[Closed] Stans ZTR Arch Ex or Flow EX

Arch ex will do you. I'm lighter but use mine for a fair bit of dh. Using 2.35 intense tyres at 20-25 psi

95kg kitted up Orange 5 riding rocky lakes trails, arch ex are fine

Got a lovely set of hope hubbed arch ex rims, they're awesome im 93kgs naked. 8)

Arch EX it is then, thought flows are probably overkill for me..
Thanks for your replies

What tyres are you guys using and any issues? Assuming your running tubeless?

Just get the flows... seriously. theres only a few grams in it and the flows aren't the toughest rims as it is! can't see the Arch's holding up to too many cases.

Im running tubeless and it was very easy to set up with the supplied tape and valve.

Rubber Queen ust 2.2 front and Spesh Purgatory 2.3 2bliss rear, both go on dead easy with a track pump if you leave a tube in overnight when you first get them, then inflate with the valve core removed.

It's true tho actual weight of a Flows is slightly less than advertised and Arch slightly higher. Not massive weight diff between them.

One more thing, they're quite sensitive to spike tension. After you've done about 100niles or do get them
Re tensioned and they'll last you a lot longer

I would also second using the Arch rims. I built up a 29er singlespeed bike up in spring this year with flow rims and I managed to ding the rear rim so badly that I can't run ut tubeless any more. Never happened before after using UST rims for years. I'll be replacing it with an Arch after the winter/when money allows.

I've gone with crests on hopes for similar usage. Xc in the lakes on Scott spark.
So far (1 week) they don't seem to be made of cheese. Time will tell i suspect !
They go well on the climbs 🙂

Am I doomed to a pretzel shaped death?

.

Which out of the arch or flow ex is comparable to XM719's?
My 719 have been bulletproof since 2009, only thing I've noticed is the spoke tension needs some tweaking now..
I don't use any tyres bigger than a 2.25, not sure if that's a factor in choosing between the arch or flow?

I'd read this before deciding on the Flow Ex's 8)

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday--Wider-Rims-Are-Better-and-Why-Tubeless-Tires-Burp-.html

[i]Which out of the arch or flow ex is comparable to XM719's?[/i]

Had 719s myself...fairly XC/Trail rim with a 19mm internal diameter; I replaced mine with 355 rims which had the same internal diameter of 19mm. They have stood up very well but are now discontinued, replaced by the Crest at 21mm. The Arch EX is almost the same as the Crest in dimension terms (Still 21mm) but with an additional internal arch. Flow EX have a 25.5mm internal width. Of the two, Arch EX or Flow EX, I'd get the Arch EX to replace 719

OP - ive been using the older style stans arch and flow for a while. the easiest tyres i have set up tubeless are spesh butcher control. a steal at £60 a pair from freeborn

and non-tubeless maxxis seat ok then explode dramatically on the smallest drop. UST maxxis work well though

Roter Stern - Member
I would also second using the Arch rims. I built up a 29er singlespeed bike up in spring this year with flow rims and I managed to ding the rear rim so badly that I can't run ut tubeless any more. Never happened before after using UST rims for years. I'll be replacing it with an Arch after the winter/when money allows.

but the flow is the tougher of the Flow and the Arch.... so if you dinged a flow you'll destroy an Arch.

[i]but the flow is the tougher of the Flow and the Arch.... so if you dinged a flow you'll destroy an Arch.[/i]

How is the Flow EX tougher? 😕 Its wider but its the same rim profile as the Arch EX

If someone was dinging Arch EX rims, it would be better to look first at tyre choice and air pressures over whether a Flow EX would have prevented them

What about the new mavic 821, should be fairly bulletproof.

but the flow is the tougher of the Flow and the Arch.... so if you dinged a flow you'll destroy an Arch.

How is the Flow EX tougher? Its wider but its the same rim profile as the Arch EX

It's wider, it's deeper and it's thicker where the spokes join. And with the same tyre and pressure it'll be less prone to bottoming out thanks to the better sidewall shape and greater air volume. Otherwise you're quite right! 😛

If you're not battering through rock gardens or casing jumps frequently and worry about weight then get the Arch EX.

