The thing about those complaining that the X minutes (I don't know for sure but I expect the time penalties are being over-estimated) per lap penalty is too much is that of course the technical challenge/bravery is an aspect of MTBing, and really you shouldn't be able to win (or make up the X minutes) in general on the B lines
I'm not complaining about the time penalties in the sense of actually complaining. I knew I was never going to bother the sharp end of the race so it didn't really matter whether the B lines cost me 8 minutes or 8 seconds...what I thought was a bit much was just the sheer amount of tech sections. 2, 3 or 4 would have been perfect but 9 was a bit steep.
If you're losing sleep about it though, just take the B lines - certainly better that than not racing at all. If spectators are getting on them during practice, this does need sorting, but that's another matter.
Losing sleep over it is purely pschological and pretty irrational. Especially as I rode that particular A line without issue. If we don't push the boundaries then we'll never improve however if those boundaries didn't make us feel somewhat uncomfortable then we wouldn't be human....and EVERYONE has boundaries.
I have only done a handful of local XC races, so I have no knowledge of the courses at national level, but the lack of technical riding put me off carrying on with them.
Good sections of technical singletrack to really separate those with skills from the roadies on a MTB would be great, but jumps/drops with slower B lines are a step in the right direction.
Looks like Southern XC are taking note -
That one with the van in looking from the top and the woodwork on the lip looking up is massive.
Looks like Southern XC are taking note -
They've been doing so for some years, Newnham is still a massive step up. Wasing is fun!
Off to race dry & dusty newnham tomorrow evening. Bring on the tech...
I'm not the most technical rider but if I can ride 75% of the A Lines in the dark and rain as I did on the Friday at Newnham, then maybe I'm a better/braver rider than I thought.
See you there Jambo!! Yay Newnham dust!!
To be fair, I didn't go, I'm just reiterating what friends have said!
Wasn't really aiming this to be just about Newnham in the op, more about courses in general. Though I guess as newnham was the focus of that blog it's not surprising.
That southern xc course looks good though.
The thing about those complaining that the X minutes (I don't know for sure but I expect the time penalties are being over-estimated) per lap penalty is too much is that of course the technical challenge/bravery is an aspect of MTBing, and really you shouldn't be able to win (or make up the X minutes) in general on the B lines.
I kind of disagree with that, the top riders will be all riding the a-lines and smashing the fitness bits, that why they are top of the field. In midfield there will be some with better fitness and some with better technical prowess. For those fitter but less technically adept, they should be able to make up the time from the b-lines each lap. Remember making up that time is not 'free' time, every time you have to claw back 10s it hurts and makes the chances of winning an end of race sprint or whatever harder. For me that's the purpose of the a/b split, done well it actually challenges both types of rider while keeping the racing close.
I had an evening with the organisers and came away being able to ride nearly all of the course. Remember I'm a slow, 40 something rider. If I can do it then so should 95% of the field be able to. Its all about practice. I got home that evening and my wife couldn't shut me up. I was buzzing!
This makes me smile. Fantastic stuff - really well done! I wish we wrote a little more on the forum about these type of things.
This thread just went from theory to wtf. Guess it's the c line on the log drop for me on Sunday!
Wasing?
The B-line is the old a-line, and very easy. The A-line is rollable if you hug the right, but it's fairly hairy. You'll lose no time taking the B-line.
My take on it is it's mountain biking. If you want a cycling race where fitness is king then race cyclo cross or on the road. If you want a race that combines fitness and bike handling skills then race xc.
I remember a few years ago in response to the mountain mayhem course being a bit on the easier side they put in a mildly technical section. While fun to ride it gained no advantage over the b line.
If you're not good enough to ride the a line you should be punished by losing time.
If you want a cycling race where fitness is king then race cyclo cross or on the road. If you want a race that combines fitness and bike handling skills then race xc.
Why not include 20 foot road gaps and 10 foot drops to flat then? It's not binary, we're not talking about fields a la Mayhem, no one wants that, there is no right answer as some people will always want more, whilst others will be put off.
People will always have differnet opinions on courses and prefer the courses that suit their skill set. What I find slightly pathetic is that people with better technical skills than fitness belittle people who are the other way round. Both require significant amounts of dedication. XC was orginally an endurance sport.
Maybe the courses have nothing to do with the lack of numbers racing, maybe xc is just not as popular given the diveristy of other tyes of mtb. I'm uncertain whether the 'weekend warrior,' doing it for a laugh, enduro crowd would suddenly start racing xc if all the courses were as technical as Newnham, the climbs were still pretty sapping. Likewise I dont know if more of the cx crowd would race if courses were more like I remember from the nineties (like the gorricks are now), as a lot of them focus on road.
mountain mayhem course being a bit on the easier side
The Malverns / Mountain Mayhem course has always been easy from a technical view point.
