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Two pages and only one eebers are for lazy people post.
I think there's been two. Typical eebers, too lazy to read properly 😉
perhaps it IS the most important bike of the decade then ^^
I'm not an "eeber" BTW.
I just ride "bikes".
Nice to have a choice.
Typical lazy ebike troll. You need to put more effort in. 😁
@stevextc normally I'd jump at the chance but I'm to Cyprus on Saturday and busy until then.
I find it hard to believe that a bike who's 3rd top reason for being amazing is 'Its not too heavy' will be considered the 'bike of the decade'.
It's just a slightly better bike than some other bikes. Just like another bike in a couple of weeks will be.
^^^ this is a nagging worry for me, My Levo SL is just on 2 yrs old now, it was an expensive bike at the outset and has since had an upgraded fork and AXS shifting and dropper, so a lot of cash in it were it to break outside warranty..
Someone buying aftermarket AXS can (probably) afford to repair it or if they don't want the risk, chop it in - how often do you change bikes?
^^^ probably, but not really the point, I probably change bikes every 3 or 4 years, though I have no idea what the residual value will be on this one, given it'll have a motor that will likely break sometime.
Just because its out of warranty doesnt mean if it breaks it cant be fixed, in the worst case you'll just end up paying for a new motor - (which will then have a warranty).
...you'll just end up paying for a new motor.
Which is what, starting at a thousand quid?
Which is what, starting at a thousand quid?
RRP on the Specialized one I had to buy was £700. They gave me 50% off that in return for them keeping the knackered motor.
Same for a battery.
Which is what, starting at a thousand quid?
yes, but it's an unlikely outcome to have a completely written off motor. A SRAM Eagle AXS rear mech is over £400. You can write off your fork stanchions dropping your bike against a rock - Fox 38 CSU is over £400. Stuff on bikes is expensive.
Who is even buying motorless bikes these days? They have surely gone the way of the dodo.
Fit, adventurous, bikers who like the whole package that mtb brings, not just the easy bits.😙
And good looking too. Did I say good looking...
Seems we’re making a bit of progress.
Two pages and only one eebers are for lazy people post.
Ftfy.
Typical lazy ebike troll. You need to put more effort in.
😁
HTH. I'm on an ee keyboard. Doesn't require as much effort. Can go on for longer. More smiles etc.
( and gets me fitter natch)
A SRAM Eagle AXS rear mech is over £400. You can write off your fork stanchions dropping your bike against a rock – Fox 38 CSU is over £400. Stuff on bikes is expensive.
An AXS mech (on its own) can be had, new, for £250 ish. Wreck a stanchion beyond repair and there are shops that can replace individual ones for a fair bit less than £400.
Not saying it’s cheap, but the figures being discussed here aren’t my experience.
Things that get written off can be covered by bike insurance accidental damage. Not sure if that's the case with motors and batteries.
I’m on an ee keyboard.
It's a shame it can't type a witty reply for you.
Maybe the battery's flat.
Back on topic.
Does anyone really consider what the second hand value might be when buying a bike?
Can't say it's ever influenced my bike choices over the years.
Does anyone really consider what the second hand value might be when buying a bike?
Can’t say it’s ever influenced my bike choices over the years.
A bit, but granted not too much.
What I would say however it that 2nd hand value at 2/3yrs old is a very very good indicator of how desirable a bike is to keep for the long term. Now that is something that interests me greatly. For financial and ethical reasons I want the stuff I buy to have a long life ahead of it - either with me using it, or someone else. If I don't want to keep it (because either their continued ownership represents a reliability risk or pace of change is so rapid that new stuff is some much better to render it redundant) and no one want to buy it (for the same reasons) I just don't see that as a sustainable situation. I know that does not fit with the commercial, profit driven world companies want us to live in, but there you go.
its defo not the most important bike of the decade. its just a new motor like a forza motor.
the Intradrive Motor / gearbox combo in the orange on pinkbike is most definately the most important bike of the decade.
we dont want derailleurs/cassettes anymore on eebs please.
I find it hard to believe that a bike who’s 3rd top reason for being amazing is ‘Its not too heavy’
The only amazing thing about it really, is that it doesn't make your eyeballs spontaneously projectile vomit when you look at it.
Does anyone really consider what the second hand value might be when buying a bike?
Probably not so much when a decent new bike is £3k and you’ll have it for say, four years. You’d probably lose less than £2k over those four years in depreciation. So £500 per year.
But if your fancy e-bike costs £7k new, would it still be worth £3k after four years i.e. £1k per year in depreciation? And if the motor eats itself just after the warranty runs out, you’d potentially be taking a much, much bigger £ hit in either replacement costs or depreciation or both.
I think the cost of ownership changes considerably with e-bike pricing and will make more and more people consider second hand values.
