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I find the section on the blue (not sure what the name is) that snakes it's way through a flat section of woodland, back and forth, back and forth, to be very dull.
That is 100% my favourite trail !
I find the section on the blue (not sure what the name is) that snakes it's way through a flat section of woodland, back and forth, back and forth, to be very dull.
Stickler, it's very marmite.
Nail on the head. Stickler is only fun if you have the fitness to keep the speed high because there's no gradient. It's most fun in a group or chasing someone down / being chased as you have to keep pushing on until one of you has a heart attack as there is never a break!Probably because I'm mincing and you need to do it at pace to enjoy it.
Otherwise, turn right on the muddy track at the start and it brings you out at the next blue section (or carry on the same track and re-join the red but it misses the first few sections).
. Probably because I'm mincing and you need to do it at pace to enjoy it.
No, its the most uninspiring place to ride in the south east. Its 25 mins away from me & I really dont understand the appeal.
I think people miss the point of Stickler a bit (and I don't mean the story of why it came to be so sinuous and how it was built, have done that before and didn't like some of the responses)
It's not a Welsh trail centre..... there isn't the altitude to be able to do long fireroad climbs followed by masses of downhill (although I'll defend that Swinley isn't flat....there are lots and lots of sharp climbs, often up different sides of practically the same hill, and if you don't believe me, singlespeed it)
Stickler kind of does both.... if you hit it at speed it gives you the workout of a climb but still with some berms, trail features (!) etc. Like most jack of all trades, it isn't as good as a proper climb, or as good as a proper descent but as a bit of both and a means of getting from A to B (via C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L,M,N,O,etc.) while adding some length to the trail, it's not THAT bad.
I'd never really thought of it as a pseudo climb, but yes that's exactly what it is! That almost tempts me to do laps ot it
Well I certainly notice the short sharp fireroad climb to the top of the red section that goes back down the hill!
Sounds like I need to do it at pace, I can see how it might be good if someone is chasing you or you're chasing someone else. At pootling pace it's boring.
The red section is good fun though, although some of it is so narrow that I'm concentrating hard on not clipping my bars!
I'd never really thought of it as a pseudo climb, but yes that's exactly what it is! That almost tempts me to do laps ot it
I'm not a big fan, but I did a skills course and it's a very good trail for working on positioning / cornering / trail scanning etc etc.
Still boring though 😛
Well I certainly notice the short sharp fireroad climb to the top of the red section that goes back down the hill!
Presume you mean the climb upto deerstalker?
If you hate that one, try the one up the other side of the hill. I.e. do deerstalker/labrynth, and where it drops back onto the fireroad and turns left, go right (and right again etc) untill you get back to the top. It used to be referred to as 'the wall' for good reason!
The trail center definately does a good job of avoiding hills though, or at least taking easy routes up them so I'd not complain too much.
I rekon he means the one to top of Red25.
it's all bloody climbs without gears, and more than that they're just the right gradient so you can't spin up them and then add in the fact that on even the less steep sections there's always a bend in exactly the wrong place so you can't tear into it with momentum or the pebbles of doom will have you... so it's round the corner, then stand for 15 yards of low cadence big muscle effort, and rinse and repeat.
Seagull second section, perfect example.... those 3 switchbacks are a twiddle on gears, as it the bit after the new features. No gears, stand and grunt. Same with the section that meanders up to the fireroad that Tank Traps starts from, or the first bit of Tank Traps, or the hill after blue 7, or.....
I like to compare Swinley to Cannock - on the face of it similar, but actually quite different trail centres
Swinley as an xc blast I think is pretty good - flows well, and despite the lack of overall climbing gives a real work out if i'm pushing myself. Cannock does not flow as well for me, but obviously has longer and in my eyes better downhill sections. It's also a lot tighter through the trees and technically more difficult - I think many who describe Cannock as easy, don't do the black options.
Considering where it is in the country it's a bloody good start. It's changed alot over the years and hopefully will continue to do so.
There are a few sections which leave me wondering why it's as it is but as some have said, the faster you go the better it gets.
Swinley as an xc blast I think is pretty good - flows well, and despite the lack of overall climbing gives a real work out if i'm pushing myself. Cannock does not flow as well for me, but obviously has longer and in my eyes better downhill sections. It's also a lot tighter through the trees and technically more difficult - I think many who describe Cannock as easy, don't do the black options.
True, the Blacks at Cannock are properly black, especially on an XC hardtail. But then equally the whole Dog/Monkey loop is much less technical than Swinley's blue (if you count jumps as technical).
My only gripes with Swinley are:
1) Re-opening the old seagull was a mistake, it really hasn't coped with the traffic has it, and given it's nature I don't think it's possible to armour it (too tight in the trees).
2) The new jumps/drops on Seagull, yes more red features are very welcome, but that would have worked so much better with just one jump/drop at the bottom to let you pick up speed easily for it rather than having to sprint off the top of the climb. The effort of building them could have been spread out over more trail(s), even the section before it on the swoop down to the road, or the bit in the berms a few hundred meters before could have had the drops and added a bit of interest.
Stickler, it's very marmite.
Yeah, like I said before it's part of the "Earn your Turns" thing, I had a look last night at the [I]'Stickler long'[/I] segment on Strava my best time for it is a good two and a half minutes slower than the KOM time, almost 4000 places back, I've plenty of room for improvement, but that's still actually inside the top 25%. So a lot of people must have ridden it once and then sacked it off for being boring...
Yes it's a challenge to maintain speed and flow and choose your lines, and it fatigues you, but I kind of like that about it TBH, while it's not total unmitigated downhill fun it does force you to work on some rather key things for MTBing including fitness...
You can't just live on ice cream and gummy bears, sooner or later you have to eat your greens...
My best time for Stickler is 3 mins behind the KOM 🙁
Think it's technique (lack of) as much as fitness
Tinas totally agree about the new bits on red before newt. Very badly thought out.... Much better to have one jump/step further down so you can get speed up and then hit the roller at the bottom. The bottom drop is far too close to the roller.
I always run the trail parallel (not the fire road) to old seagull.... It's just a bog fest at the moment.
Here is my one little tip for today.... When you see the start of stickler, take a left (10 o'clock as you face the signpost) and run that trail all the way down, over the fireroad and keep going. See what you find.
I used a gpx file I found online: "Swinley's best bits", when I took dezbjr up there a few weeks back and it was superb - corkscrew, labyrinth, "old" stickler (?), couldn't have asked for a better route to show the kid round. Last time we tried a slightly longer one "Red-Blue-Red" and it wasn't nearly as good. Sounds like it had new stickler. Oh and a red that was very muddy, through the trees - wasn't actually on the route, but looked inviting and was not great 🙂
Anyway is anyone actually up for a South East - STW Swinley group ride this coming Saturday (30/09/17), Say meet up ~13:00hrs by the start of Blue 1?
Just treat it as a [i]"Social"[/i] ride, assume a slower paced trundle with lots of stopping to regroup and bypassing stickler if that's the majority preference?
Those in the know might choose to attend and show us some off piste perhaps?
Anyone?
Yeah, like I said before it's part of the "Earn your Turns" thing, I had a look last night at the 'Stickler long' segment on Strava my best time for it is a good two and a half minutes slower than the KOM time, almost 4000 places back, I've plenty of room for improvement, but that's still actually inside the top 25%. So a lot of people must have ridden it once and then sacked it off for being boring...Yes it's a challenge to maintain speed and flow and choose your lines, and it fatigues you, but I kind of like that about it TBH, while it's not total unmitigated downhill fun it does force you to work on some rather key things for MTBing including fitness...
You can't just live on ice cream and gummy bears, sooner or later you have to eat your greens...
I'm sat comfortably in the top 75 on that segment & i'm not exactly 'whippet' levels of fitness.
I will still happily turn left at the entrance and avoid the whole lot & ride off piste.
It's all kinds of dull.
Fair play, I need the workout still 😳
Yep, if you don't fancy it, you can save yourself 7-10 mins going round in circles on Stickler and turn left for a minute then pick the fire road up at the top of red 29, turn right and rejoin blue or start the red. Or continue down and pick the red 29 up half way. I think.
