Horrible news but in the chance of spreading the news and finding any witnesses, thames valley police appeal.
Link doesn't work, hopefully this will:
What's the betting it, 'isn't the driver's fault' and gets off with no jail-time? Grrr. Thoughts with families of the deceased and emergency personal who had to deal with aftermath.
This is so tragic. I feel sorry for all involved and impacted by this. So needless.
So let's have a look at the road: A40 Wycombe Road, High Wycombe near to the junction of Old Dashwood Hill.
Google maps: streetview suggests it's a nice straight piece of road with good visibility.
Speed limit: 40mph
Conditions: Perfect- dry and sunny
So why is..
The driver of the car is assisting the police with their enquiries.
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I suppose the sun could have been in his eyes if he was travelling West, but I think the trees would have blocked most of it out although it is going uphill. If travelling East, it would have been behind him.
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Incredibly sad.
I have a few thoughts based on experience of riding in pairs but not appropriate to guess what happened on public forum in the absence of facts.
I would go miles out of my way to not ride that road, based solely on the pictures above. Not victim blaming in any way, this shouldn't happen, but I have no faith in drivers or the police to keep the risk of riding a road like that within acceptable limits.
im local,its a fast section of road, either way
those guys are not far from my age, i feel sick, next couple of days till names are released. fingers crossed.
I'd rather not speculate on what may or may not have happened but to correct cokie it's a nsl (not 40mph) limit on that section of road that I'm very familiar with and is often driven far faster 😕
How awful. Thoughts with their families and friends.
Shit.
My cycling mate lives in HW and is 52. He pinged me this morning, looks like the incident was yesterday.
One of the guys is known to my Brother in Law,
He lived next door the the cyclists partner for 20 years, before she moved down south with one of the deceased. 🙁
Not to jump to conclusions, but NSL Road, Golf R and both victims pronounced dead at the scene..? If this is the driver's fault and they get anything less than 15 years it's a travesty.
Utterly tragic, my thoughts are with the victims' families. 😔
If this is the driver’s fault and they get anything less than 15 years it’s a travesty.
Maximum sentence for causing death by dangerous driving is 14 years, so…
Something very similar happened on the A168 in North Yorkshire recently.
Husband of a work colleague killed at the scene. Straight, fast A road. Porsche.
I would go miles out of my way to not ride that road, based solely on the pictures above. Not victim blaming in any way, this shouldn’t happen, but I have no faith in drivers or the police to keep the risk of riding a road like that within acceptable limits.
Me too. I live fairly close to an NSL A road and I take any route to avoid it. When I drive down it and see cyclists I wish them best of luck to make it to the end but always wonder why they chose that road. Okay you could get knocked off of one of the alternate 30/40 mph roads but there tends to be less traffic, slower moving so more time to react etc,.
Well aware that they have as much right to be on the road as the cars.
I would go miles out of my way to not ride that road, based solely on the pictures above.
And you'd have to go miles out of your way to avoid it too, unless you are on a bike suitable for offroad there is virtually no alternative between West Wycombe and Beacons Bottom.
*lived in west wycombe for 40yrs and ridden it many many times, its not one I'd particularly avoid but have witnessed a cyclist get clipped by a car going west up dashwood hill once before albeit at low speed and no injury.
the fact the driver was not arrested at the scene would seem to suggest it is not an obvious case of someone just mowing cyclists down, but who knows..
would seem to suggest it is not an obvious case of someone just mowing cyclists down
It never is when the sole witness (presumably) is the driver. Hence the appeal for footage so they can corroborate the driver's defence.
Terrible news I read that and felt awful. I once cycled out of London on a main rd, a4 or 40 the one that goes to Twickenham. Omg never again I spent 30 mins or so hearing cars fly past. Since then I have avoided main roads it's just too risky.
That golf should have 'front assist' which should apply the brakes if it senses you are too close. It offers audible and visual warning and if you do nothing, applies the brakes for you in ever increasing amounts. I just checked our manual and it operates from 3mph to 155mph. It does pick up cyclists in the radar coverage.
Condolences to family and friends.
I once cycled out of London on a main rd, a4 or 40 the one that goes to Twickenham. Omg never again I spent 30 mins or so hearing cars fly past. Since then I have avoided main roads it’s just too risky.
I'm fine with most roads but there is a certain type of fast, busy A-road that I'll definitely try and avoid if I can, especially at commuting times. The A71 into Edinburgh from Livingston is a bit like that, but fortunately isn't difficult to avoid as there are quieter options that run parallel to most of it.
<That golf should have ‘front assist’ which should apply the brakes if it senses you are too close. It offers audible and visual warning and if you do nothing, applies the brakes for you in ever increasing amounts. I just checked our manual and it operates from 3mph to 155mph. It does pick up cyclists in the radar coverage.>
I think you are expecting too much from Front Assist - I wouldn't rely on mine to save two cyclists in my path.
Terrible news and I can only think of their families and what they must be going through.
I live in the area and since the start of lockdown, at certain times of day the roads have become a free for all racetrack, literally no regard for speed limits, usual stereotypes of cars and drivers. Its very disappointing at a time when more people are considering cycling, this certainly won't help the cause. Until such point that car drivers are considered at blame when cyclists are involved until proven otherwise, I cant see anything changing. My thoughts go to the families of the victims.
🙁 tragic indeed. Thoughts to family , friends and all fellow daily commuters and cyclists. Unfortunately there are drivers out there that see cyclists as an inconvenience and don’t want to wait for a safe place to pass. Thankfully most are considerate but it only takes one...... 🙁 rest in peace you two.
