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Nope not official enough.
What is [i]more[/i] official than The Hansard and the findings of the public inquiry???
Not suggesting anything was covered up
So you apparently think that 16 young children and 1 teacher were murdered by [i]something other than a handgun[/i] - which was kept secret and deliberately misreported to parliament, the judiciary and the public - but it wasn't a cover up.
Okay then...
Ah, but the Autopsy report says that Hamilton was shot with a .38 calibre bullet - not 9mm or .357 magnum!
(the gun nuts should be able to quickly work out the problem with that conspiracy theory!)
Its the "concealed carry" bit that gives the game away. (If it means what I think it means).
If you want to carry a gun to avoid become a crime victim surely the best way is to carry it openly. All the bad guys will see it and leave you alone.
But the deterrent effect works better when potential robber doesn't know who might be carrying a gun at any time!
.380 is equivalent to 9mm.
Almost - .38 special and .357 Magnum actually use the same bullet, indeed .38 Spec cartridge is the same parent case and can be fired from a .357 mag chambered pistol.
nifan beat me to it...
If you are [i]still[/i] in some doubt outspoken, then here is a link to the complete 3376 page transcript of the public inquiry, as published by the Scottish Government, which includes multiple detailed testimonies covering the firearms used, the varieties of ammunition, the magazines and the modifications to the weapons.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2001/01/7951/File-1
e.g. Malcolm Chisholm, Tayside police Scenes of Crime Officer and Firearms Examiner testifying:
"The first item was a swing-out cylinder, six-chamber, single or double action, revolver of American manufacturer (Marcas Registradas - Smith and Wesson model 19-4) chambered for .357 Smith and Wesson, centre-fire, Magnum cartridges and bearing the serial number 48K8754.
...
The second item was a swing-out cylinder, six-chamber, single or double action revolver of American manufacture Marcas Registradas - Smith and Wesson model 19-7, chambered for .357 Smith and Wesson, centre-fire, Magnum cartridges and bearing the serial number BSR4422.
..
The third item was a self-loading magazine-fed pistol of Belgian manufacture (Fabrique Nationale - Herstal Browning hi-power) chambered for 9 mm Luger centre-fire cartridges and bearing the serial number 245PZ42837 (the letters PZ in the serial number denote the year of manufacture as being 1981). This was a custom-build, competition target pistol, having an extended barrel with a barrel weight fixed to the extended barrel cover for balance.
...
The fourth item was a self-loading magazine-fed pistol of Belgian manufacture (Fabrique Nationale - Herstal Browning hi-power) chambered for 9 mm Luger centre-fire cartridges and bearing the serial number 245PZ69756 (year of manufacture 1981).
If you are still in some doubt outspoken, then here is a link to the complete 3376 page transcript of the public inquiry, as published by the Scottish Government, which includes multiple detailed testimonies covering the firearms used, the varieties of ammunition, the magazines and the modifications to the weapons.
Yeah, but that's just what they want you to think man! Wake up SHEEPLE!
Guns don't kill people, people do. So what if, like, it was a gun that,like, went into the school and, like, fired a load of people at those kids, eh? Eh?
Think about it!
I ****ing love you Bails.
I have to add to this in a pedantic way...
This:
[img] 
[/img]
Is not a sub-machine gun. It's a short barrelled rifle (SBR). Sub-machine guns are normally chambered in a pistol calbre (9x19mm, .45ACP, etc) rather than the 5.56x45 that the example above is using.
Sorry, carry on with the argument. I feel better now.
I ****ing love you Bails
😆
Thanks babe!
To counter-pedant willard, the references to "a sub-machine gun for walking the dog" were in relation to that [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magpul_FMG-9 ]Magpul FMG-9[/url] video (which torsoinalake posted just before that image) where the guys says [i]"it's a flashlight.. you're out walking the the dog, taking the garbage out, getting the mail.. any problems occur, anything you need immediate action with... *click* "[/i]
NSFW but very relevant.
Touche GrahamS, touche. It is nice to work with a pedant of such quality.
