[Closed] What's wrong with cycle paths?

Often covered in glass, blocked by people walking, parked cars, impractical give ways every 20m, etc...

I'll use them if they're well designed, not if they're not.

Provision of well designed cycle facilities is the key, not the box ticking ones we often get.

because they make them dificult and more dangerous than needsbe - its a definant after thought in most cases. Anyone whos cycled on the continents cycle paths will understand what i mean. We are not second class citizens and what the councils are providing will not force us off the roads.

i ride the deeside way cycle path because its well through out and safe to ride.

i do not ride the path from town to dyce as its lethal , crossing the road at stupid points , giving way to every junction on the route, sharp corners gates and signs in stupid places - id rather take my chances on the road.

IME

Some cycle paths don't get maintained,so they can be a bit of a puncture fest for road bike riders.

Some (shared )cycle lanes are not good for doing over 15mph .

Some Cycle paths are badly signed ,so the cyclists miss the start and then end up on the road and just stay there.

Oh, and this

Provision of well designed cycle facilities is the key, not the box ticking ones we often get

I agree, there are too many badly designed ones out there - but what bemuses me is that both the Ashurst path (despite being a little overgrown in parts) and the A33 path are among the better ones I've used. They're both part of the NCN and are both really well signed - plus the road. especially the A33 is just nasty.

Wot Clubber said basically, but there is the odd cyclist that does it just to be awkward or because they simply aren't aware enough to realise they exist.

haha the police dont like it when your quote the shared cyclepath speed limit to them as a reason for not using it.

i got it once for Time trialing down the a92 dundee to arbroath with a tail wind.... i was averaging 25mph till i got pulled over at the dip near muirdrum.

road was quiet and it was at night - i had plenty bright lights on and a high vis top.

It's not an obligation to use it. On the road bike when I'm out for a long ride there are a few I avoid as they're pitted and lumpy and have all these barriers when they're crossed by roads or other footpaths. Some are great so very happy to stick with them.

I guess that the other point is that we're not obliged to use them so it's our choice. I agree that it seems silly not to use them if they're good ones but the fact that there are so many bad ones means that I often don't even think about going onto the cycle lane if there's one just because I'm used to riding on the 'proper' road.

a92 arbroath to dundee with a tail wind

That is a fast bit of road 😉

The problem i have with 'long good sections of cyclepath' is getting onto the bloody things! More than a few times ive been riding down a road only to realise that there is a cyclepath either on the other side of the road or on the other side of a verge, with no way to get to them!

If they are making these 'good' facilities then they need to be easilly accesed with proper ways to join/leave the path/carriage way. Often tho they end at a set of pedestrian lights or barriers, when in reality there should be proper slip-road style features to allow cyclists to rejoin the road safely and without having to stop.

I think that's certainly the problem with the A33 one. If you didn't know where to pick it up you might not be aware of it.

Everything from getting on and off them, having bad surfaces covered in glass or pot holes, one of the ones round here has gates and things on it which aren't too easy to ride around/through. Plus they ones around here are shared use. I ride my bike because I like the speed. Nothing more annoying than having to slow right down because you dont want to scare/hurt a jogger or someone walking their dog.

"That is a fast bit of road "

I know i used to ride the cycle path most days to uni - if the wind was right though id often take to the road to get home in half the time as it was mostly downhill 😀

I guess that the other point is that we're not obliged to use them so it's our choice. I agree that it seems silly not to use them if they're good ones but the fact that there are so many bad ones means that I often don't even think about going onto the cycle lane if there's one just because I'm used to riding on the 'proper' road.

This.

Plus the fact that pedestrians are often - understandably - unnerved by people riding fast on shared use cycle paths, as the speed differential is considerable. I ride fast, I think its safer for everyone if I ride on the road.

A notable exception I've found recently however is the cycle path route from Glasgow Green to the new velodrome complex. Rebuilding the roads in the area has given planners a clean slate to work with, and they've done a pretty good job IMO. The cycle path shares with the pavement, but its wide, so there's plenty of room, and the path leaves and joins the road sensibly at each junction with a large ASL box, so as a cyclist you aren't needlessly giving way at each set of lights.