Tragic. My thoughts for the families and friends.
There is nothing special about that road that would preclude me from riding it. In fact I have a few times. What you may not know is that the M40 runs parallel to this road, so the traffic is fairly light. During lockdown I'm sure even more so.
Out on the bike a couple of weeks ago with the wife ,taking our hour of exercise , country lane , sunny lots of roadies around when 3 "stereotypical"boy racers nearly wiped us out during an overtaking manoeuvre. We were lucky we were spotted at the last second by the one doing the overtaking who happened to be the middle car. he banged on the brakes and pulled back in line very nearly taking his mate out behind him, lots of tyre smoke and a change of underwear for us.
we could still hear them somewhere around the area half an hour later.
Heart goes out to these guys and their families .
Pretty outrageous that people have to avoid cycling on ANY roads apart from those where it isn't legal.
So sorry for those guys and their families.
Just looked it up and realised I've been on it a few times on the road bike. There are some lonely lanes around there, so it's a great link to those.
I think it may also be a part of the Chiltern Cycleway route, but will go off now and check.
It's about 1km away from the Cycleway route (same bit of road).
L
Section 21 Gt Kingshill to W Wycombe
Exactly as andrewreay describes, that bit links a few other routes nicely.I used to ride the section between Chipps Hill and Bullocks regularly. Sad news.
The Chiltern100 used a good chunk of that section too I think?
Thoughts go out to the family.
I used to live around Wycombe, moved away about 14 years ago. Still travel down to see relatives now and again. I don't know what the road is like now but back then I don't remember it as being a particularly dangerous road. That being said I was in my 20s then so my risk assessment was probably a bit off.
DezB mentioned that you should be able to cycle along any legal road. Whilst I agree that would be lovely, there are roads round me that would offer a more direct route to work, but there's no way I'd go on them. Thinking about the A61 between Sheffield and Chesterfield for example.
There really needs to be a proper push for presumed liability in this country, otherwise stuff like this will just keep happening. Drivers (us included) need to literally be terrified of getting anywhere near a cyclist in case there's a collision. Only way cyclists will get proper protection from the law.
There really needs to be a proper push for presumed liability in this country, otherwise stuff like this will just keep happening. Drivers (us included) need to literally be terrified of getting anywhere near a cyclist in case there’s a collision. Only way cyclists will get proper protection from the law.
The general standard of cycling in London makes that a difficult sell though.
Shocking news RIP. I commute a very small section along of there from work in Marlow during winter when the trails are too bad but coming down Old Bullocks Farm or Chipps Hill then turn right on the A40 towards Wycombe. I can’t in my mind fathom out how this has happened unless the driver has pulled out on them from Old Dashwood Road as they are descending. So sad.
Grim. Really grim. Used to live round there & still head out that way on occasion - good riding....away from the main roads....
FWIW the 2 previous incidents of double fatalities, in recent history, have both resulted in 10yr sentences. Thankfully these kind of tragedies are quite rare.
https://road.cc/content/news/two-cyclists-killed-bucks-crash-involving-vw-golf-car-273965
It really is just a 20 min drive away from me in Hughenden I’ll go up there tomorrow & lay some flowers. I can use ‘talking the kids & dog for a walk’ as an excuse which I really will do.
That's really sad, my thoughts are with the poor families.
I don't understand how you can take two cyclists out at the same time on a flat straight road if you are driving to the speed limit and concentrating.
I saw this video today, made me think of this. I cycle a lot and it made me think. Sad that we are so scared to ride our bikes. I hope in the future, riding is a lot safer and away from cars. Maybe all the new covid cyclists will help drive the change.
the new covid cyclists
The temporary covid cyclists aren't going to change anything. This accident happened [i]during[/i] the covid crisis - at a time when there is less traffic on the roads, where there are noticeably more cyclists around, where drivers are enjoying emptier roads and less delays AND faster speeds. If this kind of thing can happen now, once everything goes back to normal, the only thing protecting us is the traffic will slow down a bit. No flase promises from the govt. or people thinking oh yeah, a few weeks ago I was riding on these roads, I should take a bit more care, as they slide behind the wheel of their BMW.
The general standard of cycling in London makes that a difficult sell though.
Yes! It's the cyclists fault.
It never takes long to get to that stage, does it?
The general standard of cycling in London makes that a difficult sell
Only because people want it to be a difficult sell. Rationally, a low standard of cycling makes good infrastructure even more justified.
https://beyondthekerb.org.uk/the-rise-of-the-idiots/
Just returned from there & can only surmise that the driver has either just driven straight into them or sadly they’ve pulled out on the car from a small side road. When I parked there and then drove off looking right into oncoming traffic it’s slightly blind & a car was really quickly in my sight.
Yes! It’s the cyclists fault.It never takes long to get to that stage, does it?
I'm not saying it's right, just that it's the way it is.
Although personally I don't like the idea of being presumed guilty unless proven otherwise - even for car drivers.
personally I don’t like the idea of being presumed guilty unless proven otherwise
There’s a big difference between guilty (as in criminal law) and liable (as in civil law and insurance). Presumed liability is a lot less contentious than presumed guilt.
FWIW the 2 previous incidents of double fatalities, in recent history, have both resulted in 10yr sentences. Thankfully these kind of tragedies are quite rare.
https://road.cc/content/news/two-cyclists-killed-bucks-crash-involving-vw-golf-car-273965
/blockquote>yes true. But when you read the detail on that link you get the impression that the two dead cyclists were pretty incidental to the sentence. I bet they got most of the time for being drunk, disqualified, UTI, chased by the cops etc
let's not kid ourselves