I think you will find that the word is [i]touché[/i] 😉
Where I live now, I can go out and buy a handgun, not register it and carry it, visible in a holster, on the street. That's because there is no law saying I can't carry, therefore I can carry.
Yet, in a metropolitan area with 1.25m people, I have seen this once in 8 months.
Most Americans care not for guns. A minority of those that do apply the 'n+1' rule we have for bikes to their hobby.
Coming back to the [url= http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf ]statistics[/url],
In 2010, the rate of firearm homicide for blacks was 14.6
per 100,000, compared to 1.9 for whites, 2.7 for American
Indians and Alaska Natives, and 1.0 for Asians and Pacific
Islanders (figure 5).
UK had [url= http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom ]33 [/url]firearms homicides in 2010 giving a rate of 0.04 per 100,000
Its definitely more dangerous (in terms of firearms deaths) to live in the USA instead of the UK but the risk is still low.
the risk is still low.
Those figures look kind of [i]high[/i] to me.
They suggest that black Americans are significantly more likely to be murdered by firearm than be killed in a car crash.
And yet there are a lot of traffic laws.
It also shows that even if you are in a the lower risk "white American" group you are still about 47 times more at risk than the UK average.
Roughly 4 times as likely to be murdered in the US (4.7) as in the UK (1.2).Its definitely more dangerous [s](in terms of firearms deaths)[/s] to live in the USA instead of the UK
But both are hugely safer than places like Honduras (91.6), which coincidentally has the same firearm ownership rate as the UK.
Roughly 4 times as likely to be murdered in the US (4.7) as in the UK (1.2).
Wonder what that figure looks like once you account for race and age groups?
I mean - I've got this lot In my cupboard, but I've not shot anyone (yet)
[img] 
[/img]
Wonder what that figure looks like once you account for race and age groups?
Does it make a difference? 😕
The common argument seems to be, we don't need to make any laws it is just young black kids that are dying, us middle-aged white guys are relatively safe.
Ninfan, what do you shoot with the 10/22?
Northwind, think you'll find its a laminate...
like this...
[img] 
[/img]
Outspoken - mainly target at the club - bit of Rabbit but I usually use the .17 HMR for them.
The 10/22 is bloody amazing fun on the running boar target at Bisley!
Northwind, yes its a laminate (one of the OE Ruger ones)
The common argument seems to be, we don't need to make any laws it is just young black kids that are dying, us middle-aged white guys are relatively safe.
I think its more that making laws which increase the regulation of legally held guns owned predominantly by middle aged white guys doesn't have much of an effect on reducing the death rate amongst young black kids with illegal ones - if you want to do that then you need to take a long look at some pretty deep and complex social issues, rather than the panacea delivered by ever more stringent laws (Just like the proper enforcement of the existing laws would have likely prevented Dunblane and Hungerford)
I was going to say your cabinet looks more geared towards Rabbit.
I love my .17HMR
but i also use the 10/22 with a mod as well for rabbit
Yes, 10/22 with mod and subtonics is great fun - that red dot is good, but the parallax problem is too big, so you end up with a different MPI every time you change cheek weld.
might get a laser instead
Yes. HMR is a bloody great round
The other two are a .243 BSA and a .308 Tikka (mod not shown)
Don't like laser at all, used to use red dot a lot on my under lever, now i keep matching optics on both the .22 and .44 for ease of use. Just trained my self to acquire the cross hairs quicker for the turning targets!
Have a .223 Remmy as well for Target and Fox.
The whole race thing is just odd to me...
It's just and indication of what type of peoe live in the area where it happens really. Its not as if middle aged white men are impervious to bullets, go join a gang in LA and see if you last longer than the others...
I think its more that making laws which increase the regulation of legally held guns owned predominantly by middle aged white guys doesn't have much of an effect on reducing the death rate amongst young black kids with illegal ones
The thing is that, in the case of America, the "young black kids" are armed with [i]legal[/i] guns (or at least guns that were stolen from legal owners).
To be clear I've got nothing against hunting or target rifles, particularly low-capacity bolt-action ones. They have a clear purpose that isn't killing people. And I don't think banning them would achieve much.
The same can't really be said for assault rifles, sub-machine guns or semi-automatic pistols.