Alexdudley,
You've thrown a spanner in the works!
I've only ever used mavic rims, those EN821's look good!
But I'm assuming the 450grams is without the mavic pre nipples? so it will end up being heavier than an arch ex.
I think the pre nipples add another 50-60grams..

For sure, but do you need to add rim strips to the Stan's so might not be too much in it! Thinking of the mavics myself, they look good too with the machining so appeal to the engineer in me. And besides, who wants to do the sheep thing for a couple of grams?

"Anthem x 2009"
If it were me (about the same weight) I'd be deciding between crest or arch EX, just depends if you really want the stiffness. If you're on QR forks for eg I'd be looking at crests

"seriously. theres only a few grams in it"
790-800g/pair or 980g/pair? rotating weight as well, so its hardly just a few grams

Stans Claim the BST2 make the 21mm internal arch EX (and crest) make it equivalent to about 25mm with a standard rim wall

"flows aren't the toughest rims as it is! can't see the Arch's holding up to too many cases"

Going from XM719's to Arch EX's one of the most noticeable things for me is how I've gone from a serial rim dinger and pinchflatter even with DH tubes and 30psi+ on the tall-rim-walled mavic's to virtually never rim dinging on the ArchEX's. The BST2 means its not pinching the tyre the same, so my rim walls are still good where the tougher mavics have had to have the adjustable spanner treatment a good many times

"Which out of the arch or flow ex is comparable to XM719's?"
Neither, I think all stans rims right down to the XC race ones are wider than 719's. Flow and FlowEX are similar weights. Not sure on toughness to rim ding's though

"non-tubeless maxxis seat ok then explode dramatically on the smallest drop"
With the Arch EX with the BST2 they might be awful to seat (compressor job for me) I never had them burp in the alps.

Also a cursory skim-read of that pinkbike article has me thinking their 'theories' (okay I only really looked at the pictures), don't apply the same to Stans, the low rim wall height on a stans mean it doesn't pinch the tyre quite the same as the pinkbike diagrams

"but do you need to add rim strips to the Stan's so might not be too much in it"
Only on older Stans Rims? Flow, Arch, 355 etc
Newer Crest, ArchEX, FlowEX just need tape (lighter than a rim strip for tubes) and a valve

Only problem is I can't buy the EN821 with Pro 2's off the shelf..
Not listed under CRC's custom wheel builder or merlins!
probably going to be more expensive compared to a set of hope hoops..

Hmmm, think they have only recently been released so should filter through soon I guess. When you look at the price of rims they are no more expensive than Stan's so no reason for them to be more built up. Give them a call as might not have updated their website.

Crests will be fine and will suit the Anthem, I weigh 95kgs and ran them on my Turner Flux at trail centres and didn't kill them.

I now run Arch Ex's on my Yeti and 355's on my Tinbred. I also have two further sets of Crests on a 5spot and a Stiffee.

All run with either Hope Pro 2 Evos or with Hope Pro 3's

Crests on an Anthem

Regarding rim "strength":

I'm not convinced that the construction of one rim makes it significantly more resistant to "dings" than another. Sure, some rims have more material in them than others but I doubt the difference is significant once an impact of the necessary magnitude to do damage occurs. Alloys used also vary but again I'm doubtful the differences in compressive strength are significant.

I'd consider that to reduce "rim dinging" you should heed [i]chiefgrooveguru's[/i] advice regarding wider rims:

with the same tyre and pressure it'll be less prone to bottoming out thanks to the [b]better sidewall shape and greater air volume[/b]

Choosing tyres with a decent thickness sidewall, particularly at the area just above the bead should help absorb some of the energy from an impact and also give the best chance of avoiding pinch flatting your tubeless tyre.

Obviously the most important factor in avoiding rim damage is finding the right tyre pressure, which will always be a compromise.

[i]Golddigger[/i] - I'd go with the Flox Ex's on anything but a race bike for the above reasons and to avoid rolling/burping during hard cornering. You sound more XC orientated than I seem to be at the moment which perhaps explains why you're sticking with relatively narrow tyres. If you decide you want to bias your bike a little more towards

bombing it downhill

Disclaimer - I have been drinking.