Spend £7k on an Orbea Rise now and what’s it worth in four years? £1k…?
£1k ?
HEre's a 19' that's up for £4000, so they're not exactly dropping through the floor.
Sure you'll lose money, but it won't be worthless.
That advert sort of proves my point though. It’s had a new motor!!!
And I suspect that bike cost >£7k new, so cost of ownership in the region of £5k (or considerably more) for less than three years.
Yeah, I'd not normally be thinking about resale value. Almost ever bike I've bought has been to satisfy a current requirement, one that I didn't see coming to an end. Neither do I change bikes often enough to really think about it. But also I've never doesn't anything like that sort of money on a bike!
For me the high initial purchase price isn’t as problematic as the potential cost of a motor replacement after a year or two, and that remains to be seen.
I think its longer than a 'year or two' as mine is about a year old and without any problems whatsoever and im on a forum for ebikes and that type of thing isnt being reported. Sure some malfunction, but isnt that the same for everything.
As to replacement cost, which is about 800, not even the price of a cracked/broken frame or high end fox fork.
As to replacement cost, which is about 800, not even the price of a cracked/broken frame or high end fox fork.
But you'd face those costs on an e-bike too, so you may have to swallow them all AND the motor if you're unlucky.
To me it's a different (and unaffordable) ownership proposition for e-bikes at the moment.
this costs about high entry costs for ebikes - why do you need a £7k+ ebike? you are going to smash it about and ride it through crap all winter!
there are plenty around 4k now and will be probably less in the sales.
i got mine for £3250. i dont think that is an unreasonable cost. yes its got crap kit but given you`ll do a drivetrain every 6 months, at least, you dont want anything fancy. in a year and a half I have upgraded teh forks (for £250) and changed the freehub and tyres and 3 drivetrains. if i spend on a new motor once the warrenty runs out i still dont think thats too bad given the amount of abuse it gets. Its not fancy or carbon though. (focus jam2)
I find the pricing of things, especially bikes and ebikes,etc unfathomable. I have a habit of doing comparisons, and sometimes its pretty damn stark that you are left wondering how they arrived at the price they have.
Construction of a bike frame, any frame be that alloy, carbon(i accept the manufacturing process of carbon is a bit longer) steel or ti isnt an aerospace level of construction. Its just tubing welded together and for the most part done so robotically.
So how can they ask £2k for a bunch of tubes that collectively have a price of under a hundred quid suddenly become worth £2k. As said, manufacturing costs are minimal, paint int he grand scheme of this is nothing. So to my eyes they're taking something that in reality cost a couple of hundred to build and marking it up several hundred percent.
.
A comparison. Engineering mill. X,Y,Z axis, can be CNC controlled. Thousands of precision produced parts that take considerably longer to produce and to put together and with greater accuracy than a poxy bike frame. An engineering machine weighing 1000kg plus, designed for industrial use spanning decades, priced the same as a specialized s-works carbon ebike frame. It just does not compare, and we'll also find our mill was constructed here or the US, Europe, but our extremely expensive bike frame is mass produced in the far east where wages are considerably lower.
.
I'm sorry Boys and Girls, but the cycling industry is ripping us off royally 😕
I dunno, I agree bikes have got ridiculously expensive. But I think some of that is down to overcomplicating them and adding costs.
Remember when Marzzochi arrived on the scene with what were essentially scaled down motorcycle forks? The compression damper was a shim stack and the rebound was a needle valve. Now look at the cutaway models of the latest RS and Fox products with hundreds of tiny machined parts and oil pathways, etc.
And the segmentation is getting out of hand too. RS has the 35, Pike, Revelation, Lyric and Yari, all with multiple configurations, all occupying the same gnarly trail / enduro market segment.
Forks especially need a Collin Chapman to disrupt the market with a "simplify and add lightness" philosophy.
And I hope shimano's roadmap doesn't include the end of mechanical SLX like they've just done with 105.
So how can they ask £2k
People pay it and they sell out. Why should they charge anything less?
The price of consumer goods is rarely directly linked to what it costs to make, they will charge whatever the market will stand,at present the market seems quite happy to pay the current asking prices.
Personally I can't afford a new bike but as time goes on, and I get more time poor, I completely get the idea of an MTB that I can ride the 6 road miles (most of which is up a steep effing hill) to my local trails without being spent by the time I get there. The trails are on a ridge and I know loads of riders who have converted purely due to the ability to ride more downhill in the time they have available. I've definitely cut a ride short because I won't have time to do the down and then the up and get back in time.
However, whilst the specs suggest the Small will fit a rider sized 5'0.2" - 5'5.6", 29" wheels mean I'm riding a clown bike! I have enough trouble popping my 650B that weighs 10lbs less, I dread to think what this would be like.
