Yup, I agree entirely.
That said, prior to calibration and new firmware the Kickr was recording about 40w higher at typical levels, but since then they've tracked fairly closely. I guess a better test would be put the kickr in erg mode in some form of pyramid power over an hour and compare that to the stages output. Of course even if they still matched relatively closely it's still just an arbitrary number.
The kickr gets mostly used on zwift, so hopefully it's an inflated arbitrary number. 🙂
Interesting comment on the kickr accuracy. Heard quite a lot about them drifting to the extent that people were running them off external PMs. Has put me off a bit.
I guess with regards multiple PMs it's consistency that's important and you can usually set a slope or scaling factor to compensate on most. Need to do so on the Vectors to bring them in line with P2M and PowerTap.
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/05/pioneer-system-review.html
I'll take two of anyone's feeling genorous 😉
Mmm, interesting. Not keen on the US/Euro pricing, but does look a great option.
It'd be amazing if we could get 'em for $999, although I assume (maybe wrong) that doesn't include cranks. Not actually properly looked as they don't appear to be available in the UK.
Shame the head unit doesn't seem like a viable Garmin alternative.
Is there actually any benefit for training on an MTB using power?
I would've thought that the nature of MTB riding would mean that any power figures would be difficult to maintain unless on a longish climb or a fire road section.
seems you can now pickup the 105 5700 stages power meter with 20% off at a few places, that brings it down to £480.
I'm assuming its because the new units at on 105 5800, I'm assuming the actual strain gauge is going to be the same....anyone know if thats the case?
Same with the 7900 dura-ace, saw a post on WW saying it was being cleared out at $450 or thereabouts
Tech wise they will be the same
very very close to getting a stages. slight worry they there is about to be a massive reduction in the price of the things but you could always say that and never get one. just need to prepare myself for some disappointingly low numbers
be nice if stages made the 7900 arm a reduction in europe 🙄
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4iiii are shipping LH pods, but they have to install them, $50 more than when they launched, which I think was always the plan. They're saying carbon cranks and RH pods will follow.
I'm not holding my breath. My masters dissertation was on 'power meters' for carbon ice hockey sticks. It's pretty difficult for a few reasons.
1) carbon bends in weird ways.
2) carbon gets softer over time as the laminate starts to break down.
3) gluing stuff to carbon in such a way that the glue isn't so flexible that it absorbs all the bend rather than transmit to the power meter is difficult (and we were trying to glue the strain gauges right into the laminate, not just epoxy a plastic box onto the surface which would be even trickier).
I'd like a cheap power meter, and I have carbon cranks, but I won't be buying a 4iiii in a hurry.
slight reduction of the 7900 in the Stages EU shop
http://www.stagescycling.eu/shop/TRIATHLON/Shimano/Stages-Power-Meter-Dura-Ace-7900.html
Cheaper than 105 now.
Someone was telling me that 7900 arms aren't cross compatible with 9000 chain sets, I was cynical. Anyone know? Strikes me they're close enough aesthetically, not like you ever see both together. I'd not pay much of a premium for a 9000 arm!
Curious. I've certainly mixed old and new 105 and Ultegra LH and RH crank parts with no issues. Would seem a bit odd for them to change the 9000 arm.
says they are compatible on the US stages site, you need a proxy to view it though
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not the first place id think of looking for a cheap Stages
http://www.shopto.net/cycling/top-brands/stage/store
Limits have been beaten to it! Kind of.... 😀
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[url= http://www.merlincycles.com/stages-power-shimano-ultegra-6700-power-meter-85003.html?utm_source=Merlin+Cycles&utm_campaign=0dac55aa91-Week_28_Monday_Mega_Deals&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_efec82f678-0dac55aa91-260368185&mc_cid=0dac55aa91&mc_eid=0b7cc29e06 ]Stages 6700 Ultegra[/url] £399 at Merlin for anyone interested.. not sure whether this is a price drop, but assume it is...
It's because it's old ultegra not current 6800 series, functionally the sane just cosmetically different
Good option
Those BePro pedals look good for €749. Cheapest proper dual sided power meter?
Froome testing new prototype Stages at the Tour ([url= http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/froome-testing-stages-prototype-power-meter-at-tour-de-france ]here[/url]). Maybe they'll get it right with version 2.0.
No one appearing to rock dual sided though.
Market seems to have gone a bit quiet after a raft of announcements. Not much out there on PowerTap P1, 4iiii, BePro etc which have all released.
Got my 4i now. Gives similar readings to stages and kickr, so I'm assuming they're all roughly right. I think 4i are still having some production, battery, and accuracy issues. Though it does strike me as a bit odd that only some people have battery issues when in theory you've got identical electronics in each device.
Same story with Stages though, wasn't it?
Nah, everyone had issues with Stages 🙂
Stages X9 and Rival GXP dropped to €499 at stage euro shop
£352
(£255 in the US)
my interest in to the power market, my have been upped with the P1
P1 does look interesting but read they don't use standard Keo cleats, which would be a bit annoying if you use the same shoes on different bikes.
The BePro looks worth of attention too. DCR review due shortly.
Do you think the stages are worth a punt at that reduced price? I've been hanging on to see if I could get a decent deal on vectors without much luck.
I've been put off by several friends with utterly woeful reliability. Personally I'd not buy one. I think we'll see another round of price cuts and new products in the next few months. The problem is that that's always about to happen, so when do you jump off?!
