I’m all for blanket 20mph in residential areas
Dont forget that London ULEZ extension is being done by Labour, which the public don’t appear to be happy with. That encourages safer cars = safer roads
Don’t forget that Wales is a Labour government too, and many don’t appear happy with their 20mph.
so we have a Labour people trying to make roads safer/cleaner but the public don’t appear to want that. This isn’t just people who would vote conservative, its people who would have voted Labour too
So we have Labour voters who will now not vote Labour, and conservative MP’s actually being more clever than Starmer who just normally says the direct opposite to the conservatives with no direction as to what he would do differently
I wonder if an approach to road safety might be to remind drivers that people on bikes, pedestrians and other road users are people with family's and people who will miss them.
It's too easy for drivers other road users as the enemy. Cyclists have been dehumanised by all the click bait headlines maybe its time to change this perception.
@FunkyDunc a vocal minority on SoMe =/= the public though.
When folk are polled on this the majority are in favour of 20 mph and LTZs
Bruce - Edinburgh buses have adverts on them that say " give cyclists like Gary room" with a picture of a bloke on a bike ( not exact words) this is an attempt to show they are people not " a cyclist"
They had a big campaign telling us all about how motorcyclists are real people and vulnerable and all. Nothing for cyclists though.
You mean people on bicycles shirley?
Person on a bike is a cyclist.
Person driving a car is a motorist but also potentially more dangerous.
Scotland varies greatly. Glasgow I find bad for cycling. maybe biased cos I was on the end of a really nasty road rager there a few weeks ago. Edinburgh seems to have a split personality on this. Majority of car drivers courteous and we have extremely well trained bus drivers who are great with cyclists but a fair few car drivers who try to run you off the road especially the school run drivers Highlands are good.
Person on a bike is a cyclist.
Person driving a car is a motorist but also potentially more dangerous.
The point being 'person' in all instances.
The labels aren't really the hill to die on but I do prefer to talk about "people on bikes/walking/in cars" rather than use the shorthand (admittedly common) terms, precisely because it draws attention to their humanity for the benefit of "Mr and Ms angry impatient ****hole".
Carefully chosen language is a tool with using when you're trying to influence people with pretty entrenched views.
For some reason given it is a great place to visit otherwise, I have had many more negative experiences on a bike in Glasgow than anywhere else in Scotland.
I don't think driving in a city brings out the best in a lot of people.
Manchester is not great either, but when you live somewhere you know how to avoid the places which are really scarey.
Interestingly enough I managed to watch some of lil' Rishi's interview with Laura K a minute ago. He was banging the drum for the poor beleaguered person in a car (see what I did there). He drew the topic onto 20mph zones, looking to condemn them in Wales as part of the "war on drivers" and then admitted that any decisions on 20/LTZs would be the choice of local authorities...
I can't help thinking this election cycle is going to be extra toxic for those of us who don't have a raging boner for automotive transport, but at the same time nothing much is actually going to change, it's too much effort for them to really legislate bicycles off the roads, or activly block every local authority trying to control dangerous traffic or implement active travel plans, but the rhetoric and propaganda is going to be ratcheting up more and more as we approach polling day.
That wafer-thin margin in Uxbridge really has a lot to answer for, it's defined a main Tory battleground for the next 18 months and given them a wedge issue that's probably not going to help them win. But as a result it's going to make the roads angrier, slightly more dangerous place for everyone...
But as a result it’s going to make the roads angrier, slightly more dangerous place for everyone…
TBH that seems to be an ongoing process, with or without government policy changes.
We met an English guy (Southerner about 60) on a campsite in Austria the other week. He said all of our road related problems were due to not charging foreign truck drivers to use our roads. Apparently they're dangerous, cause all of the potholes and don't pay road tax
🤦♂️
In that case it must be electric car drivers as well, they pat no car tax or fuel duty.
