[Closed] SRAM XX1 Eagle shifter issue (head scratcher)

Which Torx? The one on the middle (silver) or the one in the wedge (black)?

This is important. The black one is for adjusting the lever angle, the silver one is the self-destruct.

Edit.
The eagle xx1 shifter is very different to the 11 speed xx1. The eagle xx1 internally looks more like the 11 speed x01.

Try the E13 YouTube. This shows how to fit their 12 speed kit and might help.

The black one in the wedge.

At this stage, I'm almost certain that the issue isn't internal.

If I take all the tension off the cable, I can twist by have (the part with the silver screen) and the shifter seems to work, put the lever back on and you might get two or three clicks from the shifter before the lever gives way again. With the cable fitted to the mech, the lever won't budge the shifter at all..

Tried a new inner? Could be a cable issue.

I was going to say change your inner and outer cables and check there's nothing pinching it anywhere.

To rule out shifter issues,
Remove inner from the outer but leave it connected/threaded through the shifter.
Hold inner in left hand and pull to apply tension
Operate shifter as normal
You should feel the inner getting pulled/released depending on which lever you're operating.
If its all working as it should be, move the adjustable lever to where you want it and repeat the above
If its still OK change inners and outers

The 2nd shifter I bought had a new inner but the same happened.

I've not changed the outer so I'll give that a go tomorrow.

I'd have thought though that if the outer was 'pinching' the inner or otherwise restricting it's movement to this degree, I'd have had trouble pushing the inner through the outer.

I have tried operating the second, newest shifter whilst applying tension by had (just the cable, no outer) and it worked fine. Refitted the shifter and back to square one.

Cable getting trapped by a suspension pinch point maybe. Could also be the derailleur getting caught.

Like a lot of these threads, there's a lot of guess work and speculation without being able to see it, but sounds like you've eliminated the shifter as the source of the fault.

I have tried operating the second, newest shifter whilst applying tension by had (just the cable, no outer) and it worked fine. Refitted the shifter and back to square one.

Certainly reads like its the outer then, but as tthew says - Like a lot of these threads, there’s a lot of guess work and speculation without being able to see it, but sounds like you’ve eliminated the shifter as the source of the fault.

Yeah, it is difficult for people to help without having the bike in front of them.

I was kinda hoping that somebody had the same issue and could offer advice as to how they solved it...

As the bike is a hardtail, there are no suspension gubbins that could cause a problem.

The mech itself is set up how SRAM say it should be set up (chain gap, limit screws etc) and seems to have free movement.

The outer cable (which some have identified as a potential cause) was brand new when fitted and has no kinks, severe bends or anything like that but, I'll change it anyway for elimination purposes..

One thing I did think about was the chain!? Maybe I have cut it too short?

After buying 2 XX1 shifters and a pull lever, the last thing I want to do is replace the chain (also XX1) which wasn't cheap. And, I can't seem to find any 'cheap' 12 speed chains in stock anywhere to buy and try..

New or 2nd hand?

Everything was new.

I had similar issues recently when I upgraded to a larger cassette. It may be frame / hanger-specific but there seemed to be two B-screw positions (screwed in and screwed out) where the gap was about right. I'd adjusted the B-screw in the wrong direction (screwed too far in).. backed it right off and now it works fine.

I did think about the B screw but this was adjusted to SRAMs recommendation using the SRAM chain gap tool (chain gap adjusted via B screw).

I've since rechecked the B screw/chain gap without the chain gap tool but keeping to the 3mm (If I remember correctly) gap between largest sprocket and top mech pulley.

When the shifters were working (before the lever issue began) the gears were working beautifully. The gear changes were silky smooth and almost silent. No grinding or anything like that.

you're sure you've routed the inner cable properly? Both through the shifter and the mech?

To the best of my knowledge, yes.

The shifters both came with the cable pre installed.

At the mech end, I routed the cable in what looked like the obvious way. By that I mean that the way the mech is designed, it kinda makes it hard to route the cable in a wrong way.

On the mech, the cable goes over the plastic when, where it exits this wheel, there's a short bit of exposed cable before it goes through a plastic guide which takes it straight to the clamp.

Does anybody think that maybe the chain could cause the problem?

If I've cut the chain too short, could it possibly put too much strain on the shifter during up changes?

Sorry I'm late top this party and mostly with questions....

