[Closed] What makes a Chris King or DT Swiss hub worth £280+

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-dt-swiss-240-ss-qr-disc-hub-spline-6-bolt-adapter ]i do you special price[/url]

Would I really notice any difference over a Hope at around half that, or a lesser known brand at around half that again ?

No.

CK and DT hubs might [i]cost[/i] loads, but they aren't [i]worth[/i] that sort of money. It's just a hub.

That's what I was thinking.
They probably all buy their bearings in from the same supplier.
I don't suppose there's all that much difference in performance or reliability of the freewheel mechanism.
So, unless one make of hub has got a reputation for breaking axles or cracking spoke flanges, what's to choose between them ?

If you have the above yourfriends will say in a hushed tone

He has (insert name) on his bike !

If you have others they might rode the same but everytime you look at your bike youll think

If I had .......... Would I ride better

You pats your money and takes your choice !

You pats your money and takes your choice !

what exactly do you pat?

like this?

[img] [/img]

I have Hope and have ridden Chris King - they are definitely better. Instant drive compared to Hope and really nice construction. But £280? I think not.

I have a pair of DT wheels on my bike. Marvelous, fantastic etc. bearings lasted approx 18-20 months which for me is unbelievably good. Front hub is very easy to service, as easy as Hope. Rear hub is a proper mare, specific tools are needed which are uber costly- £53:00 for the freehub ringnut removal tool, needed to access the bearing that is inboard of the ringnut. And the ringnut is held in with the world's strongest threadlock it seems. When I try to undo it I end up dragging the workbench across the floor as I feel my shoulders try to dislocate. I tell myself to 'Man up' but I'm just not strong enough to shift the blummin' thing.

Great hubs when they work, but the rear ones are not easy to work on.

You only need the ringnut spanner for one of the bearings of course and it's the furthest in so not really exposed to the elements at all.

They're not worth the money of course, but they're better than Hope IMO. Longer lasting bearings, faster pickup, and lighter I think. Also easier to change to 10mm etc should you choose, just an endcap job. But mine came in a wheelset which I paid less for than a hub alone would cost, so, that puts it into perspective I think.

market creaming. some people have alot of money, and need something to spend it on.

If the special tool costs £53 and I've already got one DT hub, then it makes sense to buy another one to get better value from the tool when I buy it. 😉

CK hubs are worth the money if A. You can afford one and B. Notice the difference over other hubs. I can't speak for DT as I've not had any but having had both CK and Hope I can say that to me CK are worth the extra, the engineering is far superior in a King hub and will last longer. For instance one of my King hubs (a ss one) has done 5 years and approximately 8000 miles before needing the ring drive (does the same job as the pawls) replacing, all the lesser hubs I've owned barely see 12 months through.

FWIW you don't 'need' a special tool for the little bearing inside. i have used one of those rubbery strap wrenches on mine and it worked.
not worth the extra IMO (just bought a ss DMR hub)

I owned my CK hubs since 2003 as my only wheels ans new rims twice.

Now on Hope.

Only the sound is different. Pickup is neither here or there.

Servicing is ridiculous and fiddly on CKs. They are not fit and forget.

DT are overpriced. Should be hope-priced as they aint special IMO.

"CK hubs are worth the money if A. You can
afford one and B. Notice the difference over
other hubs"

you forgot "and have convinced yourself that your various super expensive bike purchases are justified when the folk around you riding Shimano etc are just as happy."...but good to see you've elevated your status over the rest of us!

Of course CK stuff is better, whether it's worth it is subjective in the way a new beamer is worth it over say a sh Focus.

