Now they want to charge for an app built on the goodwill of the community
I'd hazard a guess that for the vast majority of signifant contributors, this posted early in the thread probably covers it.
What does this mean for your trail associations and local admins?
We greatly appreciate the work local admins and ambassadors have put in to help map trails, as well as manage and curate the content in their areas. It’s a vital piece in making a global platform like this work.
To recognize their continued efforts we are providing five free Trailforks Pro subscriptions per trail association, which are intended to be used by trail administrators. Also, members that are set up as local region admins on Trailforks can get a free Trailforks Pro subscription. They must have at least 10 Trailforks contribute points, meaning they’ve helped contribute some data to the platform. Local admins apply for free subscription here via the Trailforks website (not the app).
apps don't magically develop themselves, servers don't magically run themselves. I'd be amazed if this makes them rich, I'd be surprised it just about covers the cost and that's probably ignoring any development time.
Trails locally (same as scotroutes) is patchy. I used TF to good effect when on my own exploring round Feshie - I wasn't really *looking* for specific trails, but it helped show me grading and name of the trail I was looking at. A few - Inca Trail - I was able to confirm that I was on what I thought I was on.
But not sure I'd look out for trails specifically - as above, I'm pretty happy to explore and backtrack if required.
And for those saying “oh, but it’s not much money”, you’re absolutely right. More than anything it’s just subscription fatigue. Each one is only a few $/£ a month, but by the time you add Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify, Headspace, Strava, Zwift it just hits a point where you’re fed up having to subscribe to yet another thing
Absolutely this. Online companies have now firmly cottoned onto the idea that recurring payments are a great moneyspinner. No consumer is going to pay £20 for the TrailForks app, but plenty seem happy paying £1.50 /month for years on end. See also phone contracts, gym membership.
Modern Life is Rubbish.
Funny how it's all the bloody freeloaders on here moaning about coughing up a couple of quid a month 😉
I think you get WAY more value for money these days. For example, when I think what (as a family) we used to spend on CDs, DVDs, rentals etc, and now for a fraction of that we can have ALL the streaming services with all the movies, songs etc that we want! Do you want to go back to paying as you go, £16.99 for an album?! 😂 Used to spend £££ most months on various magazines as well, don't miss those days either!Modern Life is Rubbish.
I think you get WAY more value for money these days. For example, when I think what (as a family) we used to spend on CDs, DVDs, rentals etc, and now for a fraction of that we can have ALL the streaming services with all the movies, songs etc that we want! Do you want to go back to paying as you go, £16.99 for an album?! 😂 Used to spend £££ most months on various magazines as well, don’t miss those days either!
I'd hazard a guess that some of the old guard complaining about this have a stack of paper OS maps somewhere...
Actually the best use I've found for Trailforks is exploring the longer "Mountain bike" routes people post up mainly for riding on my gravel bike, as they are inevitably mixed on/off-road loops taking in some interesting bits of bridleway and trails, but again I'll take a map print and perhaps download a GPX to try and follow breadcrumb style on my (old) Garmin. but there's nothing really requiring me to use the app and/or subscribe to do this yet, So they've not really priced casual users like me out of the main resource on offer have they.
I suppose it's really only going to affect people who never plan and literally just head off somewhere and only bother when they arrive to look up nearby trials on the TF app... Are there many people who actually do this?
I mean I might break out google maps and/or a paper map if I'm following my nose and need to orientate myself, but I'll never just head off somewhere and completely rely on the tech to find me a random trail once I'm sat lost in the corner of a field... Nobody is that reliant on Trailforks are they?
I will say this, compared to paying for the extra Strava features a Trailforks sub seems like much better VFM...
I suppose it’s really only going to affect people who never plan and literally just head off somewhere and only bother when they arrive to look up nearby trials on the TF app… Are there many people who actually do this?
I mean I might break out google maps and/or a paper map if I’m following my nose and need to orientate myself, but I’ll never just head off somewhere and completely rely on the tech to find me a random trail once I’m sat lost in the corner of a field… Nobody is that reliant on Trailforks are they?
I'm off to the Tweed Valley in a few weeks.
Yes, I'll be relying on trailforks so I can find the trails I want... Sod trying to find anything in this spiders web unless you're local!!
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/vT6Rn3nh/image.pn g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/vT6Rn3nh/image.pn g"/> [/img][/url]
I think Trailforks is truly awesome and has literally changed the what I ride. Yes I could work off maps and go see the locals (if there happens to be a bike shop around and open) but the time saved finding wee tiny paths off fire roads and the speed of development of trails in Scotland means it's absolutely invaluable. In a world where time is precious I can explore so much more traily goodness when I'm not heading up/down dead ends and scrambling through heather/trees/bogs (although this does still happen sometimes). Guess I better pay for it then!
Aye, 100% with those two folks above, try exploring Tweed Valley, Ae, Burnside, Laggan etc without TF.
I'll be paying the money.
I’d be amazed if this makes them rich, I’d be surprised it just about covers the cost and that’s probably ignoring any development time.
i think they might, 552498 profiles at 1.5 Canadian a month. That’s 100,000 Canadian per 1% of those profiles that upgrade.
i think they might, 552498 profiles at 1.5 Canadian a month. That’s 100,000 Canadian per 1% of those profiles that upgrade.
Yeah, but as Canadian Bacon demonstrated, that's about £10 total.
Obviously it depends on where you ride but i think trailforks is brilliant , i was at Balquhidder this morning for the first time and knocked off everything i wanted without to much trouble . There is a time for exploring but if your into riding up fire roads and down hand cut singletrack trails i'd say its a bargain .
How big is the free "home" square?
38 square miles but you can set it to wherever you want .
