**think i might have missread ** its only £0 fee moving to £20 ****
just read that from 1st april 2025 vehicle tax will change, my current run around is £20 a year, looks like its soon gonna be £190 , how much truth to this, i see source is GB news
British Drivers Could Pay £600 More per Year Amid Major Car Tax Changes (msn.com)
"At the moment, the standard rate for 2024 is £190, though this might change in April 2025 depending on inflation.
Zero-emission cars registered between March 1, 2001, and March 31, 2017, will move into the first VED band with a fee, currently set at £20, though this may increase next year."
finally, i see on the government website i can cancel tax / SORN my vehicle. then UnSorn my vehicle by rebuying Tax, you think its an option to SORN late march then rebuy £20 car tax next day ?
Isn't this all speculation and scare-mongering at the minute?
Loads of stories doing the rounds about pay-per-mile being introduced too.
think it's going to £190.. My EVs are going from zero to £190. Which is annoying..
DrP
important to remember this was announced under the previous government nearly 18months ago.
Must suck to be going from 0-190 - but something has to pay for all the missed fuel tax revenue.
my cars going from 0-20 but still uses fossil fuel
About time the big heavy, overpowered and over-tyred EVs start paying their way towards the road damage they're almost certainly causing.
18months ago.
Must suck to be going from 0-190
Even my van accelerates faster than that! It's topped out way before 190 mind
Away from home charging, diesel is also cheaper on fuel.
while that maybe so- it’s going into PE pockets not the gov. The gov wants their slice of pie back
Out of my two colleagues, one has an ev that is moving from 0 to 190. One has a diesel estate that is staying at 35
My ev is moving from 0 to 20 as it’s really old and I’m not sure what my hybrid is doing - I think staying at zero
Its all total nonsense anyway - the sooner we realise that all cars are basically bad for the environment no matter what they run on and just tax by miles driven the better.
@winston True, but anything at the moment about pay-per-mile is RW scaremongering without any basis in fact.
It probably is inevitable but the big difficulty is how do we apply it to discourage short urban car journeys?
Also: VED not tax.
And yet the government service refers to tax not VED
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-exempt-from-vehicle-tax
I guess you charge people more per mile in urban areas or for short journeys in general
Problem is a policy like this has to go hand in hand with a boost in active travel funding so people actually have an alternative - but we all know this simply won’t happen and it will just result in the people who can least afford it paying more.
my diesel 7 seater is staying at £20. Interesting that most newer vehicles are paying 10x as much
whats the difference between duty and tax ?
or is this one of those things where heckles have been raised about cyclists not paying "road"tax and using VED as the alternative naming and now we are getting in a twist about the tax part when in fact it was the implications that it was a tax on the road ?
but anything at the moment about pay-per-mile is RW scaremongering
It's probematic as it would add an admin overhead.. they could just abolish VED alltogether and add the tax onto fuel at point of sale, but that wouldn't work for home charging EV's...
..So I suspect they will just adjust the current bands to include EVs, path of least resistance innit as the system is already in place.
you could run pay-per-mile on EVs as part of the MOT procedure - I imagine most can't be clocked these days. Be a bit of an eye opener if you bought one with 1 months MOT left which had been used as a taxi for the past year though 🙂
Pay per mile just hammers rural dwellers who have no choice to travel further for work, schools, health, goods and services, and provides no disincentive to urban dwellers. Most rural bus services are now dire and often non-existent, and active travel generally prioritises urban areas not between dispersed settlements.
And no we can't all move to the towns and cities and vacate the countryside, there's not enough housing as it is.
Whereas VED doesn’t cover a fraction of the social cost of car ownership and penalises those who try to act responsibly and drive less miles. It disincentivises use of other forms of transport which in turn helps their decline.
About time the big heavy, overpowered and over-tyred EVs start paying their way towards the road damage they’re almost certainly causing.
How heavy do you think they are? Not a patch compared to HGVs!
The naming thing is historic, stuff originally collected by Customs and Excise is often called duty. But Customs and Excise got rolled into Inland Revenue to form Revenue and Customs. This may have been to do with Customs and Excise being shambolic and naughty.
More use specific taxes tend to be branded duty eg booze tax, airport tax, insurance premium tax, arse scratching stick tax and so on. None of them are hypothecated, that is the money is earmarked for a specific use, so tax is an appropriate way to describe them whatever the branding.
Of course the specific taxes can be adjusted to achieve specific social objectives more easily than the more general ones, for example public health the environment etc, with a dose of wealth redistribution thrown in if you wish.
If it looks like a tax and quacks like a tax...
Pay per mile just hammers rural dwellers who have no choice to travel further for work, schools, health, goods and services, and provides no disincentive to urban dwellers. Most rural bus services are now dire and often non-existent, and active travel generally prioritises urban areas not between dispersed settlements.
I have no clue what the 'correct' solution to all this is, but fwiw when I think 'I wish people drove less' I'm not thinking of the people you're describing above. I'm thinking of the twerps driving gigantic range rovers from their house at one end of town to the shops in the middle of town on a bright sunny day when you could just walk across the common, and then having the sheer brass to complain about having to maybe possibly pay for parking.
Utter losers.
Be interested to know how they'd bring in road pricing/pay by mile as I'm pretty sure odometers* are even more easily tricked than they used to be & to tax after the event would be tricky.