Wow, stickler long I'm 2min 09 off the kom. And that's 2336 out of 17,817
20sec quicker than me weeksy 😆
Being a pedant, the Stickler Long segment isn't actually what you ride these days as it's got the old entrance off the fire road from when you could ride it both ways, "blue route section 10 long" is the one that includes the straight ish bit parallel to the fire road.
1'49 off the KOM on the real one, 1'41 on the old one. And yes, I also like marmite,and the full labyrinth.
And for tinas that hill was k2, the wall was the climb if you stayed on the fire road instead of taking r15
Don't get me started on Stickler!
Well, alright then 😈 ... as said it needs speed really, especially to make the berms work (berms are for hills to catch the corners and flow through, not flat out pedalling 😛 ). Generally despise it, mainly as it's tediously boring, cobbles and berms on flat. Though it does have the rock garden of Swinley 😉 and the tree bridge.
As I understand it though, it was a BoB / Gorrick creation, likely for races back in the day and those types love endless twisty pedalling round stuff like that (reminds me of Area 51 over TH way they do races on. Though at least no cobbles and has some up and down).
Anyway, hook left at start of Stickler though, much nicer route. The old Whole Nine Yards, follow up to the man hole.
I can't do the 7th, and then I'm probably going to be pulling my MTB apart in about mid-late October...
cookeaa
50/50 chance of me being there Sat afternoon. Will post here nearer the time if there's much take-up.
Looks like I'm the slowest 'declared' time on Stickler 🙁 . I'm either going to improve my time or crash next time I'm on it
Saturday afternoon should be ok.
I'm all marmite about the stickler, nice on the single speed rigid if you leggit.
Sat afternoon could be a go-er for me 😀
Room for a fat slow biffer?
surely is current as it shows up every time I ride there and has done for the last 3 years and i stick to it as I love/hate Stickler ??Being a pedant, the Stickler Long
(Edit: Ha! just looked and you're spot on... it is the old entry point 😀 )
Also to do that and be
Hob Nob
comfortably in the top 75 on that segment & i'm not exactly 'whippet' levels of fitness.
Means that you'd only be about 15-20s slower over a 6min segment than some semi sponsored XC racing types that train round Swinley and are proper quick.... That's some going... I hope you're not going to claim you weren't trying 😆
OK then 30/09/2017 @ 13:00 hours I shall be by the start to Blue 1, @13:10 we set off...
Room for a fat slow biffer?
Absolutely. You won't be the only biffer.
1pm should be ok for me and the lad.
I may have to try and change my Sat plans then, i'm at a footy Cubs tournament in the morning, but not sure what time it finishes, if i can get there then i will and do my other stuff Sunday instead.
Means that you'd only be about 15-20s slower over a 6min segment than some semi sponsored XC racing types that train round Swinley and are proper quick.... That's some going... I hope you're not going to claim you weren't trying
On a DH bike, in full pyjamas with a full face on, such is the Swinley way. Joking of course. Can't remember what I was riding, probably a 29HT.
No, I turned myself inside out to do that - it hurt.
It's bloody impressive.
I can't go round there any/much quicker than i do, but very little is down to pure fitness, i simply can't make my bike quicker in the corners, i could probably gain a few bits really pushing it on the other bits, but i just can't corner quicker than i can corner !
Exactly with you weekly ^^^^
I just can't hold enough speed around the bends.
Cleared for 1pm Start with Social Secretary 😀
Anyone else find Swinley slippery as heck? All those polished pebbles in the trail I reckon. The bigger berms are ace, but the flatter twisty bits are really hard to take fast without risking the front wheel disappearing without notice.
Sometimes, i think it just takes the first part of a ride to get used to it. I also think it's grippier in different parts.
Blue 1/2/3 for example are very slippery, but then around Red15 etc you've got tonnes of grip.
Always Spin the Green 1st to find the grip levels
Yeah it was mostly the blue that was slippy last night. Red's a lot more grippy for the most part.
Just been out and hammered Sticker......
6:58!
It's riding really well, hopefully the weather holds for Sat! 😀
Bump to see if anyone else wants to join us..
I may be there, missed my usual mid week ride this week so could do with a spin.
Will be on a white O-O Fatty looking all bearded and hipster (or like a bedraggled tramp depending how sweaty I am).
7:31 and more depressingly that was 4 years ago at the end of a long ride, barely 9 minutes this year!