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Which power meter -...
 

[Closed] Which power meter - Stages or Power2Max?

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Vectors for mtb coming soon

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Posted : 05/11/2016 11:09 am
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I can see that pod getting knocked off on the 1st ride..


 
Posted : 05/11/2016 11:10 am
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Oooh, vector for spd is attractive. I'd be willing to use XC shoes on road bikes in exchange for a meter i can use on all my bikes.


 
Posted : 05/11/2016 11:13 am
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Stages 105 for 299 at Sigma Sport in their early Black Friday section.

I can see why Garmin say the SPD vector is for commuting and not mtb! Pods are pretty robust but I'd be surprised if they lasted long on an mtb.


 
Posted : 21/11/2016 9:12 am
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XT gen 2 for 250 quid, [s]tempted[/s] purchased!


 
Posted : 21/11/2016 11:02 am
 adsh
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My Gen 1 XTR stages about to go back to Saddleback. Repeated drop out on last ride.


 
Posted : 21/11/2016 11:44 am
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After everything I've read I'd never get a Stages... but then I did 🙂 For 250 quid, it won't be on a bike I rely on, and hoping the gen 2 is a bit more sorted than the gen 1, so worth a punt. At least their customer care sounds very good!


 
Posted : 21/11/2016 12:52 pm
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my stage has been brilliant in over 12 months - on the 3rd battery.

no jet washing or riding in heavy rain though


 
Posted : 21/11/2016 1:45 pm
 adsh
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I'ts been pretty good up till now. I have a sneaking suspicion that Duracell batteries are slightly smaller. It's not a battery drain issue it just drops out and the only way to get it back is to take the battery out and reseat. Not something you want to do when the arm is covered in crap.

I don't jet wash but if I can't use an XTR crank arm in wet mud it's useless to me.


 
Posted : 21/11/2016 2:54 pm
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Do Stages recommend any particular brand of battery? May make a note of what it comes supplied with.


 
Posted : 21/11/2016 2:57 pm
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Mine came with Panasonic but every time I went to the shop and they wanted me to try a firmware update and a new battery, they'd give me Duracell.

I wonder if the quality on C2032 batteries is variable in general. I've used Maxell, Panasonic, Duracell, Energizer, cheapos from the pound shop....and whilst some are better than others it doesn't seem that one particular brand is better. I've had Duracell ones last just a day and cheapos last a few months. But then the opposite, just when I thought I'd find a reliable brand.

Seems the battery, touch wood, doesn't drain on my G2 like the G1 did but I wouldn't say I'm getting anywhere near the ~200 hours that Stages quote.


 
Posted : 21/11/2016 9:30 pm
 Haze
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My 2nd gen needs a battery swap every ride...interestingly it won't accept the same battery reseated, I have to use a different one to wake it up. But can re-use at a later date.

Similar pattern for the last few weeks since using the winter bike, doesn't matter if it's been outdoors or just on the turbo.

Guess it works but it's a bit a PITA when I'm rushing out to meet folk.


 
Posted : 22/11/2016 11:38 pm
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Does sound a right PITA. My 2nd gen XT arrived today. At least it only cost me 260 quid 😕


 
Posted : 23/11/2016 12:21 am
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On the flip side I had a mk1 x9 that had no issues for almost 2 years, only removed as I switched to XTR cranks

7900 dura ace stages on the road bike too, no issues in 18 months


 
Posted : 23/11/2016 2:04 am
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Interesting to read that other people are getting problems now.

Both me and one of my sons have been experiencing problems the last couple of weeks, apparent flat batteries and dropouts. Both G2 105 cranks.

I always buy batteries from supermarkets or well know shops, there are lots of fakes around. I changed both of our batteries recently and they both went flat within a week, repeated this and the same happened again. I thought it might be a battery batch so have changed brands. We went out on Sunday and my son's would not pair, so I put in one of the new batteries and but during the ride he was getting long dropouts.

I did a bit of reading up and one thing it might be is the delicate battery tangs flattening over time (allowing the battery to move and lose contact). I very carefully pulled the tangs out slightly.

