[Closed] Tour de France 2015 - It's over and it's time to look back thread.

Given Oleg's comments (am I allowed to call him that when I've never met him?) which young French riders are out of contract? Pinot (can't spell his first name, can I call him T?) is the other obvious possibility. Let the speculation start here...

A really enjoyable TdF to follow this year. Made all the better as it wasn't 'just' about the top4 (or top 5 until TJvG dropped out), there were many stand out riders.

Highlights for me included Geraint's amazing tour, Porte's support for Froome. Froome himself for a well composed, resilient performance across the 3 weeks, Sagan's brilliant attacking riding (oh so wanted a stage win for him), Bardet's skillful descending, Cummings' opportunistic blast past the arguing French double-act, the list is endless.

Was sad to see many drop out due to illness or injury. Never good to see top riders like Cancellara and Martin fall and injure and was a shame not to see more of Peter Kenaugh (sp?).

Movistar performed well - as many have said, had Quintana had a better week 1, the tour would have had a potentially different story. But Valverde supported him well - a surprise over the 3 weeks.

Nibali rode back into contention, but it was little too late - and I am still divided on that unsportsman-like move when Froome was held up.

Cav did well to keep going through the tour, but (altho I'm a Cav fan) I was pleased to see Greipel win on the Champs.

But where was Cofidis? And I didn't think OricaGE featured that much. Would have liked to see more success for EuropCar in terms of Pierre Rolland.

MTN/Qhubeka however - they acquitted themselves admirably, easily earning their Would Tour status and TdF invite.

Thank you to all of you who put up the daily posts - it's really appreciated - and also thanks to those of you contributing. Was always great to check into the threads when away from the TV. Would love to have the same for the Vuelta

which young French riders are out of contract? Pinot (can't spell his first name, can I call him T?) is the other obvious possibility. Let the speculation start here...

Sky to get marginal gainseeee and employ Rossi (other GOAT's are available) to teach the boy what an apex is?

And I didn't think OricaGE featured that much.

Hard to feature when the poor guys were dropping like flies! Very tough Tour for the team.

Sky to get marginal gainseeee and employ Rossi (other GOAT's are available) to teach the boy what an apex is?

It was pretty funny that everyone was talking about how Pinot was "cured" and then promptly tried to pedal around a hairpin and hit the ground like a sack of spuds

Poor ****er! He was defo better last year to be fair. He does seem to be a chap that gets stuck in his own head and can't let things go, cobbled stage being a good example, the stage where his team mate (?) crashed this year seemed to also shake him right up, didn't one of his best mates also die in a crash? Perhaps some work on the inner chimp would help (moar Sky references...), although, Sky are a bit crashy, don't pair him with Thomas!

He's a huge talent, would be great to see him on a big team.

Or is Barguil the great (red) white (and blue) hope? Would G happily race with him provided he comes bearing sunglasses? Maybe Sky are signing all 3?

Got a lot of time for Pinot. Would be cool to see him with a bigger, more efficient team behind him.

It was pretty funny that everyone was talking about how Pinot was "cured" and then promptly tried to pedal around a hairpin and hit the ground like a sack of spuds

B.A.Nana » They hate the fact that English is now the predominant language in the peloton, when 20 years ago nobody but one or two riders spoke English.

aracer - Member
It goes back a little further than that - English speakers won 4 TdFs more than 20 years ago. However if we include all of those subsequently removed from the record books, that's now 16 TdF wins for English speakers since a French speaker last won one (and actually 7 of those were probably done just on bread and water, which may be more than the French have ever done).

Funny's not the word I'd use - looked like he was right on the limit and a pretty gentle pedal input just skated him a smidge over it. You make him sound life some ham-footed eedjit

No, he hit his inside pedal on the floor and fell off. Pretty basic error.

So if Sky signed up a French GC contender what would the French think about them then? And if the French chap then won the Tour?! Maybe this is Dave's plan to get them onside?

Speaking of Skynet's long-term plans, I recall Brailsford mentioning the possible goal of winning the tour with a French rider.

I read that this also annoyed the French (or at least some of them!) Think they took it as a suggestion that a French team didn't have the ability to put together a proper GC challenge and it would take the backing of a foreign team.