Freeloaders🤪
I live in Wales and had to go to Birmingham for work yesterday, I've always found the driving there very aggresive, I was doing 26mph up a residential street, cars both sides etc, and had a car right up my arse flashing me and trying to force me to go faster, thirty seconds later he turned off and in to his drive, he was at least sixty, I just don't get some people.
Anyone tailgates me on the rare occasions I am driving I just slow down to compensate for the lack of separation between the cars and to give me more reaction time if any hazards appear.
Just returned to Wales after a 2 month stay in our US home and cannot believe how quiet our city centre apartment is. Normally we're woken every night by speeding chavs racing up the hill outside our house - a total contrast to the peace and quiet of the North Georgia mountains. I know a lot of local folks here aren't in favour but the 20mph speed limit definitely has a thumbs up from me. This mornings grocery run around town to restock was so much more relaxing and I'm actually looking forward to a local bike ride later - I normally hate riding on the road.
Our local facebook page is full of outraged gammons and women saying they are going to 'leave' this lovely place they live in, because the council wants to change the road layout. This new layout is to benefit cycling people and pedestrians. This scheme may never come to fruition, however the town has been whipped up into a frenzy and I fear the hatred for cycling people is worse than ever.
I personally feel that many small towns will try and follow suit and make their built up areas safer for everyone, but it will mean many more 20 mph zones and NOT putting the motorist first.
I have no issues with a 20mph limit in appropriate built up areas, or 50mph on rural roads for that matter. I doubt it would have any meaningful effect on journey times in the real world anyway.
Interesting point, apparently no road is ever assigned a 50 mph limit when constructed, typically a section of road will be given a 50 limit when there's been a spate of incidents where speed was a factor, very often if there's a junction that's a bit unsighted, or some other features that have resulted in several, serious incidents.
So if you find yourself on a 50 mph stretch of A road and figure you know better, you're just repeating the pattern that got it 'downgraded' originally. Not sure if it's true but an ex-copper friend reckoned that if setting a 50 limit doesn't work and dickhead keep crashing, LAs can consider applying a 40...
typically a section of road will be given a 50 limit when there’s been a spate of incidents where speed was a factor, very often if there’s a junction that’s a bit unsighted, or some other features that have resulted in several, serious incidents.
Also can be for noise or emissions reasons in some places.
@jamze Sounds like you need a sniper to deal with the egregious speeders. Shot while leaving the built up area to avoid any damage to housing or residents.
The local Facebook group will probably be the ravings of a vocal minority. They might whip up some extra cycling hatred but their thoughts are not the thoughts of the majority of the residents. Your town might be improved if they leave. This is the reason I don't have a Facebook account, what you don't know about doesn't bother you.
No issue with 20mph zones.
What I would say (and this isn’t a bad thing) is just how slow 20mph feels in a car in some circumstances, ie hitting a 20mph zone after a 60mph zone. I’m constantly checking my Speedo as it feel like I’m doing about 10mph, especially when it inevitably ends up with a huge number of cars ending up queuing up behind
It isn’t helped by fact my cruise control doesn’t even work below 20mph so I have to rely far more on the speedo. Which inevitably leads to me actually spending less time with my eyes on the road ahead!
as with anything however, the issue is really being dictated not by whether it makes road s safer, but by whether it’s a vote winner or not for the government
Our local facebook page is full of outraged gammons and women saying they are going to ‘leave’ this lovely place they live in, because the council wants to change the road layout.
Well that would be a win for everyone else.
@jamze Sounds like you need a sniper to deal with the egregious speeders. Shot while leaving the built up area to avoid any damage to housing or residents
All in hand. Our parish council are on a mission with their speedwatch group. Double figures reported to the police every month I think, which do seem to get tickets. There was a 3 month amnesty after the 20mph limit came in, so last month they were back out with their gun. Will be interesting to see what the numbers were.
The village is noticeably nicer to walk about since the 20mph, so thumbs up from me.
A couple of days ago on my bike I was approaching a couple of coppers with a hand held speed gun.