3600 square kilometers (i.e. 60km x 60km)
I’ve jumped straight in and subscribed. Love the app and the integration with my Garmin. Data is a bit thin locally but the potential is there. Strava has all the segments but too much to be useful at times and the Strava segment explore/search just doesn’t work well for me. I can see Trailforks replacing Strava for me In the future
while i'd agree that the subscription model can end up kind of expensive ( i do not subscribe to streaming music, films, strava, zwift or anything else for that matter aside from utilities and council tax. phone is a straight out purchase with PAYG monthly subscription, cheap internet with no TV package ) this is not one of those occasions.
TBH i rather think it will lead people back to the idea of shouting out for a local guide when they go somewhere new which i think is a much better way of doing things but for those bemoaning the temerity of a company wishing to make money, FFS, get with it. 10 quid a year? that'll buy you two pints. 🙄
Think I would rather pay for this than strava....
Looking at strava segments hurts my head. Zooming in and out, never really knowing which direction the trail flows.
Am toying with getting Komoot, Trailforks is cleaner than Komoot.
The traditional map makers are the ones who are going to lose out. I always used to buy a map of a new or interesting area, but no longer see the need.
jam bo
Subscriber
hands up how many have actually contributed to trailforks rather than just consumed…I added a few a while back but I seem to remember it being quite a tortuous process so I lost interest.
(hand in the air)
I've been the admin for Scotland for a few years, and the UK admin for a couple of years. Currently 6th highest contributor in the world.
The process is simple if you read the guides before you start adding content. It becomes difficult when you add stuff that doesnt meet the criteria required for inclusion.
On a side note.. If there are areas where there are trails but they aren't on Trailforks, feel free to ping me a message on trailforks and i will have a look at having them uploaded. Same goes if you find mistakes etc..
https://www.trailforks.com/profile/gav-s/
My 2p on the charges .. I can understand why people are getting upset, nobody likes it when you have to pay for something that you were once getting for free.. BUT, in order for trailforks to become more functional, more useful and just generally better.. It needs cash.
I fully understand that what's been put into Trail forks by the developers needs rewarding in some way, I just think that it may be to early in it's life, globally speaking. Sure it's doing well in North America,much of the English speaking world and around major bike tourist hot spots.
In countries where trail associations aren't the norm, it's underdeveloped and now that they're starting to charge, surely the user generated content will stagnate in those areas now. What's the point of feeding content into a subscription service?
Another possible side effect; would trail associations see donations through TF decline now that there's a subscription?
Does anyone have a better idea now how Garmin integration is affected by the subscription changes? Today seems to be the last day for getting the pro subscription at half price.
The trailforks layer on my Edge 530 seems to be at least 6 months out of date which suggests that it wasn't updated that regularly before the subscription changes came into effect. I don't need monthly updates but if it won't ever be updated again without the pro subscription I may be tempted to pay for it.
ocrider - I'd politely disagree. It's still free to locals (who will be doing most of the content uploading), so I expect we'll see slower growth but not "stagnation".
Perhaps a wider local area may have been wise, which they can still tweak, but personally I have no problem at all paying a small amount for such a useful app.
And I think a large number of people will subscribe in order to use it when "away".
I do not think you complain about the price.it costs next to nothing.
With strava being so road biased, as well as finding the route planning function bobbins I cancelled my subscription as it was a lot of money to be ‘curious’ about the times I was putting in on tracks in the grand scheme. Trailforks has been really quite useful for the places I don’t know that well, allowing me to maximise the ride time.
its still clunky but seemed very reasonable in comparison, and it’s more mtb biased certainly in my area anyway
I've stumped up for the subs.
Seems a very small price for how usefull the app is.
I've shunned strava subs, but happy to pay for trailforks. Way more useful, especially for riding in a new area and finding the trails (doubly so with Garmin integration)
If I need longer route planning then I find Komoot quite good. Relatively easy to start with a base route and then tweak it to suite before syncing the route to Garmin.
I've stumped up as well, £12 for the year seems a very reasonable price. I don't use it very often but think it's an excellent app when I do.
Perhaps a wider local area may have been wise,
30km in any direction seems about right. Enough to let you demo the app and see if it works, and enough that it's probably edge cases who will know trails outside the area enough to contribute.
Give me an area of 60x60km and I can probably contribute data on local trails and/or it's just telling me what I already know.
Make it bigger than that and I'd be consuming so makes sense to pay for it.
Also, $1.50 a month, how many wrong turns and pushing up a brambly mess of a deer trail that looked promising but faded out do you have to take to make it worth $1.50!
Jesus christ. I just cant believe anyone would moan about Trailforks daring to try generate some income that will allow them to make the app even better. STW really is the dailymail of the cycling forums.
Currently 6th highest contributor in the world.
Hats off to gavstorie. Tremendous effort.
Now I see your name I realise I follow you on strava, I ride the inners uplift almost every week and tend to look at the top 10 times on the day of the main trails I ride and follow those accounts. Think I've spotted that yeti a couple times. I'll say hello next time.
Just checked credit card and years subscription was £10.88. So about two visits to the Peel car park. Swithered about bothering but had an off piste ride at Glentress last week and it was invaluable in finding my way to the start and more importantly where I was at the end of trails. Will give it a year and see how much use I get out of it, but had a tenners use of worth out of it since I had it for sure.
Have signed up for it myself. Just a few examples, couple of years ago i used it abroad when i gave up on the cycle route map i got given, meant i knew what path i could take and went off and just explored the countryside. Also handy when up at places like innerleithen, good to know what track youre actually on! Used it a couple of weeks ago to find some of the strathpeffer route. Wouldnt have done any of them without the app so i think its good value for about a pound a month