Silly Sheldon 😉

How about if you're A and B and yet realise that it makes precisely no difference. By all means buy them because you like them/the noise/the pretty colours but don't try and pretend there's a real world functional difference

DT front hubs = unremarkable.
DT rear hubs = Star ratchet is clever and offers quick pick up but prone to siezing in very low temperatures and I'd really like to see someone removing a ratchet ring with "one of those rubbery strap wrenches" just to get at a simple bearing. Cheaper option to the tool would be to buy a star ratchet and weld a bar to it. The original bearing are SKF iirc but you can buy these for Hope et al. DT also powdercoat their hubs (or at least some of them) and that starts to flake off nicely around the flanges after a couple of years of hard use.

When you can have proper bling* for a lot less money than either DT or CK, there's no way I'd consider either of them. Not on your nelly

*Royce.

Tell me about Royce..

CK hub on a SS conversion would look comical - serious muddle of aesthetics and misunderstanding of what you are getting for your money with a CK hub.
On a dedicated SS sure, why not. If you were building up a SS frame and wanted it to look top drawer.

The CK hubs do have the best sounds - or at least they used to, I've not ridden with one on the trail for years.

Durability - I have sets of 240s and CK hubs and they both outlast Hope by a factor of about 5 in terms of bearing life. Hope's reliably last a year, the others far, far longer. I had a set of CKs for 6 years, then sold them and never touched the bearings. Yes, they do need the star ratchet / ring drive servicing but do that every now and again and they're fine. Are they worth the money? Yes, especially if you buy a good value 2nd hand pair - probably less so if you pay full RRP.

GB

I picked up a SSC SS hub off here a while ago for £30. Perfect so far, only ridden along the beach lo off here for peanuts, has seen several thousand miles of the Sudetenland over the past years. Never missed a beat. I have a spare one of those but will probably not need it anytime soon.

Royce are nice, but heavy. AFAIR they don't do a 20mm front either.

rear hubs are worth spending money on but fronts rarely cause me any problems. i have ck and dt 240 rears and shimano xt front. shimano rear have been fairly poor (freehub problems) for me. hope rears are generally better than shimano and i've been satisfied with them. but i got my ck and dt's for less than £200, not a massive jump from pro2 price . i like the quick pick up on the ck, i do think it helps when i'm riding ss in technical situations. the dt are very light, very quiet and seem to have less drag than any others i have used

Words like worth and justify should be banned...

It's horses for courses, typically it's simple, most of the time they last on average longer and are better higher quality. The manufacturing process is typically higher quality and quality Control closer to the guy doing the design.

You pays your money and makes your choices. You will know in your own head if you think it's worth the money to you. If you wants them buy them. If you can't afford them either save up or buy something cheaper. 😉 Tongue firmly in cheek.

My hope pro 2 bearings (rear) last 1 year, max. That in different roles too - road, mtb etc.

How often do CK bearings need to be replaced?

Hardly ever! Just strip and clean once in a while.

I got my Ck rear hub for my 40th. It cost me £210, new in a sale from Stiff.

I said at the time that, although it was a thing of beauty and wonderfully engineered and made it wasn't worth the retail price of £320 (then).

Now nearly 2 years on and after 2 Alp trips numerous uplift / dh weekends and miles in the Peaks I think it is worth it.

I strip it and its still pristine inside, after a clean, and still going strong.

Compared to an XT rear hub that lasted me 3 days in the Alps I now think they are worth it, to me anyway. The pick up is amazing, I love the noise, I love the engineering of it, I'm sure it will live on to become excellent value for money like my CK headset has.

So, despite CK not needing new bearings for a very long time, and having better pick-up, people think that they are not worth twice the price? I think that they would be if they are going to get enough use to justify them. I own hope and have tired of the rear hub needing new bearings - they are not bad, it is easy to do, but I would pay for the cheaper running costs if I used one particular wheel a LOT.

After experiencing shimano engineering on three rear hubs now, I'd gladly pay DT money not to put up with it any more...

Are all hubs mass produced in factories in the Far East or are some of them made in countries with higher minimum wages, overheads, costs etc?

To some, a custom or niche frame / saddle / brakes / forks / insert ANY other component isn't worth it and to some they are. We're all different, so different people value different things in different areas.

