[Closed] 1 in 20 Britons believe the holocaust never happened.

its the guardian so it must be true...

Or, 1 in 20 Britons in the lowest 5% for intellegence.

Of course it's a lot more complex than that in reality, but sometimes it's good to remember that, just as there are plenty of clever people out there, there are also plenty of stupid people.

In other news one in twenty Britons is an arsehole.

If you want to get a real flavour of how ignorant - or stupid - Britain has become, listen to Akala discuss Brexit at 36 mins in:

Hardly surprising.

Conspiracy theorists, idolisation of moronic celebs and post truth politics. It all adds up.

The important quote further down the page

Olivia Marks-Woldman, of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust, said: “I must stress that I don’t think [the poll respondents] are active Holocaust deniers – people who deliberately propagate and disseminate vile distortions. But their ignorance means they are susceptible to myths and distortions.” The Holocaust is taught in schools as part of the history curriculum, but “that might only be one lesson”, she added. “And people who are middle-aged or over may never have been taught about it.”

That poll found that one in three people knew little or nothing about the Holocaust, and an average of 5% said they had never heard of it. In France, 20% of those aged 18-34 said they had never heard of the Holocaust; in Austria, the figure was 12%. A survey in the US last year found that 9% of millennials said they had not heard, or did not think they had heard, of the Holocaust.

Time changes the importance of things we are taught about or how it is retained, for some of these people they may have had minimal history education and not really studied it much, they may know something but not much about it. For many people they have lost a direct reference to that time, when I grew up my grandparents generation lived through the war and the events surrounding it. There area a lot less of those people around these days.

I think they don't teach modern history the way the used to in the 70s/80s, so young people are not as aware of WW1 and WW2

I must admit I thought I was pretty well informed having watched plenty of stuff on the history channels over the years. I did find a lot of my preconceptions were challenged when I visited Auschwitz a couple of years ago. Interestingly I also found myself significantly questioning the way the Holocaust is taught. Basically I'm not surprised at this article but it's a complicated issue.

My lad is 14 and is studying ww1, ww2 and Vietnam in some detail. The research is shocking, but so is that headline, no better than the Daily Fail frankly.

Who is Amala, and why would his opinion on Brexit carry any more weight than some loudmouth in the local boozer?

Theory 1. When asked questions in a survey many people give the silliest or most controversial answer. It's a very British thing to do.

Theory 2. Every time an organisation commissions a survey, that survey always returns results guaranteed to either get publicity for said organisation, or to back up the views of said organisation.

Call me cynical if you like, but these surveys are generally skewed to fit a specific agenda. That said, I do have some level of agreement with the "never heard of it" point of view as the general public's ignorance of history is dreadful. There are a lot of thick people out there (hence Brexit).

However of the people who have heard of it I don't believe for one minute that 5% don't think it ever actually happened. Basically I am a holocaust denier denier.

I sometimes do tours in Mauthausen, Austria. I bring people from Danube cruises on buses round the camp. It's a real eye opener as to how many people have absolutely no idea what went on in these camps.
I can't do many tours a month as it suck up a lot of energy.

Just to say whilst I think the headline is awful I do agree with the sentiments of the article, which is that a better level of education and understanding is needed, both about the holocaust and how the nazis rose to power generally.

In other news one in twenty Britons is an arsehole.

Your figures are way out. It's at least one in two.

a better level of education and understanding is needed, both about the holocaust and how the nazis rose to power generally.

It is, along with more in depth analysis of NI and the origins of the sectarian violence. The history of the US/USSR proxy wars in Afghanistan etc, middle eastern politics and history and the role with west has played in those areas.

There is a lot of history to teach these days.

I think they don’t teach modern history the way the used to in the 70s/80s, so young people are not as aware of WW1 and WW2

My daughters have both learnt about WWI and WWII the eldest in a lot more detail then I was taught.

Who is Amala, and why would his opinion on Brexit carry any more weight than some loudmouth in the local boozer?

He's a very erudite and thoughtful activist
Don't always agree 100% with him, but would much rather he had a platform than Gaz from Maidstone

Who is Amala... ....than some loudmouth in the local boozer?

edit: beaten to it by SoY. Its of interest to me that CZ perhaps fell for the very image related conclusion that Akala often discusses at length.