I think the issue planners have in most urban areas is the width of road and pavement available, and the cost involved in changing this.

All the problems that people have already mentioned about bad cycle paths mean that my default position on a road that I don't know is to use the main carriageway.

Some of the ones I do use in London are only usable with heavy-duty tyres as they regularly feature smashed bottles and shopping trollies, sometimes even burnt-out cars. If I went down there on a road bike, I wouldn't be too pleased about hanging around having to fix a puncture.

It's only really on routes that I ride regularly that I can make an informed decision on which way to go. The road is almost always going to free of debris and stupid junctions that make you stop all the time.

Ashurst and Lyndhurst

fairly decent

hmm. it's surfaced so poorly that it's really hard work to cycle on it, bits of it are quite gravelly.

on the road bike it's easier in the road. on the mtb, the tyres take out most of the uneveness.

+ it's not really that busy a road.

The other problem with shared use ones outside the cities is that they are often unlit. There is no requirement for pedestrians to carry lights or anything, and its very difficult to see anything silhouetted against the oncoming car headlights.

The DFT cycle lane guidelines point this out, but all the councils seem to ignore it.

Of course, they maybe be a brilliant cycle lane that someone is ignoring, but who knows why they're doing it? Much like the people sat in the outside lane of an empty motorway etc.. There might not be a good reason.

The problem with most of them being rubbish is you tend to choose the road by default, thus missing the odd good one.

I recently cycled through Kent, and found a cycle path (on the NCN) that went across seven minor roads in a stretch of about 1 mile. How is that better than using the road?

Cycle paths are put there for several reasons:
to fulfil the councils obligation to ringfence a percentage of their road-building grants for "green" schemes
to get those pesky cyclists off the roads so that all the car drivers don't have to contend with the inconvenience of having their journey delayed by 2 seconds

So most are put there with a dash of green and white paint, a badly drawn cyclist logo and no thought. They're rarely put there to safeguard cyclists or speed up their journey or negotiate a tricky junction safely. When they are, I might consider using them. Until then, I'll carry on riding my ROAD bike on the road - the clue is in the name...

Here's one that is rubbish 🙂

(see youtube page for my description)

The only reason anyone shuns (poorly designed, built and maintained) cycle paths is because the roads are more efficient for cycling on.

Create efficient cycle paths and they will be used too.

I normally shun the things. They have a habit of taking circuitous routes, are badly surfaced and interrupted by road crossings. However, I was happy to use the route 71 into and through Workington/Whitehaven as it was direct and save me the hassle of navigation. The wee downhill bit through the forest above Bassenthwaite Lake could have been a bit better for my tourer though. That just highlights the inconsistency.

I used to use the cyclepath alongside the A13 to go from Canary Wharf to Dagenham as part of my commute - that's one of the better cycle paths I've seen as it's essentially half of a 2-carriageway wide footpath (I assume that the extra width was created in case the road ever needs widening in the future?)

The problem there is that it's full of glass and other debris, so I had to fit armadillo tyres plus slime inner tubes to avoid punctures every other day.

Here is one that is actually quite good, gets used by commuters but still seems to be shunned by some, particularly roadies:

[img] [/img]
http://goo.gl/maps/k5Zx9

As you can see it runs parallel to the road (Scotswood Road near Newcastle), has a nice wide smooth surface, free from glass and you rarely see a single pedestrian on it.

When I ride along that path I have to cross the main road three times at toucan crossings and cross two quiet side streets that usually just need a slow-down-and-glance.

But if I was to ride on the A-road (which has painted gutter cycle lanes for part of the way) then I'd have to deal with three major roundabouts and [b]twelve[/b] sets of traffic lights. So the whole [i]"road is faster, less interruptions"[/i] argument really doesn't hold for that stretch - but some people still prefer to ride on the road there.