I recall Brailsford mentioning the possible goal of winning the tour with a French rider.

Jeez, their fans would implode and start throwing cups of piss all over themselves at the dichotomy.

Do it Dave. Just for shits and giggles. With Tricolor branding instead of the Sky blue (or yellow) bands. **** them right up. And make Froome back into a super domestique heavy lifting for them as well.

you lot seem the ones with issues regarding french people , not the other way round .

the french press is always critical of anyone winning the tour . L equipe always attacked LA .
maybe it is due to the fact that the press own the Tour , L equipe and Le parisien newspapers is same company as ASO .

As i said in another thread , Yellow jerseys have always been harrassed on the road , nothing to do with their nationality or articles in the press .

Can you imagine the conflict of emotions if they took Pinot or Rolland, riders with potential but one who've never really delivered and turned then into tour winners? Yes, we have a French tour winner...but he's riding for Sky. Yes, that means Sky invested in our riders and made them tour champions...but it means that Marc Madiot could't...Ahhhhhhh

Chris have you evidence to back up the French press giving Cadel Evans or Nibali shit?
Love the idea of Froome being a super domestique to help a French Sky rider win Le Tour. Personally I think he will see the humour in it and be right up for it!

I can't really see where Barguil, Bardet or Pinot would fit in with Sky right now and I'm not sure it would be good for them.

Maybe in a couple of years though, depending how they develop.

Rolland is the answer for Sky, a climbing domestique, loved by the French who, with time, could possible have a crack at GC. He'd do a right job for them, he may also be available cheaply very soon.

mudshark - Member
So if Sky signed up a French GC contender what would the French think about them then? And if the French chap then won the Tour?! Maybe this is Dave's plan to get them onside?

It'd be a massive risk for Sky. To draw a (non-doping) comparison with USPS, they hired Cedric Vasseur who was pretty popular in France and then did little with him. That really pissed off the French and made them dislike USPS even more.

If Sky took on a good French rider but in any way were perceived to not have given him a clear chance (imagine how the French press would have reacted if say Porte was French) to win big, they'd get crucified.

So essentially, the only good PR for Sky would be if they took a Pinot, Barguil, etc, made them the defacto team leader for the TdF and then won. A year of being super domestique for Froome might be acceptable but anything more than that would be seen as treachery.

[i] I read that this also annoyed the French (or at least some of them!) Think they took it as a suggestion that a French team didn't have the ability to put together a proper GC challenge and it would take the backing of a foreign team[/i]

It's a sort of "we want a French winner, but we don't want the Rozbeef to do it for us".
Which I can kinda see where the French would be coming from there. I read DB's comments of possibly winning the TdF with a French rider, to be arrogant and patronising. Therefore, no wonder that kinda of talk gets DB's short shrift with the French.

Rolland is the answer for Sky, a climbing domestique, loved by the French who, with time, could possible have a crack at GC. He'd do a right job for them, he may also be available cheaply very soon.

This would make a lot more sense.

They want a French winner who does it the French way.

You have to see this in the broader context. There's a common narrative about the world and the way the US/UK are taking it away from a lot of things held dear in France - longer working hours, less time with family, austerity and so on. These are seen as damaging to the French way of life.

Sky are an extension of that - the big corporate, win at all costs and don't care about the style/romance/history of it if it gets in the way. The whole thing about going to a mountain for weeks on end without family and living like a monk is not the French way. Similarly, steamrollering stages of the TdF as Sky have done destroys the romance of it.

Rolland would be a disaster for the reasons I stated above. The French press would claim he was being held back from his true potential to be Froome's bitch.

[quote=nemesis ]They want a French winner who does it the French way.

Good luck with that. The winners were taking it seriously way before Sky came along (I'm sure Hinault would spend weeks training at altitude if he was riding now).

Rolland would be a disaster for the reasons I stated above. The French press would claim he was being held back from his true potential to be Froome's bitch.

You are massively overthinking the issue in this and your previous post and I'm not convinced by your stereotyping anyway.

@ Sputnik , dont recall anything on Evans but I am sure L equipe did a few peices on nibali .