Which is a byproduct of the volume of riders. Victim of its own success. All Mayhem venues have been technically very easy.
Why not include 20 foot road gaps and 10 foot drops to flat then?
Mystic Meg's BC XC national champs 2017 course prediction? -
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Why not include 20 foot road gaps and 10 foot drops to flat then?
Indeed why not. If anyone could ride them, I'd enjoy watching this whilst I took the B or C line, and it'd be something to aim for!
I havent raced XC in the last few years (since it got the O) but i always thought gorricks were about right; they were technical enough to make mid pack running a good day out on the bike - and not just a fitness test.
Flip side is that every tech feature you'd be stuck behind someone making a right dogs dinner out of it. i remember one race, someone going home in a ambulance as there was a small roller/ pump section.
and that's the crux of the issue; people are hospitalising themselves over what i thought was very easy wheels on the ground riding (I am far from a strong technical rider)
i always thought gorricks were about right; they were technical enough to make mid pack running a good day out on the bike - and not just a fitness test.
Gorrick races are the most convenient for me despite a 100+ mile journey each way but I agree - it's a good day out on the bike. Their courses are better than the riding straight from my doorstep so I'd have to get in the car anyway for a decent ride (not always possible w/o notice), plus there's no having to stop and wait for people.
A few of their races this year have had some a/b lines none of which I've hesitated over choosing the a-line as they've all been rollable. I wouldn't mind seeing more technical/fun features like drops and small jumps at Gorrick.
Pretty much a mid pack rider but still frequently been held up on descents as well as climbs at Gorrick.
I dont know if more of the cx crowd would race if courses were more like I remember from the nineties (like the gorricks are now), as a lot of them focus on road.
I don't think that's accurate about the Gorrick races - while they're not overly technical I don't think a powerful rider without MTB skills would fair very well.
Just to make it clear wasn't slating gorrick at all, the ones I've done are great courses, as said above technical enough but not terrifying. But they remind me of racing in the mid to late nineties. The courses are accessible to all and unsurprisingly the fields are big in gorrick too. What I meant was that here in Wales cx is booming, but some won't race mtb due to perceived danger.
That's another good point you make re rider skills, even without crazy a-lines, technical riders are stil rewarded in any singletrack section and will make gaps
The log drop at Wasing isn't rollable down the right any more... That line's been blocked off from what I can see in the photos.
Interesting thread - I've only 'raced' MTBs as part of an off-road triathlon and that was what told me I needed to learn some proper skills. However, I was up at Porridge Pot on Thursday and riding what I assumed was the Gorrick track.
Apart from the fact that it was great fun and surprisingly little eroded, the thing that amazed me was how do you race something as tight at that? If I was on the course (reddy brown trail) there was very little room to overtake, quite a few tightish bends and one shirt hill that was quite difficulty to make it up (at least if you did not know what was coming). On the first lap I was thinking - good job this is not a race because the people behind me would be getting pretty pissed off!!
Log jump A line at Wasing closed - think after a crash. Mini log jump A line (first after the start) had a couple of crashes. Watching people being tended too a bit sobering.
Riding As while fresh is a lot easier than when breathing out of every available orifice!
Rode the b line at the massive drop - a line was too much for me. Saw the girl stack it there - looked horrible, but I understand from the paramedic that she is ok.
The gap jump (mini log jump) took a bit of practice for me, but in the end got it nailed in practice. Race was a different issue though, as the fella in front braked hard on the lip causing me and others to dismount on lap 1. On lap 2 had a clear run, but sprinted at the lip like an idiot and overshot the landing by a country mile, and had a squirrelly moment. Lap 3 i crashed earlier in the lap, so took the b line.
Anyway lots of fun and a really fast course.
I heard how many collar bones the big A line has bust over the years and avoided!
I stood at the top, pondered a bit then went for the b line. 🙂
On lap 2 had a clear run, but sprinted at the lip like an idiot and overshot the landing by a country mile, and had a squirrelly moment
I did that last year! On my 4th lap got a bit cocky and went flying!
Some 'friends of friends of friends' raced Newnham and some photos popped up on my Facebook. As soon as I saw them I had a look for when the next race was down there. Course looks really good, personally I'm all for more technical A/B/C lines as I'm a bit overbiked for XC, but I do think it does add another tactcial dimension which keeps it interesting.
newnham on friday night was great. my fitness was more than a little lacking but the downhills were fun...
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