More power to them - but I don't understand it. 😕

(For anyone that missed it I discussed my lovely commute along Sustrans cycle paths a couple of months ago: [b][url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/in-praise-of-sustrans-and-traffic-free-cycle-paths-photos ]In Praise of Sustrans and Traffic-Free Cycle Paths (photos)[/url][/b]. Conclusion: good cycle paths rock, but they are rare. Join Sustrans and your local cycle group if you'd like to see more!)

DezB: I don't think those are cycle lanes in your video - I think they are just supposed to remind drivers coming out of the side streets to look for bikes.

What they should really do is a raised hump across the side street, Dutch-style, to slow drivers down as they enter/exit it.

GrahamS,

90degree turn from road onto pavement, just asking for trouble. number of times i have seen similar and had to negotiate ice in the gutter as a result.
pavement isn't that wide, it is amazing how hard it is for people to excercise lane discipline on the pavement.

I have a similar stretch on my commute, which i sometimes use. Dog walkers with leads across the whole path, runners with ipods, and cyclists comning the other way who want to keep away from the lorries, even though it means they are on the wrong side of the pavement.

Just easier to stick to the roads, car drivers may be a nightmare but they tend to be more predictable in what they do.

"Dog walkers with leads across the whole path, runners with ipods, and cyclists comning the other way who want to keep away from the lorries,"

M-part mega horn

I started with a bell , this is fine for a walker with a dog.... but the ipod brigade - other cyclists who weave all over the cycle path etc etc ....

still have teh bell and use judgement but if they ignore the bell i use the horn and they exit their skin via the top of their head !

Having had a few near misses with joggers with ipods going on dual use roads/paths here, I'm starting to avoid them unless it's a bit out of the normal time of day for them. I've had one collision with an oblivious pedestrian and I'm not keen for another as although I came off worse, it could have been much worse for her had I not dumped myself into a barrier so I only glanced off her.

90degree turn from road onto pavement

Nah, there are nice dropped kerbs that can be taken at an angle if you are transitioning from road to pavement. Some roadies skip onto the pavement section to avoid stopping at the lights then skip back down again.
(personally I'm already on the pavement and stay there along that stretch).

Only 90degree turns are at the toucan crossing where you're not exactly at speed anyway.

pavement isn't that wide

Look at the Google aerial photos: it's about as wide as a single lane of the road, only a [u]lot[/u] quieter.

Just easier to stick to the roads

It's situation-dependent, lots of places are bad, but I can say with some certainty that it is not easier to stick to the road along this bit.

It's situation-dependent, lots of places are bad, but I can say with some certainty that it is not easier to stick to the road along this bit.

I think this is the problem, you know the path, you know it is safe, i don't and going by my knowledge i would go on the road.

For reference i did try and use a section of one sustrans route, it is signposted as such? It was surfaced in what appeared to be slate chippings!!!! WTF!!!! another section was farm track which when dry isn't too bad on a road bike, when wet gets unpleasant.

I think this is the problem, you know the path, you know it is safe, i don't and going by my knowledge i would go on the road.

Yeah very true. I think there is just a general expectation that any cycling facility will be crap in this country. And sadly that is an expectation that has been set by experience.

But there [i]are[/i] good paths out there and even a few excellent ones - so I'd urge everyone to at least scout them out.

enzee, take off those rose coloured specs!

fairly decent and long stretch of cycle path

I live in Ashurst and ride along there frequently. Its the worst surface of any cycle path I've seen - loose gravel and bumpy as hell. Its not wide enough to pass a cyclist going teh other way without getting dangerously close to traffic doing 60 on the carriageway (there's no segregation with the carriageway). Its also covered in leaves and twigs, and has a fair amount of pedestrian use so forever dodging kids and dogs. I always use the road, especially on my road bike.

Also, the carriageway was not reduced to construct this - there was always a tarmac footpath but it was overgrown and broken up. Such a shame the verderers wouldn't allow a nice, quiet proper woodland track the other side of teh fence!

I do agree with Millbrook Road though - I wouldn't chance it on the dual carriageway with all the filter roads - but stretches of the cycleway there are very poorly design and badly maintained. Notably the unsighted bend with side pedestrian access by Redbridge roundabout, and the crossing by Millbrook roundabout which sees someone getting run over every few weeks it seems (generally because people jump the crossing thinking they can see a gap in the traffic).