Winch..
I think 2.25 is about the limit in my anthem..
here's some pics of the clearance I have with X King Protection 2.2, which come up smaller than nobby nic 2.25's

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[i]It's wider, it's deeper and it's thicker where the spokes join. And with the same tyre and pressure it'll be less prone to bottoming out thanks to the better sidewall shape and greater air volume. Otherwise you're quite right! [/i]

Yep, got it's wider, deeper/thicker fair enough but irrelevant to the rim being 'tougher' when it comes to dings. Where you get the dings, on the bead socket on the rim, there is no difference between the two rims bead sockets...so the Flow EX is not 'tougher', maybe less prone to dings because of the extra width but, tyre choice and pressure, come in to that as well.

All I was going off really is the fact that Stan recommends the flow ex for DH and the Arch he doesn't...

"Stan recommends the flow ex for DH and the Arch he doesn't... "
However:
"I have a Anthem x 2009"
Which is the other end of the giant spectrum of full sus bikes to a DH bike?

crest or arch

I think the thread has gone a bit off topic, and a bit strange.

Bringing it back to the OP's question, which is 'What rim for my Anthem, when I ride XC, and some trail centers'.

The simple answer, if you asked Stan himself would be the Crest.

I ride pretty technical stuff in Scotland and use a Crest on the front and an Arch EX on the rear. I only changed the crest because I mis-timed hopping a drainage ditch, and a normal knee-jerk reaction was to go for the stronger rim, I doubt the Arch would have survived either.

As long as you run the right pressures, you're unlikely to have any issues running Crests for all trail centers in the UK - Laggan and the Ben Nevis DH would be perfectly fine.

If you're going to destroy a Crest, you're going to destroy an Arch.

They're wide, so the tyre profile is great, rolling weight can never be underestimated in how much it affects a bike's feel. Something like an Anthem is meant to be built light, so it floats over stuff, rather than plowing through it, a Flow to me, is going against that logic - it's an XC bike, not an enduro/AM/trail bike.

This thread is mental. It's an Anthem X, it's going to get a 2.25 XC tyre on it, and people are saying things like "Arch won't stand up to many cases" 821s FFS!

rickon said it all. This is the job Crests are for. Or if you're a serial rim-dinger perhaps an 819, they're heavy and skinny and generally showing their age but they're tough as old boots. Though it'd be better to just pump up your tyres.

Northwind
How many people ride bikes in conditions that are not what their bike was initially designed for? My anthem is my first full suss bike..if I had the choice of buying it now, I'd go with a trance.
If money were no object I'd have a different bike for the different trails I ride. One thing I do believe is that flows aren't really at home on my anthem..but I don't agree crests are the rim for the job here.

The reason why I don't think crests are the answer is I'm 95kg naked and not the smoothest graceful rider.
Some of the hits I've encountered on my anthem I don't know how the 719's haven't buckled..

Don't 821's weigh the same as 819's?

Personally I think the arch EX is the best bet for me..

"non-tubeless maxxis seat ok then explode dramatically on the smallest drop"
With the Arch EX with the BST2 they might be awful to seat (compressor job for me) I never had them burp in the alps.

"but do you need to add rim strips to the Stan's so might not be too much in it"
Only on older Stans Rims? Flow, Arch, 355 etc
Newer Crest, ArchEX, FlowEX just need tape (lighter than a rim strip for tubes) and a valve

719's go with just yellow tape too (just for some balance)

lol... oops did the OP do a sneaky edit to include the Anthem? 😉 Classic case of reading the words I wanted to I reckon. ignore me and carry on 🙂

[i]The reason why I don't think crests are the answer is I'm 95kg naked and not the smoothest graceful rider.[/i]

Exactly...and you said it in your first post and that's why I didn't suggest Crest. Arch EX all the way 😀

I have a set of both Flow and Arch EX, both running Maxxis Ardent 2.4 tyres - ride both fairly hard and I have had no problems with either so far, I am sure that Arch EX are fine for all-around use.

