment required.
we already do, it's a regulated industry and it's how OFWAT decide what water prices we can be charged based on required infrastructure investment each AMP
The anti nationalisation lobby makes me laugh.
The Tories took utilities that were priceless, things that were classed as basic human rights and run for the benefit of all and sold them for peanuts.
Take profit out of the equation and it's obvious to anyone not blinded by greed that utilities, education, transport should be managed for the good of society.
Remember society?
Not shareholders.
Everyone.
All of us.
Even this is bobbins though. The cost of nationalising the water industry alone is estimated at £160b – which equates to £5280 government debt per household. If they made water free for ten years people would still be out of pocket – and by the time the unions have got control water will be more expensive than it is now and we’ll also have to chip in for the capital investment required.
Water privatisation has been a disaster,a fair chunk of your water bill goes to service the loans the investment firms that own the companies took out.
we have a great comparison, because Scottish Water is nationalised and has far less debt, considerably cheaper bills, better water quality, and less leaks than in England
And this is all a huge improvement, at the time of its formation Scottish Water's infrastructure was the worst in the UK, it's now the best- all this was done by a cheaper nationalised service while the privatised rUK service has seen a decline in water quality, increase inleaks & bills!
Even the FT has been saying the model is broken & customers are being screwed
https://www.ft.com/content/b60e062e-9712-11e8-b67b-b8205561c3fe
English & Welsh customers have been shafted by privatisation & yet johnsons fanboys defend it coz obviously corbyn/nationalisation =bad , whatever the evidence says
Water privatisation looks little more than an organised rip-off
Bills are rising to fund massive shareholder payouts
https://www.ft.com/content/2beee56a-9616-11e7-b83c-9588e51488a0
Welsh water has see a massive turn around since being made a not for profit