[Closed] XX1 and Ibis Mojo HD

No experience of either dw bikes or xx1 but the thing that has crossed my mind is that the design of the dw link is that it uses the change of chainlink caused by the chainrings to control the suspension.

Thanks, I presume you mean chainlength rather than chainlink in your comment.
Don't see how that's an issue though as the length of the chain, obviously fixed, has not been issue on my SL with 3x9 vs 2x9 in 'controlling' my suspension. I believe there are quite a number of HD & XX1 bikes around (primarily US?) and adoption of XX1 leading to suspension issues has not been noted in any reviews I've seen.

I'm guessing he meant chainline - the DW link works with the differing chainline between granny, middle and big to change the suspension action by how the chain tension pulls on the axle.

Inside dropout/stay clearance on mono HDs at the cassette locking side is pretty abysmal, personally I'd be trying to remove any chance of a chain jam there rather than add moar gears.. But I suppose an 11 spd chain may do less damage/be easier to free. 😉

No idea what onzadog is trying to say but, do bear in mind, As with all DW link bikes,the suspension design characteristics will have been designed around a certain chairing size, I'd imagine that to be closer to 32 than 28 but you might as well look into it, Dave Weagle will no doubt help you if needed.

As campkoala says, you will probably suffer with the chain rubbing the inside of the stay/drop out. This happens even with 1x10. Ibis have just released a new mech hanger that pushes the frame out a fraction to combat this as people had been using washers or filing the frame. It will definitely be worth investing in one of these hangers imo. Hans at Ibis has told me 2pure are aware they are available and they should be in the UK in a few weeks. I run 1x10 now without issue and have 1x11 (32t) waiting to go on once my hanger arrives. More info here.

http://forums.mtbr.com/ibis/hd-xx-1-xo-1-custom-hanger-stock-885488.html

Thanks MrGFisher/Trevallion - I found the news about the redesigned mech hanger just after first posting. Haven't found an issue on the 2x10 but I'll probably get a new one when they're in. Not that I use 11t or expect to use 10t much.

Sorry, autocorrect. I did mean chainline.

The big sell with dw was that it was designed around traversing in the middle ring and climbing in the granny ring.

So, with just one ring, it can't work as intended. How much this affects it, I don't know. Some people who have switched a triple to a single on dw bikes have passed comment on the difference. There was even a discussion on here about it last year. I'm sure a Google search will reveal it.

Maybe it's not a big consideration but I thought it fitted in with the op's question. I guess the op can then decide if it warrants more research/questions or not. His bike, his call.

That's rubbish, DW link was designed primarily for single ring DH bikes

What you describe is a marketing spin on a handy flaw

I ran xx1 on my mojo hd without any problems.

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That's rubbish, DW link was designed primarily for single ring DH bikes

not according to Dave Weagle - Onzadog is correct.

Dave said:

"I design for optimization in the middle ring in the flats and light climbs, granny for the big climbs, and big ring for the descents. There is a lot of overlap there."

so they key must be 'there is a lot of overlap there', so if you are trying to ride all types of terrain then it might be an issue, but it might not.

God forbid, if it is compromised at one end and bobs then you might have to deploy pro-pedal to compensate, which is what 90% of riders seem to be happy to do.

the quote is from here, which discusses the whole 3 ring stuff with regards to suspension:

[url= http://dw-link.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/single-chainrings-and-detrimental.html ]single chainrings and the detrimental effects on bicycle suspensions used for climbing and all mountain type riding[/url]

Dave says a lot of stuff, have a look back through what he said in 2004 about DW link before he sold his soul to the industry.

have a look back through what he said in 2004

perhaps you could direct me to the quotes you refer to - otherwise the ones I see support the same idea. From a 2004 Iron Horse brochure:

" what does the dw-link suspension do the short technical answer the dw-link suspension design takes advantage of physics dynamics and kinematics principles which govern motion in a linkage system and acceleration of vehicles the design takes advantage of and manipulates the influences of chain pull and driving force and combines them together to give a tuned anti-squat response through the suspension travel"

Surely for a downhill bike you wouldn't be concentrating on chain pull providing anti-squat and combating bobbing as pedaling efficiency is not your primary concern.

