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This has been discussed on the TR podcast a few times I think. They tend to suggest the following IIRC:
1) Be sure that your FTP is set right.
2) If you're ill or too fatigued then it might be better to just call it off or opt for a lower intensity workout instead, but if you're good on those fronts then:
(a) Dropping the intensity a few % is OK. Different people do have slightly different power profiles, so whilst e.g. 120% of FTP for n minutes might be a do-able VO2max interval for many, it might not be for you, especially if you're a bit old or weak of mind (:-)). Drop it by too much though and you will miss the point of the session.
(b) A super-short rest mid-interval is OK. They tend to recommend back-pedalling for a few (<5) seconds just to give the muscles a chance for a quick flush and the mind a quick break. The way they talk, they seem to do that themselves often - much better to do that and still get through the interval than to bail or drop it down.
(c) If the high intensity stuff is still regularly too tough for you to complete, but you're sure that overall your FTP setting is OK, then you can increase the rest between intervals a bit.
(d) MTFU
What gray and adsh said 🙂
I still use TR but most of what i do is custom workouts. And intervals are based on what my power for that duration is rather than just being a % of FTP which is a bit crude. So if, for example, my 5 min max is 400W, I might do 3 at 380W. Then depending on how that went I might tweak it up or down for the next session regardless of what my FTP is set to.
I listen to podcasts instead of actually riding. They're pretty good. (I'd recommend starting at the beginning though.)
I reckon in a few years' time there'll be an equivalent of TR that will give you customised workouts that are based on your power profile, where you'd like to improve it and for what style of event, and automatically detect your levels of fatigue / when you're ill and tweak things accordingly. I reckon the data that they've acquired already is an absolute goldmine. Strava too - if someone with the right skills got hold of that I think they could learn a lot about how mediocre athletes respond to training, and build an excellent AI TrainBot.
I'd be surprised if TR aren't planning something along those lines (at least the power profile customised stuff.)
Thanks all . Will MTFU
I'd be surprised if TR aren't planning something along those lines
Agreed. Especially now they have the HR / power warm-up as well. I'm waiting for the day something pops up and says "Based on your previous 50 warm-ups and HR there's no way you're going to complete this session so give up now"
I'm mid-way through the 2014 8 days of California and it's tough.. but also really good as something with a bit more variety than straight intervals.
"Based on your previous 50 warm-ups and HR there's no way you're going to complete this session so give up now"
😀
Outside intervals tonight - hugely over to the extent I feel as if I'm about to throw up 2hrs after. Suspect that's the end of this block.
Just tried the 2014 8 DC stage 3 and it was brutal. Couldn't keep power for the final "climb" and had to abandon. On the way set new personal bests for 10 minute and 30 minute power but just couldn't manage the second round.
The commentary really does keep you involved though and I'm finding this more motivating than straight training currently as suffering a bit of turbo fatigue.
We're totally open to some of the ideas you guys are discussing above! Send in some of 'em to our user-voice page at: https://trainerroad.uservoice.com/forums/131395-general. We regularly go through these in consideration of what our users want to see in future development cycles. 🙂
Regarding the struggle on your 8DC ride, may just been one of those days. But just to be sure, check out our blog article on burning out. It'll give you some insights as to riding the fine line between your physical and mental: http://blog.trainerroad.com/how-to-recognize-burnout-and-what-to-do-about-it/
Way to go on the PR's though!
Happy Training, everyone!
Community Manager at TrainerRoad - Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool
https://www.trainerroad.com/how-it-works
OMG they are watching us
FYI I just upgraded my Kickr to the latest firmware and now my power readings (on wahoo fitness app) are bouncing around all over the place, and the power distribution for my ride is muc more widely distributed with reading way higher than I normally get as well.
If you are going to do the upgrade it might be worth watching how your power fluctuates for a while before you do the upgrade to see if it gets messed up afterwards.
nickkanwetz - Member
We're totally open to some of the ideas you guys are discussing above!Community Manager at TrainerRoad - Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool
https://www.trainerroad.com/how-it-works
howsyourdad1 - Member
OMG they are watching us
Now here's a brilliant example of how STW can monetise the forum without throwing massive ads around.