Chris kings are very good,but like you say are a lot of money,and need very expensive tools to do a full service.Last years
Hopes are good value,but i broke a rear axle,and have had problems with pawl springs, and the pickup isnt that good,and seem to wear bearings quite quickly.
My favourites and what i am running at the moment are Hadley hubs,Easy to service and seem very reliable,Will be building another set of wheels on Hadley hubs,probably with Stans Alpine rims and cx-ray spokes.
I also have a set of Mavic SX's with the latest 4 pawl hub,Been excellent have just replaced the Bearings after 2 years,riding all year a couple of times a week,including a few trips up to wales and an uplift day at Cwmcarn.

fatmuthahubbard - Member

"FWIW you don't 'need' a special tool for the little bearing inside. i have used one of those rubbery strap wrenches on mine and it worked."

Wait, what? How does that work then?

bearings lasted approx 18-20 months which for me is unbelievably good

if i spent £300 and they only lasted that long i'd be disappointed. i have some old hope XCs which have been used on several bikes for the last 8 years, on their 3rd set of rims. bearings still good having not touched them in that time. the freehub needed replacing once, which hope did for free

i can see the benefit of better pickup, and the new ProII noise is very annoying, but i personally wouldn't spend that sort of cash on one hub, when i could get a new set of brakes, or drivetrain, or an alfine, or forks...

one pair of my CK's are almost 7 years old.

regular ring drive clean and lubrication, bearing regrease, pop back in the axle and off we go for another 6 months of reliable running.

other than the high price, what's not to like ?

CAPEX -vs- OPEX

TooTall - Member
Are all hubs mass produced in factories in the Far East or are some of them made in countries with higher minimum wages, overheads, costs etc?

I believe that CK are made in america, and their facility is extremely environmentally friendly - they have a website with lots of info on.

I'd really like to see someone removing a ratchet ring with "one of those rubbery strap wrenches" just to get at a simple bearing

done it lots of times, have used small drift and hammer too.

Chris King and DT Swiss are well built, light and strong. If you can justify the outlay to yourself then go ahead and get them. I have a set of Bulbs that were expensive, or so I thought at the time, 10 years and one full and one half set of bearings later I don't think so.

Quality costs, light weight costs and reputation and back up costs.

How are people getting so long out of their hope bearings? 😯

I think a more pertinent question is "what makes a CK HEADSET worth £110"? I just realised my 4 year old, £40 FSA is still spinning beautifully despite numerous fork changes, prolonged stints riding rigid and some long winters. An extra £70 for some anodising?

fatmuthahubbard - Member

"done it lots of times, have used small drift and hammer too."

I've a feeling we're talking about different things. The ring's completely recessed into the hub body so how does a boa work with it?

King come in pink, the others do not 8)

Hope for the win. If pawls wear out quickly just ring them up and they'll send some free of charge. Try that with Chris King! I noticed the earlier pro II pawl springs would snap prematurely but the replacements sent out were heat treated and solved this issue.

Sheldon breaks everything so his opinion is invalid. 😆

Hope for the win. If pawls wear out quickly just ring them up and they'll send some free of charge.

Its an old argument though. Hope customer service might be outstanding, but I'd rather not have to rely on it in the first place if I could just spend more on a hub that didn't need it in the first place. Seeing more than one picture of split hub casings hasn't exactly sold me on the ProII either.

13th-"probably about to learn the harsh reality of DT hub ownership"-floor monk

Seeing more than one picture of split hub casings hasn't exactly sold me on the ProII either.

Could that not partly be down the sheer popularity of the hubs? I've never seen one fail riding dh for 8 years. No product is perfect but sometimes the most popular get a bad rep from a small % of their users. Most DH riders at uplifts in the UK are running hope hubs.

It only seems to be mincing xc riders worried about hopes splitting. :fact: