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What are you getting then? Or have you changed your mind completely and seen something else?
those 'man in a shed' brands (on one, ragley, etc) have the input of what, 1 rider? and probably little scope for testing prototypes as they're all made on the other side of the world, yet they seem to do ok?
hmm
I must stop pretending to be a man in a shed, and actually tell people a bit more about what goes on :-/
Brant with his new hut for Ragley
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A car version of the Carrera earlier
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Quick coat of Hammerite and no one will know what it is anyway :-). Buy it, ride it for a while, if it's crap flog it and move on. Job done.
brant explains a bit more about what goes on;
[url=
I'd say this is more the car version of a Carerra (Or a Boardman for that matter)
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As in, borrows technology and design from other manufacturers, some people laugh at them and wouldn't bee seen dead with one, but is actually very solid and reliable. And the the wiser people know better.....
8)
I haven't read all this, as I'm working on Ragley Complete bike pricing actually, but something I think's been missed is "route to market" in all this.
Some brands go "direct" - Carrera is wholly owned, and sold only through Halfords, right? (I think) - so there are less people needing a margin.
ie: Factory >> Halfords >> Customer
Compare that to some bike companies.
Factory >> Brand >> Distributor >> Retailer >> Customer.
With everyone wanting a bit of pie, that explains why Boardman (Halfords own brand) are such stonking value.
Factory >> Brand >> Distributor >> Retailer >> Customer.
Nah
Factory >> Sprinkle of Mojo and Elf magic >> Distributor >> Retailer >> Customer.
I tell you what Hora, I'll get one of those Carreras and you can be on the Santa Cruz - race down Jacobs Ladder? Then we'll see where brand [s]snobbishness[/s] loyalty gets you. 😉
Correction Pauls Cycles have not gone bust and I am now trying to buy this:[img] 
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careful robdob, hora's a fast walker...
From someone in this post who's owned 2 Carreras...
And in a way I owe everything mountain biking's given me to those 2 supermarket bikes.
Isn't comparing Carrera to "supermarket bikes" exactly the snobbery we're talking about? 😀
I got to the end of this thread and someone had just said what I was thinking.
Buy a Carerra, then just like a Skoda driver, you'll ride around trying to justify how your bike is just as good as all of the decent brands, and you'll go on and on so much about it that you might even end up believing it yourself.
But most probably somewhere in the back of your mind you'll wonder what you could have been riding if you'd got an extra paper-round, saved up for a few more months and bought something else. And you'll think that every time you go in the shed and look at it, when really what you deserve to be thinking is 'that's MY bike that is, and I can't wait to get out and ride it'.
Be honest, if you really thought there was nothing wrong with it then you wouldn't think you had to justify buying it, the question wouldn't even enter your head.
As for Paul's Cycles, I would much rather buy a Carrera than a Proflex. Has anyone actually ridden a Proflex in the last 20 years? At least lots of us lot and the bike mags have ridden and rated Carreras.
Back to the original topic. Would I buy a Carrera?
No I wouldn't.
Just as I don't drive round in a Korean or Czech car. I couldn't give a rats-ass about the Jones's next door. I buy secondhand anyway. What bothers me is what appeals to ME.
Its not just form and function - when its your wage it comes down to a mix of the two. That Carrera reminds me of the old Trek Fuel X(?) frames. Exactly almost- they didnt do it for me either (test rode one).
Would you buy M&S jeans? Perfectly functional and probably comfier but **** wearing those.
I'm going to die one day. I don't want to leave c£300 extra in my will thanks.
Robdob- we all know I don't actually ride just live on STW 😉
Ps. I've got those Ultegra calipers in the car somewhere if you fancy them? Could drop them off in Marsh. No worries if not- the car has extra ballast!
Hora, have you ever ridden a Carrera? I had a '00 Fury, and it was one of the finest bikes I've ever had both in build quality, ride and components.
Admittedly this was a few years ago and the frame was a merida built frame with lx/xt components throughout, and the frame manufacture [i]may[/i] have changed, but it was/is an exquisite bike. My bro has got it now and he loves it.
I had a 2001 Rocky Mountain Vertex. Gawd it was ace. 
