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haloric
Free Member
For me, where we go wrong is not slowing enough when there is a gap, and hoping Phil can pull the sufferer along.When there is a gap at the back the whole team needs to go into 80% cruise mode, whilst the rider rejoins, or a stronger ride helps out by going back, but the main team must reduce effort considerably, otherwise the dropped rider has to put in monumental effort and is drained when they do get back.
Agree 100%, on the occasions when I've pulled the plug it wasn't necessarily because I wouldn't have been able to get back on but because I knew that the effort of getting back on combined with no noticeable drop in pace meant that being dropped again (and again!) was almost inevitable.
I have ordered one of these:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B074M5PDQY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Will let you know tomorrow if it is any good. Will try in ear headphones with it and use that for comms and in ear for music.
People normally cant hear me with my in ear ones hence me giving the other ones a try. Wireless is an issue as well so hopefully the cord is nice and long!
Oh and I quite like the feeling of waiting for the teams to come out. Reminds me of my rugby playing days waiting for the text to come through to know which team you would be playing in ie. would you be playing against South Africans and Kiwis in London or a bunch of retired teachers in Leicester!
I'm not sure ear-muffs are a great idea for indoor turbo racing!
I’m not sure ear-muffs are a great idea for indoor turbo racing!
I wear a head band as well. I pretty much look like a bad 80s workout instructor in a mankini. I already use some wireless over ear ones for workouts and don't have an issue with my ears getting hot but all of my extremities seem to suffer with being cold!
Ha I was going to ask if anyone uses a head band or not, I seem to suffer from sweat in the eyes and all over the phone!
I don't think I could wear such big cups over my ears whilst exercising, I'll melt.
I wear a head band as well. I pretty much look like a bad 80s workout instructor in a mankini.
If you ever follow DrP down the twitch stream route, promise me you'll grow a Tom Selleck tache first*
*assumes you currently look like that chap in the deer stalker on emmerdale.
I've been going round in circles like it's a velodrome. No lineups were perfect. I've alighted on this distribution of riders, my best attempt at satisfying everyone within the constraints of the event:
TEAM ONE
@phil56
@paino
@w00dster
@scaredypants
@yanboss
@zilog6128
@robbo1234biking
TEAM TWO
@dangeourbrain
@drew
@weeksy
@retrorick
@oopnorth
@ljarch
@ivandobski
@haloric
One is obviously a faster team than two (by design). But I'm still a bit uncomfortable thinking of them as A and B teams. A lot of interchangeability is possible and we should probably shuffle a bit to experiment from week to week. Both have plenty of experience in the format which is nice.
It's hard to get a good power "gradient" (on paper) across the riders for both teams because we have a bit of a gap in the middle of the B range.
So these lineups have a more dramatic and satisfying power gradient in team one than team two. Team two is really a very tight unit based on power profiles alone, plus Brian. I've tried to take everyone's contributions to the conversation into account and also to avoid dropping us in the trap of unsatisfying results in both frappe and latte.
This is a really amazing group of riders to have these dilemmas with.
I'll allocate the actual team names etc once start delays are announced - this will mean I can manipulate the gap between the teams. It might be fun one day to be passing each other, but I think we best avoid that for now...That'll be probably tomorrow AM but I'll do it tonight if (which isn't often the case...) I get the info email in time.
Excellent work savoyad
good stuff! looking forward to it 😃
Works for me! Thanks savoyad
It might be fun one day to be passing each other, but I think we best avoid that for now
To be fair that would be pretty hilarious, passes are messy enough without the added joy of the other team being in the same kit, with the same tag and all people you were riding with yesterday.
on headphones - I have NO IDEA how you can stand that ! (or how they'd survive even a couple of races on my head)
I have one of those conference camera/mic things on the top of my screen for the mic and a pair of speakers for the sounds. Seemed to work OK on the ride I did with you (at least, people said they could hear me OK). Only major worry would be if I started accidentally streaming video - I'm no "DrP, catwalk king"
I do have a huge fan pointed at my head so that might be why I don’t find them too bad!