If weight was a factor of ved then my motorbikes should be weigh cheaper per annum...
* Dodgy sensor means one of my bikes speedo & odometer rarely works.
we all know how well smart metres in houses have been, bring in a smart metre for cars ??
its not a anti cyclist 'don't pay road tax' discussion'
i clearly stated "Vehicle Tax" in the header :0)
Be interested to know how they’d bring in road pricing/pay by mile as I’m pretty sure odometers* are even more easily tricked than they used to be & to tax after the event would be tricky.
I think both could be wrapped into your MOT. Want to drive the car another year? Its £50 for the inspection and 2p per mile you've covered since the last check. Would raise broadly the same amount (assuming an average milage of 10k miles) as today.
sure, when the car gets binned you lose the last year's income (as no MOT on being scrapped), and you could maybe clock the thing, but tbh there's much more money to be made in improved residuals (which could be ~£10k more on a low milage car vs a high milage car at 5 years old), than there is in dodging £200/year in tax - I suspect anyone who wants to clock their cars is already doing it (and in the extreme minority, like red diesel users)
About time the big heavy, overpowered and over-tyred EVs start paying their way towards the road damage they’re almost certainly causing.
Which would be great if they were heavier than all other cars and if VED paid for roads.
whatyadoinsucka
Free Member
we all know how well smart metres in houses have been, bring in a smart metre for cars ??
its not a anti cyclist ‘don’t pay road tax’ discussion’
i clearly stated “Vehicle Tax” in the header :0)
True.. That's why I think the only practical way would be to integrate EVs into the current VED/tax model in a fair and balanced way.
EVs are only going to get more popular so to not charge them anything will leave a huge black hole in tax revenue that would have to be clawed back by some other means of general taxation... Which would then penalize everyone, including people who may not even own a car.. so that would cause an uproar, and round and round we go.
whats the difference between duty and tax ?
Duty is generally a fixed amount, whereas tax is generally a percentage.
Duty is generally a fixed amount, whereas tax is generally a percentage.
It's basically just semantics for the purpose of this discussion I think..
I think both could be wrapped into your MOT. Want to drive the car another year? Its £50 for the inspection and 2p per mile you’ve covered since the last check. Would raise broadly the same amount (assuming an average milage of 10k miles) as today.
google milage correction services.
not many cars they cant do.
Blackbox technology would have to improve somewhat also for that to be viable.
Duty is generally a fixed amount, whereas tax is generally a percentage.
so it really is
one of those things where heckles have been raised about cyclists not paying “road”tax and using VED as the alternative naming and now we are getting in a twist about the tax part when in fact it was the implications that it was a tax on the road ?
you could run pay-per-mile on EVs as part of the MOT procedure – I imagine most can’t be clocked these days.
If you google "mileage correction service" you get a remarkable number of businesses for what should be a pretty rare need. A cynic might connect the number of companies and the boom in lease/pcp deals which apply hefty penalties if you go over the x miles per year.
It probably is inevitable but the big difficulty is how do we apply it to discourage short urban car journeys?
Very easily if it's done by a properly tracked pay per mile system. Just have a minimum charge per journey.
If you google “mileage correction service” you get a remarkable number of businesses for what should be a pretty rare need. A cynic might connect the number of companies and the boom in lease/pcp deals which apply hefty penalties if you go over the x miles per year.
they can often update the display but for most cars the true milage is a quick pull on the odbc port away. Sure thats a bit more work for the MOT chap, but any of these options would be.
they can often update the display but for most cars the true milage is a quick pull on the odbc port away.
Not seen the Orly meme for a while but I feel it's apt here
Yeah there would be too many hacks for that... From hacking the ECU itself to simply disconnecting sensors or fitting sensors that under read /miss report to the ECU etc..
It would never work and would be a recipe for disaster.
Not only that I have 4 different mfg knock off dealer level diagnostics and all have the milage in a different ECU and this needs different tools and skills required to find the milage.
Your multi mfg OBD2 protocol reader won't be seeing your milage -i have 5 or 6 of those also from over the years and cars
And given the mots in ability to see a deleted emissions control.....I don't hold out much hope on your dream.
And add to that 2 of my current cars don't even have OBD2
Is this for new cars or applied retrospectively to older vehicles? I was always under the impression taxes were fixed for given years. Same model of my car is in different tax bracket for different years despite being identical in build and emissions output.
Pay-per-mile is the correct way to go for EVs imo, which is already applied to fossil fuel vehicles to a degree.
Which would be great if they were heavier than all other cars
Nobody said they were. They are heavier than an IC equivalent though.
was always under the impression taxes were fixed for given years
Being applied retrospectivly in many cases complete abolishment of the 0 rated bracket.
My car's a December 2016 model and is free to tax (going up to 20 quid) An april 2017 model of the same car with the same engine in the same trim is 190 quid a year ...
Is this for new cars or applied retrospectively to older vehicles?
Generally these sorts of rule are not retrospective in order to avoid penalizing people who already own 'the car', but we've not seen the autumn budget yet, so it's all a bit of conjecture.
but we’ve not seen the autumn budget yet, so it’s all a bit of conjecture.
How so ? It's been planned for April 25 for at least 18 months.
What has been left wide open is room for it to increase by more in the 2024 budget.
