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You've all seen this...right?
"Simply put: Cory was right! Here are the Road to Ruins lap times for each of our setups:
Zwift Aero with Zipp 808 Wheels: 50:06 (see on Strava)
Cervelo Aspero: 50:33 (see on Strava)
Specialized Epic: 51:30 (see on Strava)"
Seems road is best overall... but of course that doesn't bring in the idea of SWAPPING!!!
"Since we know that the road bike is fastest on pavement, and the MTB is fastest on dirt, we can easily formulate a smart swapping strategy to test. Road to Ruins goes into the Jungle then comes back out onto pavement, so when we hit the Jungle dirt we’ll swap to the MTB, then once the dirt ends, we’ll swap back to the road bike.
Using this strategy, our lap time went from our previous best on the road bike (50:06) to 49:24. A savings of 42 seconds (see it on Strava)!"
I'd be too slow swapping I think!
DrP
yeah I can't really picture it despite having ridden the route a fair few times. Had a quick look on the net though, seems like it might be worth staying on the road bike until AFTER the initial dirt descent & the wooden bit (because the MTB is really slow on those!) and only swapping after the wood, before the dirt climb. And then keeping on the MTB until the end of the dirt section.I may go up and recce it now for where to swap. I’m not sure where each section begins/ends.
yeah, that's we he says it's 40-odd s faster when he swaps!! of course, you have to not balls-up the swap, but that just adds to the excitement!You’ve all seen this…right?
testing today, 135w on spec venge 30kph
135w on mtb 25kph
on tarmac @ 0% incline
@zilog6128 on the Sunday recce oopnorth was flying on the downhill section on MTB. Road bikes had the advantage on wooden section.
It's true, I made up the changeover time pretty quick and caught the group, however on the wooden section I lost 8 to 10 seconds to the road bikes I was with at the time.
Interesting... I was testing it today. You got to get the bike change right. If you time it wrong going to the MTB you lose more than double the time, if you get it right, then it's good.
I think though the biggest factor is pacing and grouping. I dropped 45-5bpm off my HR following a guy who was 3.4w/kg and barely pedalling on the way down the hill, over the bridge and to the bottom, that's a bigger facotr i think. If you can pace with 2-3 riders and get someone else to work, you'll make up the ground instead of grinding on your own.
As I've said before and during yesterday's test run, on the back half of the jungle you really have to push to get the MTB to be beneficial in gaining time and I was still not able to catch Simon in that section. By that time I was blowing as you have to keep the effort down. So that extra effort may become a factor later in the route when you need it, for example the climb back out of the jungle or around the Italian village and volcano.
Using all your energy in the jungle may not be the best options depending on your endurance levels. Pacing may be the better option for some.
afternoon all !
No bike swaps for me, wouldn't know how to start (thought you had to end a ride to swap over)
Can I ride the tronbike ?
Is it very hilly? 🙁
It's flat up, slightly down then slightly up, then down.
The middle section is only 3-4% mostly. But depends how hard you find 3-4% inclines
Tron bikes are fine!
off out for a recce in a minute, check that the bike's working - not that I don't trust you weeksy! 😉
... tell you what, it is mighty scenic out there innit ?!
Not sure if I've done it before but I think I must've turned up the detail on the computer since I did
I reckon changing bike may be faster on a solo ride, but from what I've seen so far in the series, the most important thing is don't get dropped off the group. If you stop to change bike you won't get back on, and you'll absolutely hemorage time.
Case in point Mr dangourbrain last week. Lost a wheel and ended up losing 2 min to me, despite I'll wager him being a stronger rider on the flat than me.
Bike change only worth considering if you get dropped off the back of a group, and even then I reckon it's a 50/50 call.
Case in point Mr dangourbrain last week.
Not sure about the second bit of you're statement but I'll take the compliment 😉.
I averaged 290w I think for the final 3 laps, could have done a bit more but hadn't twigged the folks with me weren't dragging heels avoiding the front so kept backing off a bit to try encourage them forward. Oops. But I digress, there were a few folks in that front group at much lower w but put in 2 mins on me.
