Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday

2 teams are entered this week, for 2 laps of sand and sequoias. Thur 7.40pm.

Everyone interested, sign up to category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1356634

This is a good course to try a team of Bs and a team of Cs this week, but let's see how signups go...

Cheers Savoyad I am in. Happy to go with a team of Bs and Cs if that is the plan. Happy to road captain the Cs (I.e start the timer) as I managed it last week without cocking it up!

I'll enter this week's ttt. I might have a last minute work/life clash which might prevent me joining in but hopefully it won't be the case.
Slow team please 😁

@savoyad - if we end up with a C/D team this week will it be automatically changed over to Mocha in the results?

Yes, it automatically reclassifies teams (other than in the platinum league) into the correct category for the results.

D's are very welcome to join us.

Some of you may have seen that this week's TTT is running as a fundraiser for World Bicycle Relief.

In fact they are offering teams time reductions (1 minute) for every Buffalo Bike (£120) donated.

It's a good cause, but as we aren't particularly results driven, our community has an existing effort to raise money for WBR, and I don't want to administer a new one, I thought it made more sense to just use this occasion as a prompt to draw all your attention to the existing link...

The Singletrack/WBR page is here: https://worldbicyclereliefuk.enthuse.com/cf/singletrack-supporting-world-bicycle-relief.

If anyone is inspired to donate, I suggest that you just do so there. No time deductions are available but the money goes to the same place in the end.

@savoyad – my usual Thursday night MTB partner is not around this week so I thought I'd give the TTT a go.

Other than signing up on the link you gave, what else do I need to know? There seems to be a lot of details around participating in this, such as use of Discord, protocols for arrival times at the start, how does the team start and form up, what bike to use (I assume not a TT bike), are we in A/B/C teams based just on our Zwiftpower W/kg, what is Mocha vs Latte?

Is there a quick guide to all this without reading all 31 pages of the thread?

Hi @j-r. Excellent news. And I'm not surprised it feels a bit like that. It makes sense once you've done it once though.

Yes, first sign up to category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1356634

I'll post teams tomorrow, and at that point I'll add all the practical info you need. In the meantime
- getting a zwiftpower account is the main hassle first time round, but that's not an issue for you. You'll need to tag yourself with the team name before the race (tag tbc and how-to tomorrow!)
- we communicate on discord. join the STW server here https://discord.gg/CccHswgX and you'll see voice channels for each TTT team. It's used for counting down the start etc. It's possible to participate without, but much better with (especially first time).
- the start process is a bodge. the organisers publish "start delays" tonight, and we have to sit still (i.e. not pedalling) AFTER it says go until our start delay has elapsed. This spreads the teams out on the road, and the results system adjusts for the delay. So you "go" at the end of that delay, and blob up with your teammates in the first few hundred metres.
- the rules assume mixed ability teams, and the coffee labels are for different mixes. we normally end up in "latte" (max Bs and rest Cs) or "frappe" (more than 3 Bs). Don't worry about it. It doesn't really matter. I allocate people to two teams based on everyone's (sometimes contradictory!) preferences each week. Your normal race categories A/B/C/D/E are not used for signup in the normal way. We generally start in A.
- bike choice. yes, road bike. The draft is essential. (BUT I think this week we might be forced on to buffalo bikes as a tie in with the WBR fundraiser)
- strategy - 4th rider across the line counts for the results. But we generally ride to get everyone to the line together. Our on road strategy is not particularly organised. I think there's support for a move towards greater organisation. We're heading that way. But that will be clear in advance of the start!

Basically, sign up, keep asking questions if you have any, and I'll try to make sure that the detail you really need (some of it repeated from here) is in the lunchtime post tomorrow!

We're on 12 riders for tomorrow (13 with @j-r, 14 if @mbs is joining us). So there's still space for at least a couple more.

Anyone lurking tempted to join in? Category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1356634

Very tempted to give it a go again. Having the flu jab in the morning so not sure if an hours vigorous exercise is the best thing to be doing. Anybody have any knowledge or experience of this?

Put my name down anyway.

@savoyad - That's me signed up. Just remember, I'm no Kirky or DrP.

@drew - I had the flu shot last week and apart from a mild arm ache had no effect at all. But my wife did feel a bit under the weather for a day, so you just have to see how it affects you personally.

Looks like we are all riding buffalo bikes tomorrow!

classic! Should be fun. Back in the day it was the fastest bike, not any more though. Explains why they were offering time bonuses for cash 😂

Is @mbs joining us? That will make two teams of 8 I think!

I had the flu shot last week and apart from a mild arm ache had no effect at all. But my wife did feel a bit under the weather for a day, s

I'm happy to stake my reputation on saying your wife feeling under the weather was in no way related to you having the flu jab. Unless you're Johnny Depp it's unlikely to be related to your mildly hurty arm either.

