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Too late! Ah that explains it.
I hate those starts - the speed is so slow that I'm either slowing to get behind robbo or feathering to try and stay close. I really would prefer a minimum speed and distance or w/kg before the go, like 20km/h and 3k or 2.5w/kg something, to give a proper chance to blob up.
Anyway, I missed the go, but that was entirely irrelevant since I cramped up about 5k in trying to get back on. Had hoped to do the ZRL and this series, but body says no.
Will keep trying though !.
Ah, now I get the timings on the right hand side of the screen, I wondered how there was a pack in front of me but all had different time advantages.
It's a difficult one to gauge as yesterday I thought we had a good 5 or 6 seconds on the group behind then next thing I knew they were charging through us, obviously they had been closer than it was suggested.
Just something we need to accept until pen starts happen (if ever!) and take it into account if you are riding for a position with those next to you, just look at the numbers at the side and that will show you how you need to sprint in the final seconds.
The starts are what they are, yes you have to keep on the ball and I can see someone being caught out once but more than that then only yourself to blame 😉
Ditto the weird timings/different position of the finish... if anything it should encourage more big moves rather than just drafting someone, beating them in the sprint finish but STILL losing 😂
well I am pleasantly surprised to be top of the table! Although the sweat pouring out of all parts of my body may disagree.
I was happy with being at the front of the race for about 5 seconds at the start and keeping with the pro's until 4km in (the first short sharp climb). I had achieved all that I thought I would!
A bit gutted the sprint points only go to the first 5 places, as I ended 6th. But super chuffed with the final result.
I was in the 3rd group on the road once I had been dropped by the front and got swallowed up. it made life easier keeping pace with others. I was super surprised to see us catch Robbo & Oopnorth's group. You guys were a solid 30odd seconds in front for most of it. I guess our group was working hard but together to reel you in.
Then it was a case of trying to not let anyone break away, keep digging deep and try and sprint for the finish!
Thanks again for organising this Robbo, its the most pain/fun I have had in a while!
J-R the order we finished was you, me, TP which was the reverse of the actual result.
I wasn't paying attention but quite possibly. Although haven't we established that the finish line moves for everyone? Either way unless I'm missing the obvious I'm assuming that it makes no odds whether I come 6th, 7th or 8th from a points scoring perspective. Assuming that is that I cross the line on the wheel of the chap in front, I'll get same time, and it's the time that counts rather than the position?
Would be Useful to know as all last series my aim at the end of races was to just finish in the pack, rather than sprint for a higher position. Given in nearly all the races the bunch was fighting for 2nd or 3rd rather than the win, the extra effort seemed kinda pointless!
Assuming that is that I cross the line on the wheel of the chap in front, I’ll get same time
No TPB, I don’t think Zwift works like that, it gives each rider their own time.
And the discussion here is about the extra complexity of the end point being a little different for each person in the race, depending on where they originally spawned. So even if you think you finished alongside another rider, your Zwift time might be a few seconds different.
Just had a look on the "feature suggestions" part of the Zwift forums, someone suggested having the option to start meetups from the pen back in Aug, didn't get much support though! Can't hurt to add a vote and/or comment here:
https://forums.zwift.com/t/meetup-race-with-start-on-the-grid/506154
Sounds like fun, I'll try and get my Zwift set back up in time for next weeks race. Final club ride tonight before lockdown begins, I've been trying to put off indoor training for as long as I can... Do we post back on here with Zwift username to get added?
No idea what my FTP is now, haven't done a test since last winter.
I've commented on that forum suggestion...
I like the fact that the thread has a number of names I recognise 🙂
This was a frustrating but, in the end, a strong race for me. Zwift decided to throw some sort of a fit on me at the beginning. As soon as Robbo went Go Go Go my Zwift avatar decided to start "coasting" even though I was pedaling like fury. In the few seconds it took to sort itself out, everyone already had a 100m head start on me. Tried to power it out to catch up to the back of the pack as quickly as possible but could not get in touch with the leaders, so just had to keep my head down and TT it to the end. Picked off a couple of groups and stragglers that I guess had dropped off the lead, and thought I might have the legs to catch a couple more but ran out of energy and laps in the end. Have to be happy with a 5th place finish given the start.
Frustrating race for me too, got my best 1 min power and 5 min power but wasted way to much energy on the front and trying to make a break for it a couple of times. Normally I can stick with the fast boys for the first ten k's but with the climbs that didn't work. Onwards and upwards
No TPB, I don’t think Zwift works like that, it gives each rider their own time
Right you are..It does seem to add or subtract a few seconds for no real reason which may in rare situation make a difference to the points I suppose
I guess what I meant though is for the purposes of the results robbo pulls together it doesn't matter if I personally get 5th or 6th as my time will be same regardless, and as such my points will be the same. Ie there is no point in me madly sprinting to beat someone on the line by a wheel as it won't make a bit of difference to the points I get. So in last night's case, whilst i appear to have gained 4 sec on jr due to zwift irregularities, id have done that regardless of whether i finished just infront of him or just behind him?
So for me it makes no difference. However if I was in with a shout of winning a sprint for 1st I could see how it may piss me off a bit. That said I'd like to think I'd own up if I was credited a race win when I clearly wasn't first over line, and I'm sure others would as well.
Realistically I think there's almost two races going on simultaneously, the first is the "on the road" race which feels more relevant in the heat of the moment and the second is the actual timed results taking into account the handicaps and slight time differences.
I know myself that the tendency is to try and work with your group but then win the sprint for the best placing but for the points system it's more in-depth then that although it's difficult to keep on top of the various handicaps etc.
It really is a bit of a failing by zwift that you can't organise proper races for select participants. It must be a 5 min configuration for then to do it given the race functionality is already there so can't see what the motivation is to not do it.
Realistically I think there’s almost two races going on simultaneously,
Think you've nailed it there. I'm gunning for the on the road wins and hopefully picking enough sprint points to do 'ok' overall. But the handicap win is not going to happen, if it did the handicap has failed (imo). I'm happy to see the altered handicap appears to have slightly leveled the field from series one though (I.e. appearing higher up the results for the effort expended 😜).
Realistically I think there’s almost two races going on simultaneously, the first is the “on the road” race which feels more relevant in the heat of the moment and the second is the actual timed results taking into account the handicaps and slight time differences.
I know myself that the tendency is to try and work with your group but then win the sprint for the best placing but for the points system it’s more in-depth then that although it’s difficult to keep on top of the various handicaps etc.
The handicap aspect is of no relevance to me at all, doesn't enter into my head in the slightest.
I've got 5-6 racers who are 'targets' in races, the rest doesn't come into it. Sadly due to missing the start i lost several of them this week... but ended up right in the melting pot at the end of lap 2.... just lost it on the climb on 3.
Am I wrong in thinking that times of the people you are riding with give you an indication that although you’re together on the road there can be a time gap between you. For instance yesterday I was riding a lot of the time with J Osborn and T Ward (thanks guys and sorry I was a sleeping partner) and when I was with T Ward he was at – 2 secs to me although we were together so it was apparent that even if I had managed to stay with him I was never going to win the sprint.
I did wonder that when we were together as well; at least we know why now. I have just been reading up on drafting, it's very important it seems! I had been just riding at a pretty consistent wattage whether I'm in the draft, out of the draft (not that I knew if I was in or out lol) or going up hill. I have a lot to learn, which hopefully I will with these races. I've not done any road riding (and only a couple of Zwift races) so didn't realise that there are so many things to look out for and the tactics involved.
Hi, new to Zwift but am a long time reader of STW rather than posting much...
I'd like to join the races please, great shout and thanks for organising.
Name: Rad Charlie
(name Involved lots of crashing my first year at the Mega, never lived it down and has since stuck like glue)
Cheers!
Handicaps are now live for the second race. There is actually less elevation in this race than last week but the first hill will be tough out of the blocks and if you miss the cut you could lose minutes on your rivals. Would suggest 120% effort and hope to rest on the downhill the other side.
This is the actual elevation profile:
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/HkSwCYWg/Roule-Ma-Poule-Elevation.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/HkSwCYWg/Roule-Ma-Poule-Elevation.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
This shows the sprint location:
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/1z2DfvN7/Race-2-Profile.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/1z2DfvN7/Race-2-Profile.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
2 chances to pick up some bonus points this week although we only go through them once so you don't get an opportunity to improve! IF you miss your group on the start this could be a valid place to make up some points.
1 point will be a bonus
I did wonder why people had said it was going to be hard going - your original profile shows us starting at the top of the hill, which, as I'm sure many of us "rouleurs" would agree, is a much better option!
I might cruise up the climb and try and nail the sprints...
Am I wrong in thinking that times of the people you are riding with give you an indication that although you’re together on the road there can be a time gap between you. For instance yesterday I was riding a lot of the time with J Osborn and T Ward (thanks guys and sorry I was a sleeping partner) and when I was with T Ward he was at – 2 secs to me although we were together so it was apparent that even if I had managed to stay with him I was never going to win the sprint.
I did wonder that when we were together as well; at least we know why now. I have just been reading up on drafting, it’s very important it seems! I had been just riding at a pretty consistent wattage whether I’m in the draft, out of the draft (not that I knew if I was in or out lol) or going up hill. I have a lot to learn, which hopefully I will with these races. I’ve not done any road riding (and only a couple of Zwift races) so didn’t realise that there are so many things to look out for and the tactics involved.
