[Closed] Time Trails... what do I need to know?

They are grim, and boring.

You post some decent times once you get used to delivering the measured effort, then it comes down to waiting for better weather and/or getting entries accepted to ride the faster courses.

I've done it in the past, it's ok, but it's not as much fun as cyclocross racing.

Warmup. Pedal as hard as you can for distance. Make yourself sick and dizzy. Limp home and collapse. Repeat.

Oh I missed. Start yearning ever more expensive kit.

I've done about 10 and now have an aero helmet, skinsuit, clipons and 404s. Next step new frame, and a disk...

Pretty much what DT78 said. Can get quite addictive and expensive.

Is a time trail like a nature trail, but more focused on history? My kids would be into that sort of thing I'm sure...

You might as well measure your power in a lab and post it on the internet so you can compare yours to everyone else's. Cos that's all it is.

They're grim and very exciting. Pootle up and down a road for ten minutes to get warm, a man in his 70's then holds your fork and seattube before you fire yourself along the road as hard as you can for however far you're supposed to go, then you nearly vomit (not tried hard enough) or vomit (success) and either ride very shakily home or put the bike back in the car.

Repeat weekly and see yourself improve measurably for a while (about a year in my case) then hit a wall and start buying expensive kit.

There's a lot more than power to riding a good time trial.

Kit does make a difference, but it doesn't have to be that expensive. I gave it a pretty decent go last year on a pretty small budget. Not sure the motivation is there for another year though to invest a lot more time and cash to make the next step.

10 mile TT: 110% of threshold heart rate
25 mile TT: 100% of threshold heart rate
50 mile TT: 80-90% of threshold heart rate
100 mile TT: 70-80% of threshold heart rate

Aero toys make you go faster for the same heart rate but buy carefully:
Free: rotate saddle forwards and up slightly to get lower.
Add clip on bars to stay lower.
After position, a skinsuit is the most cost-effective investment. Get used to wearing one
A used aero helmet (Giro Advantage for £30) will buy more time but they are not very comfortable.
Unless you are running 3/5 spokes and a disk, see above for time savings. Go VERY deep or don't bother.

If you are not OCD about numbers, it's probably not for you, but Aerolab in golden cheetah is great on short circuits like Hillingdon (Weds evenings) 🙂

You might as well measure your power in a lab and post it on the internet so you can compare yours to everyone else's. Cos that's all it is.

Nonsense.

Already ordering a Bontrager Ballista 😀

Sounds like a Trainerroad session, yet outside. The efforts fine, this will be an extension of my training for MTB as a side passion to get the road bike in-use. I already have some TT Bars.

If you are not OCD about numbers

I'm quite safe there TiRed. As my wife has a dance class Tuesdays Wednesday TT's are very likely.

Galibier.cc do decent well priced skinsuits

get the road bike in-use.

How long I wonder till the Kryton "how much faster would I be on a proper TT bike" thread. You have been warned 🙂

You can use your road bike, play around with the setup and stick on aerobars etc and get a half decent position, but it's usually a big compromise and a massive faff changing from road to TT and back.

If you want to retrofit aero bars to your road bike, try slamming and inverting the stem, so the hoods are then almost too low to allow you to ride the bike. You will get a much better tuck than if you simply fit them.

Oh and for your first 10 do not follow the advice of just going out and thrashing yourself. I blew up in the first 2 miles hitting 39.8mph within the first couple of minutes. The next 20 minutes were horrendous.

It's about thirds. First third up to pace, next maintain, final third empty the tank.

Or get a power meter and stare at the screen (yet to do an official tt with my new PM)

My knees are only MM from my elbows as it is Molgrips!

Show us a pic.

Or get a power meter and stare at the screen (yet to do an official tt with my new PM)

Some of my worst races have been spent doing this chasing a power value. Now just glance at it every now and again.

They are grim, and boring.

[b]Wrong[/b]
They are the most painful form of meditation.
They will take you to your edge of reason ,where you will discover your true self.
You will feel everything about your body and surroundings,in tiny detail.
You will focus on plants and blades of grass at the side of the road,searching and hoping for any change in the wind.
The flag in the distance,those last hundred yards,hands locked out front,in prayer to the seconds.