Nuke, you and others have hit the nail on the head..Arch EX it is..thanks for the help guys.. 🙂

Is there a reason why the hope pro 2 evo SP only come in black? Black isn't bling 🙁

flow ex are overkill on a anthem, if you have an anthem with flow ex's on you have the wrong bike!

at a push arch ex, but if you relatively light weight and the bikes being used for what its designed for, then crests all the way

Goldigger - Member

The reason why I don't think crests are the answer is I'm 95kg naked and not the smoothest graceful rider.
Some of the hits I've encountered on my anthem I don't know how the 719's haven't buckled..

But, they haven't, which is the important thing. Most folks underestimate the strength of wheels, or think that because they dinged them on a rock the whole wheel's likely to fail. The crest isn't the strongest rim in the world but it's no shrinking violet either.

Bikes are just the sum of their parts, Anthems are brilliant but your choice of tyres says as much too, if you fit really burly wheels you'll just be making something else a weaker link.

IMO of course 😉

Oh, 821 weights- we need to see what they actually weigh as Mavic claimed weights can't be trusted, the published weights don't include the ferrule things required to build the wheel. But if they don't weigh more than the 819 I'll be amazed.

Can I get a muddy Mary 2.3 on arch EX? Or is it a bit to large in profile to avoid burping running tubeless?
Secondly is a 2.3 to large to run on my anthem? Nobby nic 2.25 fit, but some tyres come up smaller/larger than others..

http://r2-bike.com/schwalbe-muddy-mary-26-x-235-fr-2a

Riding a Yeti ASR5C around the Highlands largely, odd trip to visit the parents in the Lakes, 2 sets of wheels. 1 built a bit lighter with Crests & lighter tyres (Nobby Nic front, Ralph on the back) with less substance in the sidewalls (i.e. not UST) for XC biased riding - did TransWales '11 on them fine. 1 built a bit more robustly for trail riding, Arch EX with Maxxis UST tyres front and rear to give some more protection to the rim wall.

I've destroyed a Crest on the back by smashing it in to a slate water bar and a Crest on the front by landing a BMX table top jump purely on the front wheel from about 6 feet up (that also smashed me up...). These are the ones that are now rebuilt on Arch EX - same as Rickon, bit of a knee jerk reaction probably.

I'm c80kg fully loaded but as others have said it's about the tyre and pressure choice as much as, if not more than, anything. If you're a bit heavier and don't ride so light you might still get away with Crests but choose your tyres carefully.

Can I get a muddy Mary 2.3 on arch EX? Or is it a bit to large in profile to avoid burping running tubeless?

Currently have a Minion 2.5 29er on my Crest rim which is the same internal width as the Arch EX. Thats a big friggin tyre so I'm sure a 2.3 Muddy Mary would be ok. I normally run 2.25 Smorgasbord on my Crests and they work very well.

Northwind - Member

Oh, 821 weights- we need to see what they actually weigh as Mavic claimed weights can't be trusted, the published weights don't include the ferrule things required to build the wheel. But if they don't weigh more than the 819 I'll be amazed.

Claimed weight of 450g - 511 with the inserts. So probably an extra 60g. Ouch.

[img] [/img]

Got my hope hoops Monday..Haven't put them on my Anthem yet as I'm waiting for some new tyres to run tubeless on them (conti MK2 Protection Black Chilli)

I've put the stans yellow tape on the rim's, had to have a play. So I mounted an unused Racing Ralph Evo Double Defence TL ready, that I meant to use during the summer.
Got it to go up no problem, didn't use sealant as I wont be keeping them on. 🙂
Also put new RT86 rotors and an XT cassette on.
[img] [/img]

You just need to remove the god awful stickers off the rims and you're on!

Yeah I think your right..

..

And swap them for these blue one's so they match my bike 😀

[IMG] ?1361399029[/img]

This is an old pic..it now has SID RCT3 dual air, XT M785 brakes, RT86 Rotors and Time Atac XS Carbon pedals
[img] [/img]