I'm with drac and timbog - don't drag teaching of "youth of today" into this.

Eldest just finished history gcse and it was impressively thorough. Very heavy on remembering facts across a wide range of events, but also a big emphasis (half the exam marks) on understanding the context and implications, what happened as a result etc.

I’m with drac and timbog – don’t drag teaching of “youth of today” into this.

I agree, every school I've worked in has covered WWII in detail including the Holocaust.

In fact, there is so much about WWII in the history curriculum that I've heard people referring to the 'nazification' of history teaching!

I’m with drac and timbog – don’t drag teaching of “youth of today” into this.

It raises the question about who should be teaching our kids and what they should be learning. School teachers are vital to our kids development however as a parent I feel that perhaps some responsibility should rest with me with regards to informing my own children about how humanity can inflict the most heinous atrocity upon itself within living memory.

Saying that our children don't know about the Holocaust because they are not being told about it at school is lazy IMO.

Questioning the standard of secondary education is a red herring and an easy target. Slack jr is in his final gcse year and the history curriculum is as detailed as I remember it from the ‘70’s.

The relevant questions to be asked in response to the sensationalised headline are, how many people were questioned? What demographic ranges were they?

There is a lot of history to teach these days.

😂😂😂 Classic. About 40 more years than when I learnt it and in terms of humankind, 2.5 million years is 2.5 million years!

I used to work with a guy who said "did the Holocaust really happen though? After all, there's no real evidence" cue half an hour of me calling him a ****ing moron. This guy wasn't a kid, he'll now be in his late forties/early fifties.
I think people underestimate how monumentally stupid some people are, flat earthers......

Classic. About 40 more years than when I learnt it

Whoosh

That poll found that one in three people knew little or nothing about the Holocaust, and an average of 5% said they had never heard of it.

So thats 1 in 20. If you've not heard of it you couldn't say you believe or not believe.
Certainly here in Wales the Holocaust is covered in great detail in school. Both of mine have a full knowledge of events, I'm not sure how much more schools could do.

😂😂😂 Classic. About 40 more years than when I learnt it and in terms of humankind, 2.5 million years is 2.5 million years!

Well given our current NI Sec doesn't understand the reasons behind the tensions out there, that is a key bit of history not being covered from the last 40 years. The end of the cold war and the changing face of Europe along with the middle east would put the current world in a lot of context for young people.

Somewhat less than the percentage of Europeans who know little or nothing about it:

https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2018-11/cnn-studie-holocaust-antisemitismus-deutsche-geschichte-wissen-bildung

95% of the pop UK population believe in the Holocaust. That seems quite high. More would be better but it's never going to be 100%.

Compared to 38% of Americans think humans were put on earth in their current form in the last 10000

Or 91.2% have had the MMR jab by the age of 2. That will never be 100% as some can't have it. So they rely on the need protection, which we are losing

In other news one in twenty Britons is an arsehole.

****ing hell that's generous. theres always 2 things that bother me in the reporting of the holocaust, that it was perpetrated by "nazi's" and the victims were jewish. It was perpetrated mostly by germans and their allies though the majority of the victims were jewish 5 million "undesirables" were also slaughtered starved to death and gassed.

I agree, every school I’ve worked in has covered WWII in detail including the Holocaust.

We never covered it in History at school (80s), it was all Elizabethan stuff, Spanish Armarda, Hency VIII's wives. Didn't touch on WWI or II at all.

Learnt more from watching The World At War, then visiting Auschwitz and the reading Primo Levi's books (did the last two in the wrong order though).

I think they don’t teach modern history the way the used to in the 70s/80s, so young people are not as aware of WW1 and WW2

Nah, I think it’s the other way around. When I was in high school 88-95 it wasn’t taught. We did The Romans, Tudors and Stone Age stuff etc. I guess it was thought that it was recent enough not to need teaching. My Son learnt about it in year 6 onwards.

In other news one in twenty Britons is an arsehole.

A fairer evaluation would be that about 5% of Britons are unaware of something that happened 70+ years ago. There’s no smoking gun here.