Week 1 was the same. I backed off too much on the down hill, lost the group and that was it done. I sat at closing on 300W for the rest of the race and got swallowed by zilog's group about 20min later, 1k from the line. No offence intended to zilog or anyone else in that bunch but none of them would put a few minutes into me normally. The group is king.
Unless you all switch your 42 sec gain will turn into a huge loss as soon as you fall off the group and the reduced aero on the mtb and gravel means you're having to work harder to stay in a group.
I might switch if I'm 30s off the front at the switch point. Otherwise I'd just be switching to drag the group round as they catch while I swap. Otherwise no, power on...
However, there won't be groups, there'll be 3s maybe 4s at best. That hill will shatter any groups as there's no draft. .
If we see a group of 5 after the bridge I'll be astounded
I think that'll depend on the numbers on the start line weeksy and how smart people play it. If there's only 20odd line up it'll split up very quickly but if there's 30odd b/c I think you'll see it hold fairly well and bunch up again over the top.
If I recall the hares and hounds the group stayed well enough to the climb out of the jungle. To be honest, I think that's where the sensible place to push is, get in a bunch and take the benefits of the bunch to there then, when the hill breaks it naturally and the draft isn't worth much, make your push for glory.
So have we decided who is switching and who isnt? I reckon I'm going to set my stall out now and say I'm not. It might work, it probably won't, and the max you'll gain is 30 sec tops. As opposed to how much you'll lose if it doesn't work out itd not worth then gamble.
Unless of course the entire group I'm with switches..then I'd be in alot of bother..
A race pace bike swap using the apple tv remote? Not likely, it's bad enough doing anything with that even if you're not under pressure!
at least it'll look nice, who needs functionality.
Anyone else on a tacx neo? I reckon the road surface simulation will be a disadvantage on this race for sure. Don't think you can switch it off however.
I'm not deciding till i see how things are playing out. I'm inclined to say no at the moment
My challenge is being on the start line, last night I was home from work at 8-15pm. I'm hoping its not the same today cos I really want to do this one!
Hope to see you all later.
It’s a definite no for me. When I’m racing maxed out I can just about think to breathe and drink.
I’m going to try and sit at around 250 watts, I was going to smash the first climb to keep up with a faster group and try and hang on to their coat tails, but the first hill is just too long for a max effort and too early into the race.
if it doesn’t work out it's not worth then gamble.
I'm tempted, partly for the fun of it and also because it's not much of a gamble for me - plans A thru Z haven't led to many points despite my best efforts!!
scaredypants
afternoon all !
No bike swaps for me, wouldn’t know how to start (thought you had to end a ride to swap over)
You can swap bikes once you come to a complete halt on the road - all the other stuff like shoes & jerseys you can swap on the fly.....
No way I'm gonna fiddle about with swapping bikes; I don't think I'd be slick enough at it.
And it seems wrong to switch to a faster bike halfway through a race.
plans A thru Z haven’t led to many points despite my best efforts!!
You sort of were my plan a Phil. I was hoping to get clear of the main bunch with a few but still be with a few folks to group up with for the jungle. No way I'm putting points on the board solo unless everyone ends up on their own.
My record solo effort was just under 53min on a TT bike @ 306W. I've dropped a bit of weight since but even then I can't see me getting below 50min solo. The zwiftpower results google spat out had C race times at 52 to 58 minutes in a very small field. I might make enough on the Cs to cover the handicap if they're at the bottom end of those times but without help I really can't see me making 4 minutes on DrP or 3 on TP
Dr P has to be right at the pointy end of this event doesn't he.. Can't see any work in where he's not top3 at the end.
Hmm.... don't hold your horses....!
I'm feeling "rough in the jungle"!
Sooo full of cold, though it IS the tail end, I'm still not too chipper...
The key will be staying with the front group..
Race 1 i dropped off and don't have enough solo power so was about 3 min back...
2 and 3 worked well as I stayed holding onto the front, and the hill helped... plus I felt strong race 2....
Will see how today goes.. I'll have a recce (just of the route on ZI) to figure out tactics... deffo no bike swap for me as I'm just not feeling I could put lots of w down to get back to speed again...
I think hold the pack for the flat, then prob aim for solo/climber group breakaway once it heads up..