Teams look good Savoyad. Cheers for sorting.
Just a note...this will be my first ever TT, team or otherwise...so apologies in advance if I really mess it up!!
Sorry team 2 😉
... should add, I don't care at all which team I join so please move me as anyone prefers, savoyad
(road bikes again this week, as the app description seems to suggest, or is the "sand" aspect off-road ?)
Don’t worry mate. It is basically like riding in the group last night. We don’t do turns on the front or anything that organised - just give it your best and enjoy it. Ivan looked strong last night as well in our group.
You would do good being the pace setter up the climb. Set a decent but confortable pace at about 250w for the team and let Brian drop to the back in case anyone drops off.
You would do good being the pace setter up the climb. Set a decent but confortable pace at about 250w for the team and let Brian drop to the back in case anyone drops off.
Pretty much this, unless you've any objections as a group, my plan is to sit on the back and fill gaps as they appear or help pull people back on if needed. [significantly it should let you lot work as a group as it suits you and see how it goes without too much risk of the group coming badly apart if you misjudge]
If it goes as I expect I'll fall off a bit on the climb and the rollers so I can pull anyone who has fallen off back to you on the down hill and the flat.
The desert is about as pan flat as zwift gets so I imagine looking at the group you'll all stick pretty well there until you don't. When they do form any gaps will go out quickly so will be a fair bit of under over for me to try keep any one at the back from falling off too much without it getting very lurchy.
Happy to do some pulling come lap 2 if you're all holding together well but I think it's likely to cause trouble if I'm spending much time on the front.
If it all goes swimmingly I'll get a nice pootle...
I'll be ok on the first time up the Titan's, second I might be blowing...let's see.
I'm happy to take the front when I feel good enough to do so, then hide in the draft during the flatter sections to get some breath back. Pretty much like last night. I'm not a great pacer though so let me know if I pull too hard or not!!
If you're doing a turn on the front and feeling good don't drop the hammer and catch people out, just do a longer turn at a slightly higher pace.
road bikes again this week,
Always. Gravel bikes lose more in aero than they gain in speed so in a draft its pointless even in dirt. (and its all* tarmac tomorrow)
Only thing I would say is avoid the tron bike. No draft animation makes it really bloody hard to know if you're losing the group or towing them when folks are on them.
*almost
I'm looking forward to my 2nd TT. I think I'll watch slightly more tv and cut my warmup time in half so I'm not totally useless during the event 😂
I’m down on power quite a bit since I last rode with you guys so I’m expecting this to be grim! I’ll do my best and I’m sure I’ll know pretty early on if I’ve bitten of a bit too much too soon, only one way to get fit again though right?! Think the toughest bit for me will be passing any teams and if we catch any back to back!! Those surges hurt when I was fitter never mind now.
Only thing I would say is avoid the tron bike.
Looks like I need to spend some drops! New Canyon? I do have the venge but I think that's more suited to just flats.
Will the lightweight wheels work or should I go more aero?
I raced with the aero road and the dr Swiss wheels yesterday. Might be a good combo!
Think the toughest bit for me will be passing any teams and if we catch any back to back!! Those surges hurt when I was fitter never mind now.
You'll be fine - I'll pick you up if you're falling off, just remember to aim for my wheel not try and chase the group.
Unless the group is going serious guns on the front I should be able to pace you back on so you're pulling less than they are but making ground so long as you hold draft.
Looks like I need to spend some drops! New Canyon? I do have the venge but I think that’s more suited to just flats.
Will the lightweight wheels work or should I go more aero
New canyon is actually faster than the tron. Its the fastest all out bike in the game no or side TT.
Zipp 808s (or supers etc if you've got them) for wheels for everything except hill top finishes.
Got 808's already, so just a frame change needed. I'm off virtual bike shopping!
Did a course recce today, it’s a long one at 43k (with the lead out). It’s all about the climb though. I think it’s where teams are going to split all over the place. Stupidly I gave the climb a good bash, probably a terrible idea, but I think we’re looking at 5-6mins to the top. All in just over an hour in the saddle I’d say.