We've got a great thread running, that has attracted positive attention from the manufacturer it's about. So STW make it a sticky backed by a commercial arrangement with TrainerRoad. Agree that it'll stay a sticky to promote TrainerRoad within the STW community and in return, TR engage with the community via the sticky on training advice and use of the app, plus some cash to STW Towers. Both companies and the community win.
Well another day and another failure to complete an 8 Days of California stage. This time day 6 which is billed as the hardest day. When I bailed at an 1hr10 my TSS was already 100 😯
These stages are certainly showing up my weakness - namely bursts of power above along way above FTP. Given I've been training for BC Bike race (average stage is ~50km with 1600m of climbing) which is a lot of longer slower riding not too concerned but think next winter I might do short power build or similar instead.
*Presses Reset*
Right, what recommendation for tonights pre-race get-my-lardy-arse-into-gear session for Wednesdays XCO race?
Since I decided I actually am an XC racer last night I'm back, need a session before Wednesdays race, will do a 20 min Test on Friday, race on Sunday then start on XCM ready for July's target 24h.
Custom session. 1hr of z2 with 20 mins of tempo and 5 30 second hard efforts. Job done. (Bit like [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/3651276-pal-20-tempo-with-4x1-v2 ]this one[/url] but with shorter and harder efforts.)
Too hard IMO with a .92 IF. You could knock it down 10%.
ok, you're thinking a bit less stress pre-wednesday but with some wake-up sprints:
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/108313-cheaha-1
?
Not hard enough 🙂
How about [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/22151-carrigain ]Carrigain[/url]? (ignoring the low cadence instructions.)
Ok, I'm in for that.
sweamrs is looking for a "pyramid" style workflow - e.g 1min @85%; 1 @ 95% ; 1 @ 105% and then down again.
So many workouts it's hard to just find stuff - any ideas from those who might have done something similar?
Keeler Needle?
Haeckel - although it's 3 x 3 mins rather than 1. Have you used the workout creator? You can use it to make customised workouts if you can't find a workout that matches your requirements.
I'm going to use the workout creator but I've found it's best to start with a template and then adjust it to match precise requirements as opposed to building from scratch given the choice.
Doesn't look like it though so I'll just build.
gray - Member
I reckon in a few years' time there'll be an equivalent of TR that will give you customised workouts that are based on your power profile, where you'd like to improve it and for what style of event, and automatically detect your levels of fatigue / when you're ill and tweak things accordingly.
It looks training peaks are just rolling that out for WKO4 iLevels.
[url= http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/individualized-training-the-what,-why,-and-how-of-the-new-wko4-ilevels ]Relesed WKO4 ilevel on May16th[/url]
Nice! This stuff is really interesting. If I had more time on my hands I'd like to get into it more, but I think getting hold of sufficient data to do anything useful would be tricky anyway.
Failed 20 min test this morning. Recent racing plus 2 bad nights sleep plus 1/2 bottle Prosecco last night tells me it was innevitable.
I was 5w away from my prior FTP so thats a relative victory 😆
I knew it was hurting too much after the first 5 and no amount of attempted mental happiness was helping.
Failed 20 min test this morning. Recent racing plus 2 bad nights sleep plus 1/2 bottle Prosecco last night tells me it was innevitable.
Are you mad? Sounds like you pretty much set yourself up to fail there!
Yes.
I'm trying to get TR stuff back on schedule, but I'm racing every 3 days for the next three weeks so theres no room to rest for a test. I'll probably have to go to the Bontrager 24 a bit undercooked from a training perspective so I guess with all that racing leading up to it I'm now better off lengthening outdoor rides than concentrating on TR.
Minging day forecast tomorrow and got to go shopping* most of the day anyway so its going to be Elephants +2 or +3 for me tomorrow morning. I'm kind of looking forward to it.