The other thing I did was to 'unpair' the power meter and then manually add the ANT+ ID instead of searching for it. Apparently, if you do this and it drops out it tries to connect back to the same ANT+ device, if you have searched for it when setting up it then searches for devices again (giving a much longer dropout in comms).

He used it last night and he said it was fine, we are out for a couple of hours tonight so I can see how they both perform.


 
Posted : 23/11/2016 8:44 am
 gray
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Quarq seem to be doing a trade-in offer:

http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/quarq-trade-in-222-c.asp

E.g. the new DFour Shimano 4-bolt pattern carbon crank for £726 (instead of £968). They'll accept more or less any direct force power meter (doesn't have to work) for the trade-in. Almost worth hunting down something old / cheap / broken on eBay...


 
Posted : 01/12/2016 10:11 am
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What the....?

http://road.cc/content/tech-news/213543-introducing-arofly-“-worlds-smallest-power-meter”-video

Funny that the "so how does it work" bit doesn't actually tell you how it's working!


 
Posted : 06/12/2016 2:05 pm
 wors
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aye, just seen that ^^

Think ill wait until they have tested one...


 
Posted : 06/12/2016 2:07 pm
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Made a bit of an impulse buy yesterday with Canyons sale on theVector 2. Do you still need a torque wrench to install?

Have resisted them for so long as i didnt want to move from SPD-SL, but its the cheapest way to get power on my track bike so i'll learn to live with the Keo cleats!


 
Posted : 08/12/2016 7:25 pm
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 gray
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Well done on getting the Canyon bargain - all gone by the time I looked!


 
Posted : 08/12/2016 8:56 pm
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Good & bad G1 Ultegra gave up after a long fight inc removing battery after ride & replacing it but got it upgraded to a G2, the G2 XTR after no probs ridden & raced over 8 moths in all conditions has also started to play up 🙁 Gotta add though the after sales from SB & Stages is beyond excellent.


 
Posted : 08/12/2016 9:40 pm
 gray
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SB?


 
Posted : 08/12/2016 10:20 pm
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Saddleback; Stages distributor.

That Arofly thing looks mental. Not in a good way. The next "Limits"?!


 
Posted : 08/12/2016 10:25 pm
 gray
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Ah, OK.

Yes, I have doubts about that AroFly thing...


 
Posted : 08/12/2016 10:44 pm
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An update from me.

One of my Stages power drain issues was sorted by (very) delicately pulling out the battery prongs (I think it was actually lack of contact rather than flat batteries). I tried the same on the second one but it did not cure it. I thought it may be a battery batch issue so bought some more (reputable shop) but it was still draining batteries within a couple of days.

Saddleback replaced the unit very quickly. It was interesting to see that this replacement was a refurb unit. Last time it was for a new retail arm. I don't have a problem with that, but it was an interesting observation, they must have had so many returns that they are now refurbishing them.

The third Stages in our household drained one battery very quickly but appeared to be OK tonight (one week on). I will keep an eye on it.

All cranks are G2.

It would be interesting to see what the return rates are on Stages power meters, it must cost them a fortune. Hopefully they will resolve the issues at some point. It is like the electronics stop going into a power saving sleep mode. They still seem to work fine when you put a new battery in.


 
Posted : 08/12/2016 10:57 pm
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 Haze
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Gone through a dozen batteries in my 2nd gen, after yesterday's ride I took the battery out as soon as I got home. Hoping that this will rule in or out any sleep issues.

If it doesn't work I'll open a ticket with support, it's really starting to grate having to spend time faffing around with batteries before every ride.

They were excellent in replacing my 1st gen, must be costing them a fortune...


 
Posted : 09/12/2016 9:03 pm
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That Arofly thing looks mental. Not in a good way. The next "Limits"?!
Limits made some engineering sense even if the company didn't. That Arofly thing looks the snakiest of snake oils


 
Posted : 09/12/2016 9:11 pm
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Went to use my warranty replacement today for the second time and guess what, the battery was flat!! Stuck a new one in and it was constantly dropping out during the ride. I have just removed the battery and the contacts look flat so I have levered them up again. I am hoping that it was a false flat battery and that the dropouts were due to the poor contact.