What has been missing for a long time in le Tour is what we call Panache . US Postal and to a certain extend Sky have contributed to it . Basically yellow jerseys riding behind a strong team without attacking .

This year has been different, more attacks , Sky not as strong in the mountains leaving Froome exposed a little bit more .
and when talking to friends in france , they dont seem to dislike him as much as the press , because he had to defend the yellow jersey by himself .

Last year there was a lot of talks of Pinot going to Sky . FDJ cannot afford top riders , and last year they had to get rid of their top sprinter , maybe to keep Pinot ?

What has been missing for a long time in le Tour is what we call Panache . US Postal and to a certain extend Sky have contributed to it . Basically yellow jerseys riding behind a strong team without attacking .

Yet when they do attack the Frenchies then accuse them of cheating.....

hmmmm

Yet when they do attack the Frenchies then accuse them of cheating.....

it's not "The Frenchies" it's certain sections of the french press and certain sections of the anglophone press are just as vocal. Take Paul Kimmage and Ross Tucker for example.

lunge - Member
Rolland is the answer for Sky, a climbing domestique, loved by the French who, with time, could possible have a crack at GC. He'd do a right job for them, he may also be available cheaply very soon

My, my. We think alike.. 😯

Don't forget that Sky could do with another Kyri', he can't do every GC Tour and sat aside for this one but will be back in the Vuelta. Who'd replace him? Stannards good, but not Kyri good, in fact there isn't anyone like Kyri around.

So Rolland, good fit, a Kyri clone, and Froomie, with Thomas, Konig, Powls, Landa, Izzagure brothers and an ex world champ..

Bloody Hell Guys... thatz awsomz a lineup. 😀

No wonder Tinkoff is sabre rattling, the French Press shoring up the Bastille, Lafevre in tears..

😀

Indeed lemonysam. This thread is getting an unpleasant whiff of bigotry.

What has been missing for a long time in le Tour is what we call Panache . US Postal and to a certain extend Sky have contributed to it . Basically yellow jerseys riding behind a strong team without attacking .

Maybe they ought to reduce the size of the teams to 6 rather than 9. You can't blame teams for using a winning strategy, as long as it's within the rules.

I thought that a few years back the French had decided to mimic British cycling and set up an national academy to act as a development/feeder system for the olympics and a new world tour team. Did it get off the ground, or fall to the usual french squabbling like Bardet and Pinot on stage 14 ! AGR and FDJ had reasonably good tours, Europcar are folding and Cofidis and Bretagne-Seche did absolutely nothing. They need to find so new sponsors if they wish to end the drought

No chance you'll find another Kyri!! Pretty sure he just disconnects his brain from his legs, inputs the desired Wattage required then has a nice wee day dream until they explode! Man's a machine.

Indeed lemonysam. This thread is getting an unpleasant whiff of bigotry.

Bit more than a whif really. The British press pilloried Froome as a plastic Brit when Wiggins was around but now he's "our double Tour winner" it seems to be different but they need something shocking so they need to talk about the sneaky frogs. You read the Daily Mail website and you'd think all British people are cycle-hating-EDL-supporting-xenophobes and unsurprisingly it turns out that if you read comments on French mass-media websites, there's a load of moronic bile and vitriol too.

TBH, my experience of Britain vs. France negativity tends to be lighter hearted on the French side than the British side. French people as a whole quite like the British and it's very rare it gets much past the "Rostbif" or comments about Britain's poor (relative to France) culinary tradition. Having seen and heard what my mother (French) has gone through living in the UK compared to my father (British) when they've been living in France, it's the British who, on balance, are the worst towards their cross channel chums.

From my quick survey most French people I know who watched it thought the Tour was great and think Froome did a great job. Likewise they deplore the piss throwing and spitting and are as horrified as anyone else.

p.s.
Bardet under contract to AG2R until 2018

I think the bad eggs on the tour route stood out this year because it doesn't happen as much on the TDF. Watch the Giro and especially the Vuelta for entire mountainsides of partisan dickheadary.

Well, I caught up with that Sagan vid posted on page 2, iirc.

He's a lad! Although the podium routine was a little weird.

I hope I get to see him ride many more tours.
Good to see what appears to be a young man, enjoying himself as part of participating in world class sport.