5-6, optimistic!
5:34 is my best.
Best lap 30:07
5-6 for lap 1, 10-15 mins for lap 2 😂
I have done 5.11 quickest but done sub 5.25 about 5 times. That means hitting 300w average though.
It is doable though - did 280 to 295 W average on the reverse KOM which is a 5 min climb. I managed that 3 times in the race 2 weeks ago.
So what is the best way to tackle the hills as a group...someone push at the front at a reasonable pace and hope all follow? Or should we select a pace all can do and try keep to that?
I'm just conscious of the group potentially getting split. In normal races it's all about splitting the group, in this race the opposite.
Same question about going past other groups...put in a burst to get past as quickly as possible?
So many questions...sorry! 🤣🤣
Pick a pace all should be able to follow but knock it off it starts to split. When catching another group don't force the catch, we're clearly going well enough - once we get really close then put in a burst to get through and clear.
Ok, we have our start delays. So here are final details:
Teams are still as above.
TEAM ONE, STW (@phil56, @paino, @w00dster, @scaredypants, @yanboss, @zilog6128, @robbo1234biking)
Start delay is 4.5 minutes. So in the start pen by 19:40, GO GO GO at 19:44:30
Rider name tag is (STW). You are all tagged correctly already.
Use Discord voice channel TTT (STW) on the STW server.
TEAM TWO, MoreSTW (@dangeourbrain, @drew, @weeksy, @retrorick, @oopnorth, @ljarch, @ivandobski,
@haloric)
Start delay is 8.5 minutes. So in the start pen by 19:40, GO GO GO at 19:48:30
Rider name tag is (MoreSTW). You all need to CHANGE YOUR TAG - zwiftpower --> settings --> Rider name. I'll check and hassle tomorrow. [If they stay as they are, everyone will bamboozle the results for team one...]
Use Discord voice channel TTT (MoreSTW) on the STW server.
Discord server invite if necessary https://discord.gg/PwbFv2
You can give me my prize for team name imagination later. Or we can change the team name(s) in future. I did it this way for now because the team tag is often truncated in the sidebar, and them all reading "Name (STW..." seemed a bad idea, even if we're avoiding passes, so they are distinguished from each other at the start not the end.
That's all for now. Plenty of time for questions, strategizing, anxieties etc. between now and banner drop...I'll post later (or someone else can if they get there first) the start process for those who need an intro.
Keeping a steady pace up the hill is the only way to keep the group as one. There’ll be plenty of other teams splintered, but I imagine the draft/sticky effect is negligible.
@savoad change name in both zwift and zwift power....or just zwift power?
change name in both zwift and zwift power….or just zwift power?
Just zwiftpower.
👍👍
Paino, when you did it on your recce ride, what w/kg and power did you do the climb at? Over thinking this but wondering if we agree a figure we want to aim for for the 6 mins?
Being 69kgs I’ll probably end up going up faster than some of the heavier guys, might be useful to get a call on discord if we hit it to hard?
I hit it at 350-450W. I’m 79kg, so about 4.5-5w/kg. 4:30 ish to the top. It was supposed to be a recovery ride. Couldn’t do 2 laps at that speed. I’ll wait to see how the legs are feeling, but I’m hoping to sustain 300W steady for 5 minutes.
<steps quietly away from the thread>
<takes revolver from desk drawer>
<adjusts weight to 55kg>
<lights cigar from "revolver">
🙂
I'll change my zwift power tag when I get home from work. 👍
@scaredypants, those figures were just me pushing it after pootling round at 120W. No way can i replicate that in a race. In reality it goes 1. Follow Phil, 2. suffer the horrible climb, 3. Follow Phil. And repeat for lap 2.
@paino sounds like a solid plan
https://www.bestbikesplit.com/ suggests that based on a normalised power of 278w I should do the flats at 270w the hills at 310-320W and the downhills at 200w
Although it doesn't know about the draft so likely would be faster going even harder on the climbs and easier on the flats whilst being towed along.