*or walking round shops, standing by the doorways, generally getting in the way and waiting to go for some food
I'm trying to get TR stuff back on schedule, but I'm racing every 3 days for the next three weeks so theres no room to rest for a test.
Don't bother with a test. Just ride to whatever you've currently got your FTP set too. It'll probably only be a few watts out. Feel that the sessions are getting a bit too easy (based on IF and TSS) then bump it up a bit, bit too hard then knock it down a bit. Worth chucking in a 2x20 sweetspot/threshold type of session in every few weeks to just check that the FTP is set about right (you should know at the end of the second interval if that's really a power you could conceivably hold for an hour.)
Elephants +2 or +3 for me tomorrow morning.
Good luck with that!
I am f ing sick again for the third time in 10 weeks. Perhaps my body is trying to tell me something . Given myself a week off. Hate it . I want interval pain
So back on plan (XCM)... I raced yesterday, will be racing Wednesday night, then Fri-Monday in wales with some quick people for a workout.
Tonight then, Raymond as per plan, skip to Baird as its less intensity, or outside up the road for as many 1km 12% ave hill repeats that I can stand?
Raymond looks ok. I'd probably do outdoors though but maybe not batter myself with hill reps.
Been back on the turbo a bit the last couple of weeks. Having been utterly sick of it earlier in the year I'm now quite enjoying it. Is a bit of a reminder of how different road and turbo are though (unless you have a perfectly smooth road with a gradient that doesn't vary and no wind to contend with!)
mrblobby - MemberElephants +2 or +3 for me tomorrow morning.
Good luck with that!
I failed. Went for Elephants plus 1 in the end due to time but still failed with motivation on the last rep. Didnt help that the gears were skipping meaning I had to ride easier gear higher cadence to get the required power.
Undecided on whether to ride outside or do TR in the morning.
Am I allowed to feel tired? Last week was supposed to be rest - didn't quite happen.
[img][url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7657/26588086553_cd8e7ca60b_h.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7657/26588086553_cd8e7ca60b_h.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/GvuTPp ]TSS[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/68424083@N07/ ][/url], on Flickr[/img]
Am I allowed to feel tired?
No, looks like you took most of Feb and March off, you should be well rested 😉
Back on TR for 45 mins of very gentle z1 tonight. First time back on the bike after close to two weeks off with what I think is (but really hoping isn't) glandular fever. Advice seems to be to try and stay active and do what I can manage so figured I'd give some very light turbo a go. Turned out ok, HR and PE was pretty much as I'd expect it to be for the effort. Only problem was an annoying wet nose as it's far too painful to clear it! Shall try some longer z1 next then build up slowly to some z2 and see how it goes.
Boo hiss to being ill! Hope it's not glandular fever. Sounds reassuring that the effort wasn't unexpectedly hard though.
I had a go on the turbo this morning too. Just an hour of sweet spot stuff (Mount Field). Tested going down on the drops - just for 5 mins but was fine. Want to check out my flexibility to help choose my new bike, see!
Tricky one gray as assume you'll get more flexible as time goes on. Is geometry of old bike unworkable? Looking forward to the new bike thread. 🙂
Yeah, I should get more flexible as time goes on and once the scaffolding comes out. I can already touch my toes when warm though, and seem pretty much OK with my old bike position. Well, not quite as comfy as I was, but I've not exactly been riding much lately. I figure that if I'm confident that the old bike is OK, then I'm safe to get a new one that's no more racey than that. I've been playing with geometry comparison software to check out lots of options, and am going to see a fitter chap with some sort of jig next week! Then I'll narrow down my list and see about some test rides...
Definitely very helpful that I have the turbo and my old bike is usable on it, otherwise it'd be really a bit tricky to ascertain where I am on the flexibility front.
Hi, should I be doing interval training standing up ? Replicating #enduro races? Ta!
Personally I'm not wild on standing up intervals on turbo, seems to rattle about a bit too much and I worry about damage to bike. Just find an uphill stretch of fireroad and hammer up it standing a few times!