Alas no @mbs this week.

Looks like we're in good shape - 15 riders signed up (two big teams) and reasonable start delays (4.5 and 6.5 mins).

Still one spot available. Category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1356634

I'll post teams/tags etc at lunchtime.

Back in the day it was the fastest bike, not any more though.

The good ones are back.

Seems very low numbers in the Pens tonight (other than STW!) - people breaking up for Xmas already?!

Thanks for the reassurance J-R, just got back from having the vaccination so I’ll see how I feel later. Slightly concerned at the number of drop outs I had zwifting yesterday evening where everyone else disappeared. It must have been at least four in 40 minutes. It’s not normally a problem but happened during the first ttt I took part in so I was wondering if the time of day has anything to do with it.

Seems very low numbers in the Pens tonight (other than STW!) – people breaking up for Xmas already?!

Be just our bloody luck to make PL on Xmas eve at 7pm

Not sure how PL will work - if it includes the extra minutes that people have brought or just on pure time.

if it includes the extra minutes that people have brought or just on pure time.

Hmmmm - I wonder if i could divert that gofundme in the name of which ever stw team I'm not in and buy them all an Xmas eve PL spot. As a gift you know.

Teams for later. And I'm going to propose a structured (although still not OTT) approach, the same for both teams, which I'll put in the next post.

Team MoreSTW delay +4.5mins so off at 19:44:30, tag (MoreSTW), Discord voice TTT (MoreSTW)

@phil56 (* road captain / comms) - change your tag
@paino - change your tag
@dangeourbrain - change your tag
@w00dster
@j-r - you need to append "(MoreSTW)" to your zwiftpower name. see below!
@mahowlett - tag your name
@scaredypants

Team STW delay +6.5 minutes so off at 19:46:30, tag (STW) Discord voice TTT (STW)

@munkeymadness (* road captain / comms)
@yanboss
@trolo1234 - change your tag
@zilog
@rick - change your tag
@drew -
@haloric
@robbo1234biking

The buffalo bikes are not a problem. In fact they are lovely to ride and look suitably weird. A bit like we will on our MTBs in robbo's series. You CAN choose your wheels though, so if you are an equipment swapper (and/or esp if you usually ride a tron) think about that. I rode 808s this morning.

To change tags, go to the event page here https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1356634 choose Settings top right, and type the full name you want including the tag (not just the tag) into the My Name field.

Here's the strategy for today. We can debrief after. This course is very, very well suited to doing this because of the way it's neatly segmented into different sections which alternate and last long enough for everyone to be properly involved.

The course alternates like this:

Desert 1: start - 10km : ride in organised rotation (see below)
Jungle 1: 10km - 20km: blob (our normal cooperative chaos) (10km so starting on the first rise) - focus on getting everyone through the rollers.
Desert 2: 20km - 30km: rotation
Jungle 2: 30km- 40km: blob
Desert 3: 40km - finish: rotate.

From the start, get together neatly settled and then at 30 seconds or 1 minute (so the clock is round numbers for future changes; road captains decide exactly which) begin your rotations. Use the rider orders posted above. Captains: your job is to call the changes on 0s/30s and then call to warn who is up next. So you need a list in order, comms, and a way of remembering if anyone withdraws from the rotation.

Everyone take 30 seconds on the front then recover until your next pull. No set watts or speed target. Go hard for you (somewhere in the range less than your 1 minute power but more than your 5 minute power!).

It's absolutely OK to refuse a turn when called if you are tired (skip to next person) or pull out of the rotation and stop pulling entirely but stay in the group to provide draft/cover. Either way, speak up when called!

2nd wheel is really important - it's hard work for someone, but also you all need to recover. And it's not ideal to move to the front from there. So @phil56, @paino, @dangeourbrain (for MoreSTW) and @munkeymadness, @yanboss and @trolo1234 (for STW) can you step in and and cover 2nd wheel as much as you can in your respective teams. I think - for now - this is probably wiser than trying longer pulls for some if you are feeling stronger.

Don't forget: the aim is still to stay together to the finish. Even with more structure, this will still be harder today through the forest than the desert.

Finally, there is a technique in this video called "sink and sprint".
see here

The aim of sinking is to not present a sticky draft to your teammates as you drop back after your turn. Think about it, but don't go overboard. Everyone riding today is "zwifty" enough to do a "sneaky surge" rather than a "sprint" but slightly earlier than the video says sprint though. It'll get you back on. And it's much lower risk.

Enjoy...

Have you got room for another rider? Understand if its a bit late...

Looks good. Will be good to try something different!

Only thing I can think of is that on the flat you have suggested the Bs cover 2nd wheel - I cant remember what power they out put but I know trolo is around 250w FTP whereas I am 280W. How much does weight matter on the flat i.e. if we have light weight B's are we going to tire them out if they are trying to cover 2nd wheel when the Cs might have a higher power output?