Someone buying a MAC-10 for instance (before they were banned) wasn't getting it to hunt rabbits.
ninfan - MemberNorthwind, yes its a laminate (one of the OE Ruger ones)
That is bloomin lovely, cheers.
Someone buying a MAC-10 for instance (before they were banned) wasn't getting it to hunt rabbits.
You can still buy fully automatic weapons in the US, you just need a licence, not unlike we have. There are thousands in circulation.
Have a google and see how many murders have been committed with legally held automatic weapons. Ever. I think it's 2.
You including semi-automatics in that 5thElefant?
No, that's just fully auto - assault rifles, sub-machineguns and machineguns.
I don't see the need for automatic weapons outside of the military what so ever.
You're hardly going to fill a deer you want to eat full of 50 bullets or need it to 'protect' your home
People go to the range and shoot stuff, making lots of noise and making things blow up.
It's an odd and expensive hobby, but we all have those one way or another.
No, that's just fully auto - assault rifles, sub-machineguns and machineguns.
So in your "2 deaths. Ever" you are counting incidents like:
Aurora: 12 dead, 70 injured. Weapons included a
Smith & Wesson M&P15 assault rifle with 100-round magazine.
But not Sandy Hook school (28 dead) because the Bushmaster M4 and other weapons he used were [i]only[/i] semi-automatic. This apparently doesn't qualify as an "assault rifle":
[img] 
[/img]
So in your "2 deaths. Ever" you are counting incidents like
Nope, just a response to what I quoted:
Someone buying a MAC-10 for instance (before they were banned) wasn't getting it to hunt rabbits.
Your mass shooting graph would look different if they banned everything but shotguns. There'd be one big column labeled shotgun with the same grand total.
Derrick Bird killed 12 with a bolt action .22 and a shotgun
All the rifles in my photo above are potentially far more 'lethal'
The point about 'high capacity magazines' is just as pointless - magazines are, by their very nature, removable and replaceable, a 5 round mag swaps for a 30 round mag and suddenly you've got a 'lethal killing machine' - anyone with some glue and a bit of perspex can make a 'high capacity magazine' if they wanted to.
Nope, just a response to what I quoted:
So if we accept that only 2 deaths have occurred from fully-automatic machine guns then doesn't that suggest that laws heavily restricting their sale have been pretty effective?
In fact it turns out that the States with the tightest gun control have the fewest firearm deaths. Who would have guessed?
[img] 
[/img]
Source: http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-geography-of-gun-deaths/69354/
There'd be one big column labeled shotgun with the same grand total.
I disagree. Purely because many of those killings involved the culprits firing hundreds of shots. That's not something you can easily do with a double-barrel shotgun. Even a pump-action holds a fairly limited rounds and is time consuming to reload.
What gun for mtb-ing?
Hmm...choices choices...
Either the 12-gauge auto-loader, or the .45 long slide, with laser sighting, or thePhased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range. However,if they're not available I'll stick with the trusty ol' Uzi nine millimeter. 😉
10/22's look awful with clear banana clips.
Derrick Bird killed 12 with a bolt action .22 and a shotgun
And we remember that incident and Dunblane because they are very unusual here, thanks to our tight gun control.
Meantime in the US there have been at least 61 mass shootings since 1982.
I doubt anyone remembers all of those. 🙁
So if we accept that only 2 deaths have occurred from fully-automatic machine guns then doesn't that suggest that laws heavily restricting their sale have been pretty effective?
Yeah, sure. Availability is certainly a big factor. Nature of the gun isn't, and more importantly cost. Fully automatic weapons are expensive because they're supply is restricted.
I disagree. Purely because many of those killings involved the culprits firing hundreds of shots. That's not something you can easily do with a double-barrel shotgun. Even a pump-action holds a fairly limited rounds and is time consuming to reload
I doubt that's true.
The last spree here was, as ninfan said, sporting guns and previous to that I believe it was a revolver (an unpopular choice on your graph). A gun is a gun.
10/22's look awful with clear banana clips.
The only thing those mags are good for is plinking!
only ever use modified 10 shot mags!