 
Posted : 11/12/2016 12:23 am
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Limits made some engineering sense even if the company didn't. That Arofly thing looks the snakiest of snake oils

I've got a Powerpod which seems to work great and DCR, who knows a fair bit about powermeters, agrees despite loads of random people on the internet who can't get their heads around none direct force power meters saying it can't possibly work.

There are a lot of people trying to sidestep the dfpm issues entirely and this is shaping up to be another possible option. People need to get over the idea that strain gauges are the only way of working out power.

I'd bet good money that this time next year that Arofly thing or whatever it's called is a better option than Limits.


 
Posted : 11/12/2016 12:42 am
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There are a lot of people trying to sidestep the dfpm issues entirely and this is shaping up to be another possible option. People need to get over the idea that strain gauges are the only way of working out power.

The derived force only seem to have one advantage, price. And with direct force getting cheaper year on year (you can get a Stages for less than a powerpod) I don't see much future for them unless they offer some additional advantages (e.g. portability) or features (e.g. CdA estimations.)


 
Posted : 11/12/2016 9:44 am
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Well, compared to stages some of them seem to be as lot more reliable for a start.


 
Posted : 11/12/2016 10:11 am
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This has probably been asked already, but 1100 posts is a lot to wade through 🙂

What are the most cost effective options for using power on more than one bike? If they were both road bikes, I guess Vectors would be worth a look, but what about an mtb & a 'cross bike?


 
Posted : 11/12/2016 4:13 pm
 Haze
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Little update on my Stages...I whipped the battery out immediately after my last ride to see if would wake up first time with the same battery.

It worked, whereas previously it would have needed a replacement.

Could this be anything to do with the temperature of the batteries (I kept it in the house) or are the PM's just not sleeping properly?

Anyway, one other thing maybe/maybe not related...it needed calibrating mid-ride, first time ever it's done that.

This seems as good a place to ask instead of starting a new thread - the ride is logged in TrainingPeaks and I now have a few new best peaks that aren't exactly accurate. I can manually adjust the TSS down to something about right, but is there any way I can tell TP to ignore the peaks?

Guess I could delete the whole ride and add back in manually, but would like to keep it if possible.


 
Posted : 11/12/2016 4:49 pm
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strip out the bad data

https://www.fitfiletools.com/#/peak#view


 
Posted : 11/12/2016 4:52 pm
 Haze
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Useful link, thanks!


 
Posted : 11/12/2016 5:05 pm
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2. Do you still need a torque wrench to install?

Yes you do. Needs a huge 40nm and if not torqued correctly can get large variations in readings.

One of the mag's has done a decent long term test of several netres that they've made a lengthy video of on YouTube. After watching it I deleted the Vectors from my Canyon basket.

Edit:

[Video]

Probably posted before, but we are over 1100 posts in now!


 
Posted : 11/12/2016 6:36 pm
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Powerpod makes sense though. You can se how it would work. The same isn't true of arofly. Its not at all clear how it could possibly work unless it is doing something like trying to work is conjunction with an hrm


 
Posted : 11/12/2016 6:43 pm
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Must have been quite lucky with my vectors, they've been trouble free. So far it's been...

PowerTap Pro hub - never had a problem with it
Power2Max - been fine
Vectors - started as an S then upgraded with a second pedal, no problems, on the winter road bike so see some filthy conditions
PowerTap Pro hub - dead out of the box, sent back for refund
PowerTap C1 - first set readings way out, replaced with a second set which have been good so far
Stages XT - installed but yet to be used!


 
Posted : 11/12/2016 7:39 pm
 Haze
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This Stages is really starting to boil my piss now, getting calibration readings over 1200


 
Posted : 13/12/2016 9:40 pm
 Haze
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Just in case anyone else gets this, had a swift response from Stages (they're good at that) suggesting moisture. Battery out, cover off and leave it somewhere warm and dry for 12 hours...calibration readings back to normal.

Bit annoying.


 
Posted : 14/12/2016 9:07 pm
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The warranty stages unit that I have had for a couple of weeks is on its third battery. I have to send three back tomorrow for assessment! !!!


 
Posted : 18/12/2016 7:23 am
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