Cheers Adam. Good video. It’s a difficult one trying to balance the whole sink and sprint thing with the leading from the back approach. It’s much easier hitting the front from the back of the pack with the extra draft effect, rather than second wheel pushing through.... So are we assuming that whoever sits on the front pulls the anchors after 30/60sec to effectively say second wheel now has the lead?
It’s going to be hectic but I’m looking forward to it!

Yes @paino. Pull the anchors and if 2nd wheel isn't the person up next, trust that someone will be in the process of jumping past them . Once the call to change is made, your responsibility is to get back in the group and recover for next time (and/or in your case recover ready for some 2nd wheel duty). Everyone can hit the front from their preferred approach (some might want to be ready in 2nd even if others think that's extra effort, some will like to wind it up from the very back, others creep up from the middle etc).

So are we assuming that whoever sits on the front pulls the anchors after 30/60sec to effectively say second wheel now has the lead?

For my tuppence worth I'd suggest we surge off the back then try falling back a place at a time it's much much easier and far lower risk of splintering the group.

@benman yes there is one place which you are welcome to grab.
Join team MoreSTW so
- enter pen A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1356634
- tag yourself as a team member in zwiftpower by appending (MoreSTW) to your Rider Name. Instructions above.
- check through tonight's strategy post above.

@phil56 If this works out, I'd add @benman to your rotations between @dangeourbrain and @w00dster. Your call though.

For my tuppence worth I’d suggest we surge off the back then try falling back a place at a time it’s much much easier and far lower risk of splintering the group.

I would normally agree, but I'm ready to try it the other way today, it makes it very clear that after the front you go to the back. Without this there is a kind of random churn of the front few riders. Can't wait to see us whipped into shape.

I didn't see the break point on the road announced for mince pies, but can I suggest xmas jumpers for team kit tonight ?

Click the default Zwift kit (grey with orange Z) - https://zwiftinsider.com/xmas/

Okay, think I've done everything to enter. Just need to set discord up now

but can I suggest xmas jumpers for team kit tonight ?

but can I suggest xmas jumpers for team kit tonight ?

Maybe we should all have reindeer names for the week. If only for the smirk value as Phil urges us onto the front "now dasher, now prancer, on doner now blitzen"

Fresh discord invite (@benman, @j-r) https://discord.gg/F92vG5Uj

Maybe we should all have reindeer names for the week. If only for the smirk value as Phil urges us on “now dasher, now prancer, on doner now blitzen”

There are 8 reindeers as well so that works!

All good to go now 🙂

Ok just trying to get my head around the strategy for tonight. I’m not the brightest and I need to be really clear in my head what the steps are....sorry!!
Are we going to attempt to be in single file, every 30 seconds or so we drop back to the rear of the line, recover until it’s our turn to pull again? Are all 8 riders going to put in a pull for the same amount of time? Even if the watts is reduced for the lighter riders, do we have a rough target of FTP we should aim for (120% ftp?).
Are we going to have a line order, so we know who we follow and who follows us? Sorry for the questions, just how my brain works I’m afraid!

@w00dster. their might be changes but I intended:
- single file ish. defined front and usually clear second rider. maybe even a third usually. But further back blobbing is fine and often more likely.
- Do your 30 seconds on the front, recover while everyone else does their 30 seconds, then your 30 seconds comes round again
- precise targets seems too much to me (for a variety of reasons). that's why I suggested a broad benchmark of just pulling hard, somewhere between your 1 minute and 5 minute power! keep an eye no gap opens behind you when you are on the front.
-I suggested the order be the order riders were in in my original post (above). road captains can confirm in the pen, and next up every 30seconds during the ride. There will be too much churn for it to be actually ridden in that order most of the time though. the order is really for front duties.

Thanks for the info. The reason I mentioned the order being confirmed is that I’ll probably write it down. If I don’t I’ll get a tad confused, especially when I’m blowing out of my backside!

I'm going to have to drop out this evening 🙁 .
I have to get up at 0300 tomorrow morning.
I like the idea that has been proposed above for the organised structure of the ttt. Hopefully i will be able to contribute in future races.

I’m up for the Reindeer names, although it’s going to confuse the hell out of Phil!
On the basis of 8 single file riders, any pushing up from the back is going to take longer than if we were blobbed, so, logically second wheel becomes first and then recover at back OR unless El Capitaino tells us where to sit. That way there’s a defined order, which is going to go to shit on the climb. Which reminds me @Benman don’t go balls out on the climb (as I know you can)! It’s a good idea for the stronger climbers to be the sweeper to make sure nobody falls off the back, or at least help if someone does.

No worries @retrorick. Get some sleep!