I would imagine the figure would be higher in most other countries, not because they’re all horrible anti-semites, but we put more onus on the world wars than most other western countries.

Exactly P-Jay

A trip around the Australian War Museum was a massive eye opener to parts of WW1/WW2 and Vietnam that I wasn't really aware of, whole events and pivotal moments I would have not been able to reference before I saw it there.

I can understand why people want to keep it front and centre in the minds of people but at times that is done at the expense of other very important moments in history (particularly the ones that are not so flattering to the UK)

Agree with footflaps, although I had a passion for learning about ww1 and ww2 as a kid that has continued to today, I didn’t learn any at school at all, started school in ‘81.
I can’t help but think the questions are going to practically guarantee a negative headline, that was of course the purpose.
However, it wouldn’t be at all surprising to learn that the knowledge was literally dying out. I’ve spoken to many ww2 soldiers, airman, merchant navy, and a few German ones as well (I used to fly with a ME110 pilot who was shot down the Battle of Britain), I guarantee that my children will never be able to do this, hence it will become less likely that people will ‘hear’ about it.

Sad but true. 95% believe, and 5% are a mixture of conspiracy theorists, ***ktards or right-wing racists looking to rewrite history

I can understand why people want to keep it front and centre in the minds of people but at times that is done at the expense of other very important moments in history (particularly the ones that are not so flattering to the UK)

I agree. My kids seem to be taught about the Holocaust endlessly, and always in terms of 6m Jewish dead. Never a mention about the many millions of others killed. I’ve had quite a few chats with my 15 yr old about it. I recently mentioned the battle of Cable Street when we were talking about the rise of fascism. She was completely shocked when I showed her a YouTube clip, demanding to know why it’s not talked about in school. I wonder why? For the same reasons as the history of British imperialism isn’t taught, I’d guess.

timbog160
Just to say whilst I think the headline is awful I do agree with the sentiments of the article, which is that a better level of education and understanding is needed, both about the holocaust and how the nazis rose to power generally.

I'd rather they'd teach how a decent and civilised people can be manoeuvred into supporting a govt that does that, and how it is too late once you're there.

If you look at the eugenics pogrom going on the UK against the weak and vulnerable, we're almost there. We've even got neo-concentration camps for immigrants. And yet most people in this country are decent and civilised.

An uncle of mine was an ambulance driver during ww2.He was with the Americans when they got to one of the eastern Europeans concentration camps. He said the bodies were piled up like terraced houses ☹️. We didn't cover it at school in the 80s. Really should have though. It needs to be. People can learn from other peoples mistakes.

Sad but true. 95% believe, and 5% are a mixture of conspiracy theorists, ***ktards or right-wing racists looking to rewrite history

Nope. 95% are aware of it, 5% are not.

If it wasn’t for the inflammatory headline, most people presented with the facts would consider it as close to ‘everyone’ as to make no difference.

Consider also that 2.5% of the population have learning difficulties.

Studies suggest that 7%-9% of the UK are functionally illiterate.

Also consider that your real hard core right-wing denier might be a member of the BNP, but even at their height in 2008 (before the likes of UKIP and EDF offered a more mainstream alternative) their membership was around 12k - or about 0.01 of the population.

People can learn from other peoples mistakes

Yes, maybe start with something close to home like a million dead Irish?

I wonder how much of this has to do with being able to filter out news that you don’t want to hear?
Sachenshausen is one of the grimmest places i have ever visited. Whilst it wasn’t a death camp, many died there ... and the Soviet’s kept it going until the mid 50s.

I heard reported somewhere (and have no proof per se) that 60% of Austrians still believe Adolf was a good leader.
And Munich has a very right wing agenda not far under the surface.
5% in the Uk doesn’t surprise me ... but I I would guess 20% also can’t tell you who fought on which side in WW 2

I'd be interested to see how the poll was worded and the sample group.

I'd imagine the real figure is significantly lower.

JP

I’d rather they’d teach how a decent and civilised people can be manoeuvred into supporting a govt that does that, and how it is too late once you’re there.

Well I think they're currently getting a first hand education on how manipulative politicians and governments can be.

Who is Akala, and why would his opinion on Brexit carry any more weight than some loudmouth in the local boozer?

Because he's running the local cub pack?