In case you're wondering, I may be protesting too much, I really want one but won't be test riding one in case I realise how good they are and how much all my concerns are moot!
Forks especially need a Collin Chapman to disrupt the market with a “simplify and add lightness” philosophy.
Colin Chapman's ideal was also to design a vehicle that was no more resilient than it needed to be to cross the finish line and then fall to bits. 🤣
Colin Chapman’s ideal was also to design a vehicle that was no more resilient than it needed to be to cross the finish line and then fall to bits.
Wasn’t driver safety somewhere below ‘what colour is it’ on the priority list too?
Great idea for a follow-up article: "20 reasons why the Trek Fuel EXe is NOT the most-important bike of the decade".
Just cut and paste the comments from here. Job jobbed.
Further editorial consultancy services are available for a very reasonable day rate.
ianc
^^^ this is a nagging worry for me, My Levo SL is just on 2 yrs old now, it was an expensive bike at the outset and has since had an upgraded fork and AXS shifting and dropper, so a lot of cash in it were it to break outside warranty..
I'm trying to rationalise this myself... at least comparing to my real bike strategies but I've not managed to make it make sense to me.
I guess on one hand your fork, dropper etc. is transferrable ... and there might already be or might be in the future a way to put a newer (presumably smaller) motor into the same space with an after market adapter or on the other hand you view the frame, motor, battery and electronics as basically disposable? Currently I think more or less any battery can be rebuilt but how long until they do some system (like ink cartridges on some printers) to pair cells with the BMS so you can't just replace them?
Dunno on one hand maybe buying the absolute cheapest bike in a range and just transfer your other stuff onto it is one way? Perhaps treat the wheels as a spare set for fast rolling tyres if they are terrible ?
At the back of my mind the last 2 cars I scrapped were both basically electronics. There was nothing majorly wrong mechanically with either but noone could really put a finger on it and say "spend this much and it will fix the electronic faults"
dyna-ti
As to replacement cost, which is about 800, not even the price of a cracked/broken frame or high end fox fork.
It's a big difference though... even my "best bike" cost me £350 for the frame and that was £100 what I would have paid had it not been my birthday and my kid thinking it was cool I got the same frame as he has ... (and it came with bling headset and BB)
As for forks ... most of mine are 2015/16 with various upgrades I've got a newer Lyrik ultimate but that was about £600 but assuming it somehow broke beyond repair I'd just be able to stick on another set of forks. My mate just got a bike for his kid with a Lyrik where the stanchions were screwed but £250 for a brand new Yari and 1/2 hour swapping the damper and airshafts over fixed that..
The same options don't exist for motors though... and the bike is essentially a brick without one.
@doomanic
Hope cyprus was good, had a blast in FOD (as usual) but also went further afield than I usually do... still more or less in the "Cannop Triangle" (defined by roads) but found way more stuff.
Yeah, very much so.
To quote the great man:
A racing car has only ONE objective: to WIN motor races. If it does not do this it is nothing but a waste of time, money, and effort.
This may sound obvious but remember it does not matter how clever it is, or how inexpensive, or how easy to maintain, or even how safe, if it does not consistantly win it is NOTHING!
Having established this what do we have to do to make it win:
(i) Simply stated it must firstly be capable of lapping a racing circuit quicker than any other car, with the least possible skill from the driver, and doing it long enough to finish the race.
(ii) After this, and only after this, and with absolutely no compromising of objective (2)(i) one has to consider how expensive it is, how simple, how safe, & how easy to maintain, etc. NONE of these aspects must detract one iota from (2)(i). “Good enough” is just NOT good enough to win and keep winning.
Apologies for the diversion... 😉
A comparison. Engineering mill. X,Y,Z axis, can be CNC controlled. Thousands of precision produced parts that take considerably longer to produce and to put together and with greater accuracy than a poxy bike frame. An engineering machine weighing 1000kg plus, designed for industrial use spanning decades, priced the same as a specialized s-works carbon ebike frame.
On what planet can you buy a new 3 axis machine centre for £6.5k? Does that include all the tooling you’ll need?
@Stevextc Cyprus is awesome thanks, nice and cool compared to the UK… 😂
Glad hear you had fun at FoD, next time you’re coming over give me a shout.
doomanic
Cyprus is awesome thanks, nice and cool compared to the UK… 😂
Did you get up to Troodos ? Always seem to be nice and cool compared to the lowlands.
I’m up there now, did Caledonian Falls early this morning and Kakopetria afterwards. Just finishing off a picnic before driving down to the beach.
I spent a couple of weekends on the Singletrack review bike… it is remarkably quiet and rather brilliant but there buts. Wait for Benji to publish his more thorough and informed thoughts.
The colour… that really should be called Dijon Custard.
When's the review out?
I really like the look of the Trek EXE, the motor technology seems very clever and it just looks like a nice mountain bike.