Have fun and enjoy the cake. 😉

molgrips - Member
Show us a pic.

Its not set up.

They are the most painful form of meditation.
They will take you to your edge of reason ,where you will discover your true self.
You will feel everything about your body and surroundings,in tiny detail.
You will focus on plants and blades of grass at the side of the road,searching and hoping for any change in the wind.
The flag in the distance,those last hundred yards,hands locked out front,in prayer to the seconds

*like*

Start fast, speed up then try to go quicker at the end

It can be cheap: £450 bought me this Shorter and it has more history than a shop of Cervelos. It now has a (£50 used) carbon front end to raise the bars and rests for 100 mile comfort, but is otherwise original.

[img] ?oh=2e7a78a83398d854867995d1dbeb9778&oe=56E57633[/img]

TT bikes don't get a lot of use. Go retro and show your class 8)

for your first 10 do not follow the advice of just going out and thrashing yourself

It’s always a constant assessment of, ‘how hard am I trying, how far do I have to go, and is this sustainable?’ If the answer to the latter is ‘yes’ then you’re not going hard enough, if the answer is ‘no’ then it’s already too late, so the answer you’re looking for is ‘maybe’. Always maybe.

Fasthaggis, like that.

It's actually a pretty mentally demanding thing. That quote of Chris's is pretty spot on. Always juggling HR, candence, power, time, distance, evaluating the terrain, push harder, hold back, am I holding my aero position... lot going on inside the tiny bubble of an aero helmet. As Dr Hutch said about riding time trials, "I'm always doing maths."

I did my first time trial this year and despite the horrible, truly foul wet and windy weather I actually enjoyed it. I was disappointed in how fresh I felt at the end compared to the horror stories I'd heard.

Must. Go. Harder.

[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5663/22753902837_7219a4b01f.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5663/22753902837_7219a4b01f.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/AEFGzB ]My first time trial[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/stilltortoise/ ]stilltortoise[/url], on Flickr

molgrips - Member
They are grim, and boring.

+1

Far better things to do on a Weds eve than be tailgated by trucks/cars/busses/milk floats on a mentally busy A road or Dual Carriageway .. at dusk or dark or broad daylight come to that.

Let us know how you get on will you.

Bikebouy, thankfully not done many races that fit that description, some do though.

Some love the things, some loath the things.. where do I stand? Hmmmm...

Still, I see the benefits for some who love em' 😐

They are the most painful form of [s]meditation[/s] cycling.
They will take you to your edge of reason ,where you will [s]discover your true self.[/s] wonder wtf you are doing
You will [s]feel everything about your body and surroundings,in tiny detail.
You will focus on plants and blades of grass at the side of the road,searching and hoping for any change in the wind[/s] be bored rigid.

😉 Of all the forms of competitve cycling I've done, TTing is the easiest to get into and hands down the least fun and rewarding.

I think though the science says you should accurately determine your threshold and stick to it, no? I was told this by a very good cyclist and experienced tester.

So then the best method would in fact be to stare at a power meter screen.

Ok I'll admit there is some interest in chasing someone down, but then when you cruise past them you realise they're much slower than you so it's not much of a victory anyway. What's properly exciting is being eyeball to eyeball with someone on the track. Now I can wax lyrical about that!

I think though the science says you should accurately determine your threshold and stick to it, no? I was told this by a very good cyclist and experienced tester.

Probably if you have a pan flat course, ideal conditions, and know accurately what your max power is for the anticipated duration. Not often the case.

So then the best method would in fact be to stare at a power meter screen.

Try it and see how you get on 🙂

I have done it quite a few times.

I was asking specifically about the local Cardiff course which is quite undulating, don't think there's any flat at all. The question was is it worth going into the red on the climbs and recovering on the descents, and he said no.

The question was is it worth going into the red on the climbs and recovering on the descents, and he said no.