Such a good Tour I'd almost forgotten about the Boom/Astana fiasco, and the Paolini mess too 🙁

Speaking of Sagan, just seen this...

Think we've all been there 😳

Speaking of Skynet's long-term plans, I recall Brailsford mentioning the possible goal of winning the tour with a French rider.

That was just a PR sound bite. You guys are waaaaay over thinking things

They want a French winner who does it the French way.
You have to see this in the broader context. There's a common narrative about the world and the way the US/UK are taking it away from a lot of things held dear in France - longer working hours, less time with family, austerity and so on. These are seen as damaging to the French way of life.
Sky are an extension of that - the big corporate, win at all costs and don't care about the style/romance/history of it if it gets in the way. The whole thing about going to a mountain for weeks on end without family and living like a monk is not the French way. Similarly, steamrollering stages of the TdF as Sky have done destroys the romance of it.

Perhaps they should roll around drinking Chateneuf-du-Pap from Bidons with a Gauloise hanging out the corner of the mouth. You know, to keep it authentic and French.

I don't really buy that. It's a bit arrogant to suggest the French see the TdF as a national nostalgia-fest rather than a sporting endeavour.

Having said all that, I'd like to see another French winner. I think it would be good for the spectacle.

[i] Think we've all been there[/i]

Not since about 12 years old. Always pop a wheelie with my right hand hovering over the brake lever which has allowed me to get it back when I've travelled too far past the "sweet spot"

Sagan appears to be fairly handy....

Or this:

You're free to disagree, superficial. I don't believe though that the French (or many others) see the TdF as only a sporting endeavour though.

I suppose that I should add that I'm half-French FWIW.

If some of the French guys are so good or have so much potential then why are they stuck at small and generally unsuccessful teams?

They want a French winner who does it the French way.

None of us really know but I find it hard to disagree with this ^

Take Pinot for example. Can you see him leaving the coaching of his older brother and familiar surroundings he has grown up with for a more sterile, win at all costs, objective coaching setup somewhere like SKY? It doesn't suit everyone, regardless of nationality

When i was a kid i remember the Tour finishing in my home town . being a small town , less than 25k , it was easy to cycle round all the hotels where the teams were staying .
having your bmx " fine tuned " by the team Z mechanic was great .

watching the end of the stage in the RMO bus because it was parked outside your house even better . and all the riders coming back to the bus after the stage .

and off course in those days the caravan used to give lots of pens , t shirts , goodies etc...

it was a real buzz and great atmosphere . definetly more than just a sporting event .

If some of the French guys are so good or have so much potential then why are they stuck at small and generally unsuccessful teams?

They're not stuck. They're just young.

They aren't all young and young guys from elsewhere are still being successful (in overall GT GC terms)!

UCI rankings are a bit rubbish, but the top 5 French guys are Pinot (FDJ), Bardet (AG2R), Vuillermoz (AG2R), Alaphilippe (Etixx), Gallopin (Lotto). What seems to happen is the stronger classics riders appear to make the transition well to Belgian/ Dutch super teams if they move out of France but there isn't a great deal of movement in the past years of climbers/ GC possibles to non-French teams. Barguil is a Giant which is historically French although now registered in Germany so could be argued to have made the move, but I can't think of many if any very talented French GC/ climbers moving to non-French teams (just Gadret?). You've then got the likes of Rolland, Voeckler, Peraud, Cherel, Sicard, Gautier, Feillu... realistic GC potential is hard to judge maybe but all on French teams

Maybe it is perceived that the opportunity for young French climbers/ possible GC riders is on French teams but the jump up to the bigger teams in terms of funding, structure and support is probably too large for this to become a reality? There does seem to be a loyalty or attachment of these riders to French teams

I guess you could also add Moreau as a French rider to move to a Spanish team and the likes of Casar and Riblon as talented riders who stayed in France... As I tried to say above, perhaps all aren't realistically GC contenders but all are strong climbers loyal to French teams and who knows what might have been on other teams

I guess what I'm saying is that seeing a French TdF GC winner will likely take an attitude shift of the upcoming riders to make the most of bigger teams, or the French teams with talented riders need to step up their funding, organisation and support for their guys. Neither seems very likely