Wife and I have had stages now for over a year, I know that because mine decided to not calibrate properly after 13 months. No hesitation or issues from stages new crank in lbs within a couple of weeks. Had the reported battery issues with both arms but new doors and being sensible about not spraying the power meter with hose when washing, not had any issues within the last 6 months. Both used nearly daily.
Ultegra's are down to £399 - quidco cashaback on Merlin Cycles
I find it hard to see past the quarq riken tbh. £640 for a tried and tested system that measures both legs, and I have heard nothing but good things about the latest ones. Mine tracks very well with a couple of powertaps I have. It is always about 3 watts higher as you would expect. I have done a fair few thousand miles on it now without issue.
no issues with my GXP stages, had it well over a year now, well i say no issues, the battery life is short, but it is stood a lot as i don't use the MTB as much as my road bike, but batteries are pennies anyway and i don't see that as an issue
my Powertap on the road bike has been back twice in a year, id happily replace it with a Stages
iamconfusedagain - [geeky weirdo] Have you ever stuck both PM's on a bike and compared the power readings at the start of the life of a chain/cassette and then again at the end? I often wonder if we'd actually see a measurable difference? My chain and cassette is ****ed on the mileage bike again and I've semi convinced myself I can feel it after riding the race bike at the weekend...(it's in my head but is it......)[geek]
Where is the Quarg £650? Looking on usual sites is closer to 800ish
Probably been mentioned somewhere in the last 17 pages, but P2M BOR cranks (and some FSA) are now £475 (same price as Stages 6700 from merlin and a 5800 chainset).
Not sure whether to pull the trigger and find out quite how poor my Watt's are* or whether to hold off and see if this really is the start of power meters becoming affordable across the board, if they'd drop down to ~£500 consistently I'd be tempted**.
*OTOH I made it to 320W on a ramp test last night on Trainerroad before it ran out, need to try it again on Thursday with a higher initial estimate and see, so maybe I'm not so bad (*0.73 and /95 is equivalent to 2.5w/kg).
**the tart in me doesn't want miss-matched cranks
Update on my XTR stages replacement, and all is good especially since last firmware install. Went to check one of my ultegra's ones that hasn't been used in a while as this is sometimes where I have had battery draining issues (when crank has been idle). No problems picked up and calibrated straight away.
Didn't find that cheap quarg and from what I read it is not true left/right balance either so no better than a single sided device (unless I read the wrong link...) unless you go for the (even) more expensive version.
Are those BOR cranks any good though? And you need to factor in chainring costs
My mouse is hovering over a rival stages for £375 from merlin.
I wish they hadn't put rival on it though - why couldn't they just leave it as sram?
£640 + chainrings
http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/quarq-riken-al-gxp-3230-p.asp?variantid=3234
It's mounted on the spider so it is measuring left and right power, but it's only measuring it in total, an amount of power is used to push the rising leg back up, so pedal based systems can generate far more data (like a Wattbike can) on where the imbalance is. You could in theory have a weaker left leg both up an down, but Quark/SRM/P2M would show an even split between the legs as all it sees is the right leg compensating by pushing down harder to lift the left, then lifting itself up compensating for the lesser push from the left leg, so the right and left power strokes are even even if the legs aren't (or it might show a difference when there isn't one).
No idea, can't find any reviews, but Tune haven't had a good reputation over the last few years so I'm not so sure I'd be confident, OTOH, do road cranks have a hard life, I've never seen a broken, bent or worn out one? On their own they're £350 cranks so they can't be that bad, probably not worth £350 Vs DA9000 or Red, but still?Are those BOR cranks any good though? And you need to factor in chainring costs
Didn't find that cheap quarg and from what I read it is not true left/right balance either so no better than a single sided device (unless I read the wrong link...) unless you go for the (even) more expensive version.
Didn't read it wrong, but misunderstood.
The only power meters that truly measure both sides are those with two entirely independent sets of strain gauges - Pioneer, Vector, P1 etc. Whilst the Quarq (not Quarg) plus P2M, SRM etc are measuring total power (not merely doubling the left output a la Stages) because the sensors are all on the RH side they can't [i]actually[/i] tell the difference between pulling up with your right foot and pushing down with your left.
Ride around with one leg clipped in with a P2M and you'll get a 97%:3% L:R split or something, it picks up the power used to 'lift' the pedal if you're not clipped in. Still a lot better than only having one side.
iamconfusedagain - [geeky weirdo] Have you ever stuck both PM's on a bike and compared the power readings at the start of the life of a chain/cassette and then again at the end? I often wonder if we'd actually see a measurable difference? My chain and cassette is ****ed on the mileage bike again and I've semi convinced myself I can feel it after riding the race bike at the weekend...(it's in my head but is it......)[geek]
I have never noticed a difference. Like you I check this kind of thing 🙂 You can see a change when you clean up a mucky chain, at least a couple of watts.
DC Rainmaker review of Powertap P1 pedals. Short version - he really likes them.
[url= http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/08/powertap-p1-pedals-review.html ]http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/08/powertap-p1-pedals-review.html[/url]
he like them as it seems despite all his knowledge and tech nounce he's hamfisted and likes the fact you can switch them easily,
i cracked a polar pod once when installing, so yes it makes the P1's less hassle than the other pedal options on the market,
but installing a bb and a cranks is basic basic stuff, on par with pedals, which surely makes Quarq/Stages/Power2Max/SRM as easy to fit,