I'd say it depends on a lot of factors, how steep, how much your speed is dropping, what's the descent like, where are you on the course, can you stay in aero position, etc. Also depends what you mean by going into the red, if you mean pushing a lot harder then usually not worth it as you won't recover and you'll lose time on the rest of the course, but a few watts harder can often get you a few seconds.

If you were an experienced tester giving advice to a new tester, you'd likely say no.

And your cyclist power profile. I'd gain much more but sitting just under Lactate threshold on a gradient and going into the red on a flat.

In fact I came 8th in a sportive once - I appreciate its not a race - by sitting up on the hills then powering - basically TTing - through a 35 mile flat section on the drops after I learned the course profile beforehand.

My local clubs TT is undulating which plays to my weakness quite well so I see this as an ideal mechanism to increase / test my power.

So then the best method would in fact be to stare at a power meter screen.

I struggle to maintain focus in a way that I never do in a road race - too much going on in the latter. I did a four-up 30 mile TTT this summer which was a lot more fun though.

Based on your road race thread Kryton, I think you might like it. Apart from the weather and a bit of traffic no doubt, everything is in your own control.

Yep, 5 minutes in you'll be in agony, wondering why you're doing it. But once you've crossed the line, its a great buzz. Its not reliant on you hanging on in the bunch, feeling strong but then getting outsprinted. Its all your own effort, minimal tactics, just pedal hard.

You can add aero kit but its the position that clip on bars will give you that will save you the most initially.

I still prefer road racing but TT feels more controllable.

I see this as an ideal mechanism to increase / test my power.

It might well be good training.. of course it might well not...

Its not reliant on you hanging on in the bunch, feeling strong but then getting outsprinted.

See - for me, that sprinting bit is the very essence of racing, the whole point. It's why I find TTing dull, and why I find being mid-pack in an XC race similarly dull.

It'd be like making the winner of a football match the team who has the most passes.

mtbtomo - Member
Based on your road race thread Kryton, I think you might like it. Apart from the weather and a bit of traffic no doubt, everything is in your own control.

We reached the same conclusions I can't afford to have my bike or me smashed up, but I want to compete. MTB racing & TT gives me that scenario much more in my control*.

See - for me, that sprinting bit is the very essence of racing, the whole point. It's why I find TTing dull, and why I find being mid-pack in an XC race similarly dull.

I'll still be XC racing for my kicks, but I won't sit mid-pack in boredom molgrips, you might want to re-think your strategy 😀

*having also discovered what a lot of people already know about me, I'm much more comfortable when I'm in control.

@molgrips....yeah, I'm not grumbling about road racing, I absolutely love it, but you're not in control of all the variables and could be fitter all round than other rides, yet the result goes the other way.

Did a club 10 a few years ago, got so bored that when my phone buzzed I actually answered and had a conversation 😳

Managed a short 22 (road bike)
Only 40 odd seconds off my PB....... I shouldn't have answered the phone.

I absolutely love it, but you're not in control of all the variables and could be fitter all round than other rides, yet the result goes the other way.

That's the point! You could just as easily be slower than the other riders and still win by being canny.. which is what appeals to me about road racing.

[quote=molgrips ]Of all the forms of competitve cycling I've done, TTing is the easiest to get into and hands down the least fun and rewarding.
...

Have you ever wondered whether it really is just you?

Is a time trail like a nature trail, but more focused on history? My kids would be into that sort of thing I'm sure...

😆 😆 😆

I want to ride on a time trail!!!

Trundling up and down anonymous dual carriageways is one aspect of time trialling, but there's a lot more to it than that:

[img] [/img]

[url= https://flic.kr/p/djepQT ]Nearing the Summit of Dukes Pass. Paul Friel, Glasgow Couriers.[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/23666168@N04/ ]Paris-Roubaix[/url], on Flickr

People tend to do the standard distances, because it gives you an easy benchmark to compare your performance against, but I would recommend seeking out the interesting sporting courses instead. Team TTs are also great fun, and getting a team round a course together as fast as possible is an interesting challenge.