Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday

Will be good to have a full team tonight on that course.

I’m a Cat B, so will I be out of my depth entering the A race?

Great, pending a work call, I’m in! In on Zwift. ZP seems to be temporarily down so I’ll change the name later. See you guys later (Paino)

ZwiftPower appears to be well and truly borked today, is that going to affect the results?
I'm now tentative whether I'll make it this evening due to other commitments, need to see if I have time for everything.

I've completed a time trial with the wrong tag and they have allocated it to the right one after a post race e-mail - they seem pretty laid back about it all.

I will try the discord server, but normally just end up transmitting my fan noise, so will keep my mike off when possible. I'm expecting a team leader/ responsible adult to shout a name to go on the front, either Ant or Haloric whichever comes to mind, unless there is some other system !.

As a larger lad I will suffer on any rises, but should be able to get back on.

Team kit ?.

ZP being down is possibly due to the seamless integration with Zwift coming in to play...

ZP is back up so should be able to get the tags sorted.

We use the bumblebee kit.

Someone will do the countdown on the discord server so you don’t need to worry

We aren’t that co-ordinated to take goes at pulling!

I'm in.

Somethings come up & I'll have to bail out, apologies! Looks like they'll be a good team for tonight though, definitely be back next week!!

That was a tough one tonight but good to have such a strong team. Set new PRs for 40 mins - that was right on the limit for me tonight. Cheers for the encouragement Phil - I could have easily given up. You weren’t a Rugby coach in the past were you?

Great effort all - we didn’t get passed and got past 4 or 5 teams and pretty much held together the whole way once I got back on!

Cheers guys, enjoyed that. First TTT, and first use of the discord so excuse my lack of muting!
Thought we held it together really well. Massive turns on the front by Phil. Chapeau.
One question though....Is there any way of warming up in the pen? Paino.

We were looking pretty good but when we hit that climb and the pace went from 350ish to 550ish I knew that was going to be the beginning of the yo-yo'ing end so just called it straight away.

Phil is our Stannard

There is a way of warming up in the pen - but its not for the faint of fingers:

See 'keeping warm' here: https://wtrl.racing/ttt/TTT-Rules-and-Info.php
I've seen a number of riders coast through the start because they weren't in the pairing screen somehow.

Personally I get off the bike and stretch/yoga like for a while.

Thanks for the ride - right on my limit I think.

--
Ant

@ivandobski - hills are the death of teamwork !.

I hope I didn't contribute to the dropping out - for whatever reason I cannot hold a consistent pace up a hill, the technique that works for me on short hills is to hit them very hard at the bottom, hold it as long as I can, and then cruise at the top until we regroup, eg on the rise out of the tube line I was first over the top whilst being one of the weaker riders in the group overall, but I got some recovery time.

I've found that on group rides if you are rider who comes over the top last you do not generally get any recovery - because everyone is kind of waiting for you, and that leads to you being dead after the hill and struggling for a while.

I prefer to go harder initially and get a little recovery time.

Better obvs would be to organise and agree before hand to give the last over the top riders some recovery time if they need it before the pace goes back up, that way you know you are going to get back on without immediately getting dropped again.

One other thing is that we were never lined out very often, which is the most efficient use of effort, but very difficult to do. You need to have a nominated line order and a 2m gap, so everyone knows where they should be. That takes practice at lower power levels before you can do it at higher levels.

That said - last night was probably the quickest I've ridden - so what do I know !.

hills are the death of teamwork !.

Well next week will be fun then, 2 laps of Harrogate world's circuit.

One other thing is that we were never lined out very often, which is the most efficient use of effort,

Way back in the general zwift racing thread someone linked an article on Zwift insider about this.

https://zwiftinsider.com/speed-tests-ttt/

Overall its the best use of effort (saving about 8% overall W) but for a given speed you need a lot more effort (13% more from the front rider) on the front and a lot more organisation.

Any gapping and having to catch back on and it very quickly stops paying dividend.

More importantly though it also requires a bit more serious prep and practice which tends to detract from the fun a bit.

Thanks for the ride guys, thought we were smashing it yesterday, the extra numbers helped, we passed lots of teams, perhaps a fringe benefit of being in Pen A but much nicer than being passed by other teams. I had a bit of a tough patch from 20-30 mins ish, I perhaps need to eat more in the afternoon but despite that my fitness actually seems to be improving slightly, which is a little surprising considering my low training volume 🙂

Yes to get better times the way to go about it would be to be more organised into a paceline as that is much more efficient than having several riders churning at the front, also setting pace as being conservative at the start and having negative splits is much better than being a bit too keen at the start and having gaps/positive splits towards the end. It'd need a race strategy/roles planned in advance though e.g. whose taking turns on the front and in what order, target pace for each sector of the race.

That said it makes everything a bit serious and also the best laid plans go to waste and more planning needs more comms. during the race to keep things on track.

Yesterday was a good ride. I thought we smashed it too.

I think we could have stayed with @ivandobski for longer, to the end really once it flattened again, but he knew how @Phil56 would react to him dropping off so pulled the plug! There's chat in the other thread about it being too hard for C riders, but the whole point of the event is to mix categories, so it might be worth making a concerted effort (in advance, just by chatting it over) to get everyone to the finish.

We've talked about the pro's and con's of paceline v blob before. I agree with @dangeourbrain - even if it is faster the costs in terms of preparation, taking it too seriously etc outweigh the benefits. Our line up changes each week. Our main obstacle is keeping the mix of riders happy. It seems to work well for us to informally contribute what we can. It got us in the premier league one week as well, so it can't be that bad.