"Hang on I'll just speed up" I quipped.
"The ticket's in the post" came the cheery riposte.
“I think this is quite romantic about our equally car-brained cousins across La Manche. Half of all new cars are SUVs across the EU, and that’s pretty much identical to the UK, for example.”
I was quite surprised by both the enormity of the cars on the ferry to France this summer (and mine isn’t small but it doesn’t seat seven people!) and how the cars in France were generally much smaller and older.
Interesting point, apparently no road is ever assigned a 50 mph limit when constructed, typically a section of road will be given a 50 limit when there’s been a spate of incidents where speed was a factor, very often if there’s a junction that’s a bit unsighted, or some other features that have resulted in several, serious incidents.
A465, Blackrock.
I’m generally in favour of the 20mph limit.
What would really help I think would be allowing the same limit on e-bikes. I think the current 4mph differential is a problem with cars taking ages to overtake or becoming impatient.
It could go some way to getting more people commuting on e-bikes if they knew they could match their cars speeds for a good section of a journey.
ebikes at 20 mph makes sense for skilled riders in traffic yes. However it makes no sense at all in the wider context of european wide cycleways where already the speed differentials between ebikes and non ebikes are wide enough to cause issues.
riding in the netherlands last year on my non ebike doing around 10 - 12 mph I was overtaking folk on non ebikes but having poor overtakes on me from older folk on ebikes. Older folk on ebikes are crashing and injuring themselves at a rate that is concerning in the Netherlands. a higher speed limit would make this worse
some countries have two levels of ebike allowed. 15 mpo and 30(??) mph - a speed pedelec. Maybe we need this split?
So unfortunately this needs to be seen in a much wider context that skilled riders in traffic. You need to look at all riders europe wide
No way. It might be OK on the road but other cyclists have to share cycle lanes with ebikes. Pedestrians and other cyclists have to share paths with ebikes
I'm sure it's not news to anybody that there are as many dicks riding bikes as driving cars. If you want to travel at 20mph pedal harder.
I don't know if other folk with ebikes get this but in all honesty I have to restrain myself from riding like a dick in traffic on my ebike. Its just too easy to ride like a dick
It isn’t helped by fact my cruise control doesn’t even work below 20mph so I have to rely far more on the speedo. Which inevitably leads to me actually spending less time with my eyes on the road ahead
@tpbiker - do you have a speed limiter? I find it easier at low speeds to set the speed limiter in the van. It's really hard to stay at low speed if I don't, think it must be the size of the vehicle that just makes me think I'm going slower than I am....
I'm all for 20mph areas, and proper enforcement of all speed limits in some way.
Faversham and Tonbridge in Kent have 20mph town centre zones. It's quite new so updated evaluations may be a way off
It's interesting that in towns with 20s, the 30s are more strictly adhered to
ads678 +1 Speed limiter seems to be bundled with cruise control and the limiter works in the 20s for me
@tpbiker Nothing to do with the 20s, but how did your recent speed camera concern turn out?
Don’t have a speed limiter in my car. I do find speed perception in bigger cars harder (I also have a much smaller faster car and it’s not such an issue), especially if you go from country road 60 into town. It doesn’t help that every car around you is going over the limit as well!
@timba think I got away with it. Will update the thread!
20mph is not appropriate in all cycle path situations, some of us don't want to travel at 2omph.
Lots of cycle lanes are next to the pavement which is often busy and narrow , there are car parking bays between the road and the cycle path and some cycle lanes loop round the back of bus stops. If you travel quickly you are asking to have an accident.
Ebikers know about the speed limitation and still bought the bike, they can have it derestricted and register, tax and insure it if they want to go faster.
There are enogh problems with delivery bikers and 30mph scooters.
This morning the PM made it clear he will not be putting in anymore 20 mph speed limits.
fortunatly its not in his gift to do so seeing as its local councils decisions unless he enacts legislation to remove that power from councils