I do exactly the same, just go at the pace I want to, struggle to adjust my pace to ride with others in Zwift, fine in real life though.
I slowed down to fall in with you guys and as with every time I do that I fell off the back, took a lot of effort to catch back up, was fun.
Looking forward to Tuesdays race.
Yeh I couldn’t find a course profile that included the lead in but created my own this week!
Warm up is crucial this week. There really is no time to settle on this route.
@cbott welcome, some new competition at the front.
I'm not familiar with this route at all. Am I right in thinking we do the same climb twice, once straight out the gate, and once at the end?
If that's the case then I'm assuming we'll be congregating behind robbo on the climb itself, which will make things interesting I expect.
Yes pretty much that. It's all going to get a bit crazy with the go on an incline.
Some of us heavier units are going to suffer on the start and finish this week, one for the lighter riders to gain an advantage!
That first hill is really going to break everything up and it may take some effort to get into a drafting group once over the top.
I have to hope that all my usual C rivals are big guys too 🤣🤣
Tough to know how to approach this week. Run for time or go for the sprint bonuses.
Yeh we are going to have to form up pretty quick. The first slopes are a low gradient but need everyone to get on the beacon quickly.
Would it be beneficial to get some SPD road shoes and pedals? I'm just using flats and some old 5:10's at the mo.
thoughts are 'maybe' but we're not talking the difference between 200w and putting out 300w.. I'd say a couple, 5w maybe.. if you get the benefits. Personally i didn't find any benefit myself and run flats and FiveTen.
I've only ever used MTB SPD pedals as that's all I have, plus all I'm used to.
I don't think I'd like to try some of the sprints on flats...I'd probably fall off 🤣
To protect my ankle at the moment I’m using 4 season walking boots with flats. Not a good look, strictly no entry policy in operation when on the turbo.
I can barely imagine how sweaty your feet must get "turboing" in those!
I’ve only ever used MTB SPD pedals as that’s all I have, plus all I’m used to.
I don’t think I’d like to try some of the sprints on flats…I’d probably fall off 🤣
Flats and 5:10's is all I am used to, so maybe I'll just keep them as they are. I am probably more limited in sprints by the turbo stability, it does get a side to side rock on.
Nixie did the lead in at a time of 5min 36 with an average power of 386w, which is a massive massive figure. His 3rd climb up was a moderate 364w which gives a time jut over 6 mins for the climb.
Another STWer did 218w which gives a time of 8mins 04... So the differential is pretty much MASSIVE depending on your weight and power.
Doing your homework then weeksy :-). I don’t think I have ever done the climb where I have really attacked it let alone twice so will see how it goes!
Nixie did the lead in at a time of 5min 36 with an average power of 386w
Converting this into W/KG and then checking what average power I'll need to stay with Nixie - answer is 437!!
Good job I can fall back on a handicap.....oh, maybe not!
Looking at those handicaps I reckon I could be within sight of Phil if I don't kill myself (I'm commonly my own worst enemy on these things).15 seconds sounds a tight margin but the hilltop finish will tend to work better for me so long as I can hold onto him on the flat. 100m over 2k isn't exactly a huge climb though and with no really nasty ramps, holding a wheel up there shouldn't be too hard, I'm glad I've got the few seconds on him as I really can't see me dropping Phil on that and staying away.
I can't see me (nor Phil for that matter) finishing within 15 seconds of nixie though based on those numbers weeksy.
If i'm honest with y'all, i'm debating whether i race tomorrow or tow my buddy up and see if we can get him a point or 2... bit of a domestique role so to speak. I'm not the heaviest in the series, but i think in a power/weight and 'form' context i'm arguably the worst climber out there for where i 'should' be .
I can see the sprints being hotly contested a bit further back tomorrow weeksy and off the back of that you might be pleasantly surprised after too many folks bury themselves chasing the sprints because "oh no, hills".
I know for me I'd like to be chasing the sprints but it's a clear choice of going for the finish and trying to hold a few quick wheels all the way or sitting in comfortably with the next bunch and looking for a drag into the sprints.
The most likely outcome mind is I get into a quicker group from the off, and have to work to stay in, try for the sprints but partially cooked and probably on my own so no wheels to pull me through, toast my self for 0 sprint points and get marooned somewhere off the back of the As in front of the faster B group then get swallowed a few hundred m from the line.
Hopefully this week I'll remember to start sprinting earlier. With the in game delay and my wind up time, I'm not going full tilt until near the finish. I think my last lap sprint was my fastest last week as I'd remembered to start earlier.
Does everyone leave the default delay of 4 secs and is there any reason not to set it shorter or to zero?