DrP
Dr P has to be right at the pointy end of this event doesn’t he.. Can’t see any work in where he’s not top3 at the end.
Well I did offer his other half some sausage* if she'd jam a stick in his spokes.
*I don't think it's a euphemism but I've really no idea where he keeps those if it isn't.
I think hold the pack for the flat, then prob aim for solo/climber group breakaway once it heads up..
DrP
And that's why you'll be top 3... Race 1 didn't suit you at all... But this one, couldn't be better for your profile as a rider.
I'm still waiting for Richmond flat !
Well I did offer his other half some sausage if she’d jam a stick in his sp9kes
Frozen sausage I hope?
Frozen sausage I hope?
The exact phrase I used was "DrP's Sunday morning sausage", judging from the groan followed by "not again? OK then, but you owe me" I assume his good lady is as familiar with his Sunday hills sustenance as we are.
They defrost after about 12 minutes....
DrP
No need to boast
There is only one climb in the race right?
Two small ones.
No, two. One short and steep. The other longer but not so steep. Same high point though.
Depends how you look at it.
The climb is climb, flat, incline....
then down...flat... then incline.
You could argue 1 climb or 3.... I'm more 3.. But the other 2 are incline grinds.
Remember race to the blue banner – the meetup distance countdown is accurate in this respect – it is just under the level indicator bar. As I have to plug in the distance it may not correspond with the actual banner on the promenade section and may be a couple of hundred miles past it.
Race start – neutralised as before - congregate on the beacon prior to this (I may be behind you based on last week but will accelerate to get to the front)
STW Series Rules/Information
1. This is a handicap race series. The race will be a mass start with the handicap applied to the results at the end of the race. Your handicap can be found at link a few posts back.
2. Any bike is allowed – choose what you think best suits the course. Also wear what kit you want. Traditionally we have worn the bumblebee for Zwift meetups on STW so if you are unsure that would be a good choice.
3. Race starts – as the meetup function is being used we will have a rolling neutralised start. Once the meetup starts I will gently pedal at about 100W. You should adjust your position to congregate on me (I will be very visible with a bright yellow beacon if you haven’t used the meetup function before). As soon as everyone is in a swarm/peloton I will type GO GO GO which will appear across everyone’s screen – then race how you want!
4. Race finish – the race ends when you cross the blue banner. Make sure you race until the blue banner not any other finish lines/sprint line etc on course. Because meetup view is being used this may be a few hundred metres past a sprint line or similar. It is clearly visible on both the map, the distance countdown on the top bar and in view on the screen. Once you finish you will get a results screen displayed. Once this happens you can choose to leave the game, cool down etc. I will stop short of the race finish to remain in the game (my time isn’t counted anyway to any points finish) and provide encouragement and ensure everyone gets across the line (I might just be last anyway!).
5. Results – I will publish the results on the forum within an hour or so of everyone finishing. There will be the overall results. Top 3 from A, B, C and D and then the handicapped results. Points for the series title (and prizes) will be based on the handicapped results. Zwift Cats are based on the cats from Zwift and the FTP and weight you provided me so might not match historical data in ZP etc.
6. Points – points will be awarded for 1st through to 30th so the series will award consistency and hopefully give everyone an opportunity to score results.
7. In game comms – It is a meetup so only messages sent in the race will be seen. I will prob type some messages etc and reminders for encouragement during the race but feel free to join in with any banter, let us know you have fallen of your turbo, the cat has run through the spinning rear wheel and got its tail caught in the chain, you need another frozen sausage etc!!
8. HAVE FUN AND ENJOY YOURSELF!
it may not correspond with the actual banner on the promenade section and may be a couple of hundred miles past it.
Oh, that would be funny. Yay, banner. Boooo 5 more laps to go.
Doh - I meant metres not miles!!! At least it shows someone actually reads it though.
Does anyone use the discord channel for these by the way? I did think last week a bit more coordination in the first half might help some of us shake off the vampires a bit earlier and offset our big handicaps a little.
That or at least Phil can do his PT bit and encourage us when we're falling off.
Doh – I meant metres not miles!!! At least it shows someone actually reads it though.
I was rather looking forward to the "suckered" achievement.