It really boils my pi55 as with just a little planning and minimal expenditure these installations could have been so much more usable!

- especially when, like with the Ashurst path this means narrowing the road...

Also a reason why pointless, rubbish lanes exist - as well as ticking the "green" box, they can tick the "traffic calmed by narrowing the main traffic lanes" box.

It really boils my pi55 as with just a little planning and minimal expenditure these installations could have been so much more usable!

Which is why you joined Sustrans and your local cycling group to make sure your money is more wisely spent in the future... ?

Depend when/where/why/what I'm riding.

A Sunday club run is going to be a ball ache putting 20 riders down badly painted pavement covered in the remains of Saturday night's broken bottles and vomit.

Pootling into work or ridign the mountainbike from Wokingham to Swinely on the other hand I'll happily use one if it's well designed.

If there's a benifit to using it then I will, if there's not then there's no point.

Does Sustrans provide any sort of key for whether routes are road bike friendly or not as some (even [url= http://goo.gl/maps/zZNbK ]some of the road sections[/url]) are awful? I've not really used the cycle network before the other week and was surprised how poor a lot of the surfacing on that route was.

The cycle network in Edinburgh is amazing - I use it daily. In all the years I've been bombing up the Telford/Roseburn cyclepath I've only had one issue where I hit a black lab. In the dark. So basically an invisible lab! It didn't seem too bothered and I didn't crash. The owner apologised.

Yes - I did have lights - a Hope R4. Still not enough to see a lab dashing about in the bushes.

Which is why you joined Sustrans and your local cycling group to make sure your money is more wisely spent in the future... ?

No, i took the direct action approach, lobbied Hants CC and local councils, roadside protests etc until a crossing was put in across the dual carriagway and that Sustrans route mentioned above actually linked all the way from Lyndhurst through Totton to get to Southampton (and the local kids could get to school without fear of death)

Does Sustrans provide any sort of key for whether routes are road bike friendly or not as some (even some of the road sections) are awful? I've not really used the cycle network before the other week and was surprised how poor a lot of the surfacing on that route was.

It has to be said, most cycle paths are primarily designed for mountain bikes and leisure riding. What you don't notice on a mountain bike can be a very real hazard on a road bike.

No, i took the direct action approach, lobbied Hants CC and local councils, roadside protests etc

Nice one! Good on you. 😀

Too many people complain but don't do anything at all. Even just a small donation and another signature on a member's list can help.

A customer of ours in the shop I worked in in st Andrew's refused to use the cycle path after he had an accident on it.

The path ran parallel to an a road but where a golf course access road closed off by a gate joined the main road the cycle path had a give way sign. Which is mad, surely the give way should be for the joining road? I rode this for 4 years before I found out cyclists had to give way as it wasn't painted on the road.

Our customer was riding along and a truck pulled out of the gated road and hit the bike's rear wheel and guy's leg. This was an articulated lorry weighing about 50 tons loaded. His leg was crushed, bones in many many many pieces and he was very lucky to recover. He will never mountain bike again though.

That's a pretty good reason for not using one in my mind, poor design. This is all too common with most of these paths. Further on the path it is not wide enough to accommodate two cyclists passing each other in opposite directions. Too many give ways, too narrow, too unclear, incorrect priorities.

Having said this, most of the time on big dangerous a roads I will use them because they will be safer.

[i]DezB: I don't think those are cycle lanes in your video - I think they are just supposed to remind drivers coming out of the side streets to look for bikes.[/i]

That's interesting that.. it begs the questions:
"Why do they need [i]reminding[/i] to look for bikes?!";
"Why, in that case, hasn't [i]every[/i] side road got them?";
and (apart from the moron who designed them)
"Who knows [i]exactly[/i] what they mean and is it documented?"

That's interesting that.. it begs the questions..

Indeed! All very valid questions.

Seems like some random road engineers attempt at emulating something he half remembered from a "good cycling facility" presentation:

[img] [/img]