Driller, that's probably the worst reason I have ever heard for not buying a particular brand of bike. Are you really that insecure that this would bother you that much? Blimey.
And sometimes it's not just "an extra paper round" or saving up another month. I honestly could not afford any more than the £1k I paid for my Pitch and I had to sell an awful lot of stuff to afford it. I'm fiercly proud of it, just as I was of my £200 Emmelle I had as my first MTB. I would be very proud of that Carrera if it was mine. Perhaps the people on here who throw money they don't have, hiding purchases from SO's just to get the latest cool brand or upgrade to the boutique ofthe day manufacturer might learn a lesson from the Carrera owners.
Blimey, Rich, what have you started?
I'm sticking with my 'ugly' comment btw.
I see the Pitch in a completely different light to that Carrera. Rightly or wrongly I imagine it rides better than the Carrera.
Ps. Robdob- my frame and forks came in at less than a grand (brand new Santa Cruz Blur4x and almost new Fox 36 floats). The rest of my bike is seriously old. Well apart from my first new chainset in 6yrs (XT from on one two years ago) 😉
Be honest, if you really thought there was nothing wrong with it then you wouldn't think you had to justify buying it, the question wouldn't even enter your head.
I'll tell you what happened when I bought my Carerra, shall I?
I had a Cotic Roadrat. It wasn't quite right for what I wanted and it was p***ing me off something chronic because I kept getting punctures and it was a BITCH to get the back wheel out with gears, mudguards & rack....
So I flogged it for the same price I bought it for (£400) and went bike hunting. I was after an MTB-style commuter that I could also tour on this year, pulling a trailer. I looked at lots of bikes and considered them carefully, then went and bought a Carerra Subway One over all of them becasue it was just as well specced and £50+ cheaper. And you know what, although heavier (It will be with bigger wheels, tyres, beefier frame and forks and cheaper drivetrain) than the Cotic, I think it's a better bike. I prefer it, put it that way. Better riding position, more stable handling and not flexy like pasta when towing a trailer full of shopping.....
And it's not flash, it's covered in mudguards and panniers, so it's likely to be safe outside Tesco. 🙂
Yeah but it does get a similar amount of stick on here!!
Hora, yeah still want those calipers, been on holiday, sorry. Not in much tbh at the moment - I'll send you an email.
Eeek. Mixed reviews for proflex... and a tendency to crack?
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/show-us-your2009-proflex-768s ]http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/show-us-your2009-proflex-768s[/url]
Rightly or wrongly I imagine it rides better than the Carrera.
Seems pretty lame.
poppa expand please.
Rockshox Monarch 3.1 - Not many reviews out there but from memory it wasn't sung about.
The forks - Im not even going to get started on those.
No mentions of any angles or BB height.
Bits and pieces aren't too bad however no mention at all on the wheels used.
Don't get me wrong - its probably a great starting point however its still a thousand pounds. I'd rather go with a Specialized- the people who will also have budget bits on their full builds however their frame (the core) you KNOW it'll be sorted and of a certain level.
Full stop.
Buy a Carerra, then just like a Skoda driver, you'll ride around trying to justify how your bike is just as good as all of the decent brands, and you'll go on and on so much about it that you might even end up believing it yourself.But most probably somewhere in the back of your mind you'll wonder what you could have been riding if you'd got an extra paper-round, saved up for a few more months and bought something else. And you'll think that every time you go in the shed and look at it, when really what you deserve to be thinking is 'that's MY bike that is, and I can't wait to get out and ride it'.
What if you choose to spend less on bikes (or cars) than you can comfortably afford because you can see further than the stupid kind of 'my car defines me' thinking that this thread exemplifies in places 🙄
Price does not automatically equal function.
Just seems like a microcosm of brand snobbery! This might not be a valid assessment ( because I don't know your experience), but it sounds like you haven't ridden or researched into the Carrera, but have decided it won't ride as well as a pitch simply because you 'imagine' so, which sounds like a euphemism for prejudice.