My picture froze near the end. I thought I had tried to keep pedalling, but the initial hesitation did for me and by the time I pulled the cable and went back to the laptop screen I was over 1 minute down.

Entry is in for next week: 2 laps of Harrogate, 27km.

Enter category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1055240

We've ridden this course before - team of 4 riding in Latte and it took 48 mins. We came over the top of the hill together both times, so it is possible.

It really pushes my limits so think it helps me to ride with faster riders.

That will be a tough course for a TTT with the hills! I should be in. My little lad starts back at Beavers soon which clashes with it. It depends if they are doing meeting via zoom or back in the hut.

Harrogate is my least favourite Zwift world. Probably the one where I get dropped the most...but I’m in for next week again pending any work issues.
I think overall we did really well last night, we were bunched nicely for the most part. Apart from losing Ivan we kept a tight unit, even after that horrible underground climb! Be interesting to see where we came overall.

Be interesting to see where we came overall.

We were 179/419 overall, and 100/141 in frappe.

I might try and drop in to the STW team for this week as my usual BRT team make me look like an ace climber and I'm not sure that would be good for anyone.

I am in for this week but this will be my last week for a while as my son restarts Beavers via zoom which is 6 until 7 and I need to support him during that.

I'm planning to make tomorrow folks but, as things are getting back to normal this will have to be my last week of pre 7pm starts as it's a bit too tight round work if I'm not away bang on 5pm.

There is a 19:40 kick off time isn't there? Is that too late for people?

I know a few have struggled to get home in time recently etc so might be an option.

There is a 19:40 kick off time isn’t there? Is that too late for people?

I think moving to a later time is inevitable as people's routines get more and more normal. 6.30 was perfect when we chose it, but that was at the height of lockdown.

The later times are 7pm and 7.40pm. I'd be happy with either. Maybe we could try 7.40 next week?

At the moment, we have 6 on the list : dangeourbrain, mrhoppy, phil56, robbo123biking, me and zilog.(mrhoppy you need to change your team from BRT in zwiftpower settings, rider name)

Any other takers? 2 laps of Harrogate at 6.30pm. Join category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1055240

I doubt I'll make it at the moment - my trainer started making an awful grinding noise in yesterday's race. Let's see what elite tell me to do...

Ah sorry forgot to update. I got a team bump this week so racing against you in BRT Jupiter.

I’m in for 1830 tomorrow. Can’t do any later times this week. What with the pen delay it gets in the way of drinking wine. Paino.

Savoyad - what is the difference between the pens? Looking at the Wtrl site there are 20 teams in pen a and 10 in pen c.

Pens are:
A - Latte (no higher than B)
B - Mocha (no higher than C)
C - Espresso (teams with any A+)
D - Frappe (no higher than A, or 3 Bs)
E - Vienna (Ladies only teams)

So that empty looking pen is for Espresso, the teams with A+ riders. We are sometimes Latte, sometimes Frappe - it depends who shows up from week to week. That gives us a choice each week, but I have to make it in advance. So basically I've tried chopping and changing between pens A and D to shorten the delay. It doesn't seem to have much effect though.

The advantages of A/Latte is it starts 3 minutes ahead of D/Frappe AND we're more likely to catch other teams than be caught in that group. That's why we're there for now. If D gets emptier (I do look each week) we could move back.

Makes sense! Almost as complicated as my handicap system! Cheers for sorting.

Details for this evening:

Our start delay is 5.5 minutes. So in the start pen by 18:30, and we're off at 18:35:30

The startlist at the moment is:

dangeourbrain
phil56
eat_more_cheese
zilog6128
robbo1234biking

I'm pretty sure my trainer is not rideable. So unless I hear otherwise from elite in the course of today I'll be missing this week. There is still space for others to join: category A here https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1055240

Good luck, I'll be cheering you on.

Ta!

Good luck, I’ll be cheering you on.

For the avoidance of doubt - I can't make it as my regular cyclocross group has scraped up a team, so I'll see you on the road.

We are team Radish (don't ask), wave as you pass, I think we go a bit slower than STW went last week, and I haven't ridden since last thursday either, so there will be creaking of bones - have a good one

Ant

live stream with commentary? 😃

The only problem is that the entire potential audience for that, except me, will be riding. Maybe I'll provide commentatary on the discord channel. I imagine you'd all appreciate that.

This is going to be tough to hang on tonight!

Are you actually logging in to watch Savoyad?

The only problem is that the entire potential audience for that, except me, will be riding

DrP twitch streams his rides and I can't imagine anyone but DrP wanting to watch it back!

Sorry folks, doesn't look like i'm going to make it. Just about to lock up at the office now so chances of making the start line are very slim.

Good work making it back in time DB! **** me that was hard work. Phil, you are the spawn of Satan. Thanks though 🤣 defo would’ve bailed on those last couple of hills if you hadn’t been behind me ranting like an angry PE teacher 😂😂😂 sorry, “encouraging” 🤣

Yeah I cut it pretty fine, I was trying to pace my ride home to get in with enough time to log on but not bugger my self on the way. As it was I managed it about spot on though I did worry I'd be in thermal bib tights!

Good effort all, I enjoyed that sort of, I definitely need to have a proper look at my turbo though as the resistance seemed very low again, how much of that is the mental aspect of stepping off a nobbly tyred full suspension bike onto the thing though who knows!

That last 5k was fun 😂. Couldn’t get on the Discord channel. Did I miss the invite or is there a STW channel I can dial into every week? Paino