All was well and good for about 15 miles and then the lever just started swinging around. It wouldn’t shift the gears at all, up or down.

So you can/could shift fine, then shifting fails.

Is it in all gears or only "mid" block?

Push the up [block] lever, no gear change, click the release no change.
Does the shifter click through the detents at this point but no movement at the sprocket?

If you push the lever to shift up the block multiple times does it tighten up but still no movement? Does the release stop clicking after one or two releases?

When you've tried to shift but no movement, if you look at the mech is it still in line or clearly pulling the chain up/down the sprocket but failing to move?

If you click the release button does the cable go slack at the exit from the outer on the mech (you should be able to see/feel a bit of slack if you very gently pull the cable) or does it require actually pulling through?

Do you leave the gears in the smallest sprocket when you put it away?

What cassette and how old?

What state are your jockey wheels in? Sram ones die at the bearings unlike shimano ones that wear into sharp pointy things or complete circles. If you're coming from shimano and looking at the teeth expecting them to do this don't.

FWIW I don't think it's likely to be your chain length. That's maybe not as good an answer as you wanted/think.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll try to answer the questions as best I can. As soon as I can (and figure out how) I'll post a video which will show the issue easier than I can describe it.

So you can/could shift fine, then shifting fails.

In a word, yes. Shifting does fail but not completely. I can still change down the cassette but not back up.

Is it in all gears or only “mid” block?

The first time was around the top (10th to 11th maybe) of the cassette, the second was toward the top (11th to 12th)

Push the up [block] lever, no gear change, click the release no change.
Does the shifter click through the detents at this point but no movement at the sprocket?

I can't change up as the lever just spins, the part that the lever clamps to doesn't move.
If I remove the up lever and turn the part it clamps to by hand, it clicks through the derents.
The release works fine, clicks through detents and changes gear fine.

When you’ve tried to shift but no movement, if you look at the mech is it still in line or clearly pulling the chain up/down the sprocket but failing to move?

The mech looks perfectly fine but doesn't move at all when shifting up the cassette bue to the lever just spinning.

If you click the release button does the cable go slack at the exit from the outer on the mech (you should be able to see/feel a bit of slack if you very gently pull the cable) or does it require actually pulling through?

If I click the release there is a touch of slack cable. It doesn't require pulling through.

Do you leave the gears in the smallest sprocket when you put it away?

It's usually stored mid cassette

What cassette and how old?

SRAM XX1 (500%) brand new when fitted now around 60 miles old

What state are your jockey wheels in? Sram ones die at the bearings unlike shimano ones that wear into sharp pointy things or complete circles. If you’re coming from shimano and looking at the teeth expecting them to do this don’t.

Brand new mech when fitted now around 60 miles old and showing no signs of wear and bearings feel good and free running.

For what it's worth, I personally think that the mech, cassette, cable, outer cable are all fine. With the pull lever (lever to shift up the cassette) being adjustable, it is held in place by a small screw rather than being a 'solid unit' if that makes sense!? Whatever it is that clamps the lever to the actual shifter doesn't appear to be strong enough to cope with the tension it is required to handle when shifting up and just gives way. With having the same issue with two brand new shifters (one of which I didn't adjust the lever position so was straight from SRAM to my bike, the lever was not touched at all) there must be something I've done wrong in building the bike!?

It sounds like something to do purely with the downshift lever that has the adjustable throw on it. Everything else suggests the drivetrain and routing is fine - and it shifts up (to a harder gear) just not down. Sounds like the lever is flapping about and not engaging with the internals of the shifter from what you’ve said. Would seem odd for this to happen once, let alone twice. Might be time to try taking it to a bike shop and see if they can fix it for you.....

This sums it up perfectly. Thanks for that.

It sounds like something to do purely with the downshift lever that has the adjustable throw on it. Everything else suggests the drivetrain and routing is fine – and it shifts up (to a harder gear) just not down. Sounds like the lever is flapping about and not engaging with the internals of the shifter from what you’ve said. Would seem odd for this to happen once, let alone twice.

I tend to make things sound more complicated than they are with rambling on.

Agree with Joe on this, if you can turn the base by hand without the lever and it shifts fine it definitely a lever interface thing.

That said it shouldn't need that much heft to shift it (I'm guessing the base of the lever isn't overly difficult to rotate based on the fact you can do it by hand).