EDIT: For all I know the Pitch is 100 times 'better' than the Carrerra - it's the dismissal of the Carrerra without any objective analysis that seems poor
I see the Pitch in a completely different light to that Carrera. Rightly or wrongly I imagine it rides better than the Carrera
I'd say it probably does, yes.
BUT
Remember me and Rob got our bikes for under a grand delivered, and the upgrade path I've taken mine on has cost me around £100-£200 (I've never added it up) with a bit of buying and selling to add an incredible amount of kit to it. Yes, I paid £300 for your Lyriks, but they only actually COST me £35 to upgrade....
(Right now I reckon I could nearly get back what I paid for mine, becasue I've been STUPIDLY careful with my money)
But a new Pitch is £1600.... (which to be frank I wouldn't pay)
Is it £650 better then a Carerra Banshee XXX?
No. It's not. Not even close.
Right now, at today's prices, I'd have the Carerra, no question. 🙂
Thats the thing. My budget is tight in fact most LBS dont stock a FS bike in my price range. Looking at Pauls cycles I have a large variety. I am going for the best spec I can get for the money. I will still have fun on the bike no doubt.
Its not all about the bike I just want as much as I can get for my money 🙂
Just seems like a microcosm of brand snobbery!
No. Specialized have won awards for their bikes with great reviews. Ergo the thinking is you could trust they have a knack now at developing how a bike rides?
The Carrera would be a 1k punt as there isn't the info out there or confidence in their product development. Unless you are allowed to take one out on the trails on a days trial from Halfords- Otherwise its sold as seen isn't it?
BTW- you can have the Pitch for alot cheaper than 1600 😉
Pitch vs Carrera
£1600 vs £950
If you have only £1000 - it's not a difficult connundrum.
Fair enough, maybe imagine wasn't the best word to use tho!
To put another angle on it, I spent £2000 or so on my bike which was a hell of a lot of money for a bike in my book (and most definitely the wife's). I most definitely did NOT want a Spesh/Giant/Trek because I wanted to have something different from everyone else. That was just my perception, right or wrong. I didn't realise quite what everyone else was riding at that time. But then that's me all over. I bought Vestax decks when everyone else bought Technics (and regretted it might I add!).
Would I buy a Carrera? Yes.
I cannot believe the snobbery of some people on here.
Carrera - made by a machine in Taiwan and subsequently cheap
Santa Cruz - made by a machine in Taiwan, then has a 'designed in the US of A' sticker desplayed prominently on the frame. Hideously expensive
You lot are a marketing mans wet dream
because I wanted to have something different from everyone else
I dont understand that statement 😕
Hideously expensive
£700 brand new, anodised VPP with RP23 rear shock and two year UK warranty.
soma_rich, what don't you understand?
£700 for a frame or £950 for a whole bike with a decent spec. Makes £700 expensive no matter what acronyms you use.
I'd see it as £950 wasted though. Everyones perception of value is different.
If I only had a grand (lets face it- a thousand pounds is alot of money) I'd rather buy 2ndhand than on that. I'm like a few others on here- money is important and I don't have it in buckets hence most of my purchases are either used or in the sale.
BTW- I bought two pairs of All Saints jeans this week for £32 each. Probably the same price as M&S jeans.
You see my philosophy? Let me wallet punch above its weight.
I dont have a choice. I have to buy new I have a cyclescheme voucher.
I would agree and buy a much better second hand bike.
I wouldn't buy one because
A) It's just another lardy full susser that rewards you for winching it uphill with being able to go slighly faster on a bashy descent, and
B) Their brand managers felt the need to lean on a [url= http://www.bansheebikes.com/ ]small Canadian company with a much better reputation for quality and integrity[/url] despite the almost total lack of overlap in their respective markets.
Hora - The operative word there hora is 'MANY' of your purchases. You change frames like I change underwear
Anyway - My Frames better than yours 😛
And I used to love my old Merida just because it offended you so much 😀
soma_rich isn't there anyone else who takes those vouchers? Does your work specify it has to be Halfords? If so I'd rather not bother- after all, your paying out for it yourself anyway at the end of the day?
http://www.on-one.co.uk/cycle-scheme
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOCAR456TRAIL/carbon-456-trail