If that's all you've taken from reading what you've quoted above, there's very little point in me trawling through Daves PhD sized writings on the subject trying to find something simple enough for you to understand.
From your user name,, I can only assume you thought horst link was the holy grail of suspension technology until it wasn't and then was again 😉

From your user name,, I can only assume you thought horst link was the holy grail of suspension technology until it wasn't and then was again

how the hell did you get that from my user name ?

try me with some of those quotes to prove your point - or are you unable to ?

Dave Weagle..... I smell BS

Sorry dude, I know it's en vogue here, but quoting out of context to explain a fairly simple concept is not my style.. There's more than enough of Daves personal scribing on the early development of his DW link available for you to view online yourself. S

Sorry dude, I know it's en vogue here, but quoting out of context to explain a fairly simple concept is not my style.. There's more than enough of Daves personal scribing on the early development of his DW link available for you to view online yourself. S

so in other words you talking rubbish and can't back it up...

How is it out of context ? We are talking about whether the concept of chainline and chain pull is fundamental to how dw-link operates, and so whether changing to a single ring might compromise its function.

Of course changing chairing size compromises function.

For you to understand this I'd have to quote too large an amount of text for the forum.

Of course changing chairing size compromises function.

For you to understand this I'd have to quote too large an amount of text for the forum.

put up or shut up...

From Dave here:

http://dw-link.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/single-chainrings-and-detrimental.html

That's the same link I posted earlier...

28t? Man up.

(Seriously, your fastest gear is going to be 28x10? Since you've got a big old dinner plate 42t sprocket out back, the least you can do is use a 32t/24t front for some balance)

Superficial - Member
28t? Man up.

(Seriously, your fastest gear is going to be 28x10? Since you've got a big old dinner plate 42t sprocket out back, the least you can do is use a 32t/24t front for some balance)

Personally I find 32 a bit to spinny for my legs, try limiting yourself to that gear for a couple of rides first. From what I see XX1 works if you hit the range it offers, you want to be on the edge of going 1x10 but just want a bit more.

Yes, seriously, 28t.
28/42 is exactly the same lowest ratio as 24/36 which I happily use (when terrain dictates) on my current XT 2x10. I don't see any problem with that at all. I'm not racing but living and riding in t'Dales where we have some steep climbs - don't want to lose opportunity to ride them all. And as regards 'man up', if you can ride up anything as steep as I can when [u]you're[/u] 64, then I'll take my cap off to you.......if you think you can catch me. 🙂

I don't see any problem with that at all. I'm not racing but living and riding in t'Dales where we have some steep climbs - don't want to lose opportunity to ride them all.

Not knocking it and it's where my problem going 1x are - I reckon 28t would get me anywhere up but nowhere flat or down, each to their own though. I'm 26/39 which is a little over geared for technical trails in top gear but great for knocking off the km's in between. I'd happily drop back to 36 but hate going anything less.

Wasn't the whole chainring-affecting-suspension thing thoroughly debunked anyway?

cynic-al - Member
Wasn't the whole chainring-affecting-suspension thing thoroughly debunked anyway?
POSTED 10 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

I'd love to read a link if you have one.

[i]28/42 is exactly the same lowest ratio as 24/36 which I happily use (when terrain dictates) on my current XT 2x10.[/i]

But isn't that the (main?) problem with a single front ring, you're having to pick the ring size based upon the lowest gear you need?

I've looked at XX1 and it's having to do just this that is putting me off. For example; we did 30 miles and just over 5000ft of climbing on Sunday, no way would I want any less than 22/34 for the climbing, yet I'd have been spinning like a madman on the descents/slopes.

That depends on what's important to you, of course?

On my 29", I run a 32T front, with the big X01 cassette on the back, it gives me a bigger range than my previous 1x10 setup, which I had been running for probably 3 years & never ran out of gears riding up, or down.

That equates to something like ~30mph in bottom gear spinning at a good rate. If you want to ride down stuff faster than that, whilst still pedaling hard, I would suggest you probably find something more interesting to ride down. If you're riding trails that fast and still find you haven't got enough gears, you should probably be entering some races....