[Closed] Speaker cable

ton - Member
one of my customers, who spends 120k a year doing home cinema stuff, has just finished reading this thread.
he say's he cannot believe the folk are so * gullible!
and that folk can spout so much shyte......

Your customer sounds like a *

ransos - doesn't bother me in the slightest.

ransos - doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Evidence that something works? That's already apparent.

In which case, homeopathic remedies would be more successful at making people better than placebos...

it is not the remedies, it is the fact they are being looked after - that is why I reworded your statement.

In Bad Science the author discusses cases where patients with knee problems have been given a 'placebo' knee op and then shown improvement. Another example was some patients with pacemakers fitted but no batteries inserted, still showed improvement. Both compared to control groups.

And that you keep the marker pen in the freezer.

[img] [/img]

🙂

Your customer sounds like a ****

mate, every last single one of em............. 😀

I love cable post on here, is this the 3rd or 4th time we have had this come up on STW?

How long before we get 'I used to work for some expensive audio speaker manufacturer'

Then this post will be complete 😉

I love cable post on here, is this the 3rd or 4th time we have had this come up on STW?

and the rest.

as with any tech, the law of diminishing returns is pretty strong...

Really the fatuousness of some of the arguments on here is astounding. People making sweepingly dismissive statements about other peoples' experiences on what they can hear; reports that are very consistent about the quality of cable making a difference and yet people still decide to ignore the weight of that evidence because it doesn't fit with their view of how things should be? That's daft!

You've got that almost exactly the wrong way round. The fact is that individual people's experiences are extremely subjective, and confirmation bias is a massive factor. Ransos is quite right - where is the evidence?

From Wikipedia:

In one experiment conducted by a customer, audiophile listeners could not distinguish between short Monster cables and ordinary coat hangers.[10] Another reviewer concluded that "16-gauge lamp cord and Monster [speaker] cable are indistinguishable from each other with music."[11]

Monster has even produced cables where their advertised premium features cannot even affect the cable quality. These items include gold-plated optical cables, where the plating has literally no use in the proper function of the cable.

it is not the remedies, it is the fact they are being looked after - that is why I reworded your statement.

In Bad Science the author discusses cases where patients with knee problems have been given a 'placebo' knee op and then shown improvement. Another example was some patients with pacemakers fitted but no batteries inserted, still showed improvement. Both compared to control groups.

I don't think I understand your point. I was talking about where people are told they are being given a placebo, yet still report a better improvement than would be expected by chance. That sounded(!) analogous to your example of making a cable change you expected to not work, yet thinking that it did.

ransos - Member
Well, of course, and also assumes that you've coloured the left +ve cable covering in green marker pen.
And that you keep the marker pen in the freezer.

What's the best way to burn-in the marker pen? The stage and depth is okay but it just lacks warmth.

What's the best way to burn-in the marker pen? The stage and depth is okay but it just lacks warmth.

Cover two pens in blankets and have them duel overnight. It really improvements instrument separation and stereo imaging.

ransos - Member

ransos - doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Evidence that something works? That's already apparent.

What evidence have you provided?

What evidence have you provided?

That it doesn't work? I refer you to Russell's teapot.

How long before we get 'I used to work for some expensive audio speaker manufacturer'

Then this post will be complete

Mission.

This entire thread is pointless when the majority of you will be using your expensive hifi to listen to absolutely appalling quality mp3s.

ransos, your "being hilarous" kind of undermines your credibility.

But I'm sure you're not bothered in the slightest.

YOU WIN!

ransos, your "being hilarous" kind of undermines your credibility.

I've no doubt you believe that to be true. But then you believe all sorts of things, some more credible than others.

Ransos, IIRC geetee1972 runs a Naim amp so would be ineligible for Randi's tests.

How long before we get 'I used to work for some expensive audio speaker manufacturer'

Then this post will be complete

I used to work for some expensive audio speaker manufacturer. Actually, I still do. Is this post complete or not?

RichP, you're Sarum based, IIRC. ❓

💡

So want do you think of the cable I bought then
Any good 🙁

It'll be fine. Don't worry so much, dig out a favourite album and enjoy 🙂

Well it's not specifically speaker cable (not at all actually), but when I bought my Cyrus amp and CD the shop were using an £80 interconnect. Having chosen the boxes I listened to the interconnects - £40, £80 , £120 and £300. I'd already heard the £80, so I thought I'd listen to the £40. Great I thought it sounds the same. But I listened to the other two as well. The £300 was the worst of the lot in my opinion, but the £120 was the best.

To my ears, on that day, with that CD in that room.

But I like it.

I used to work for some expensive audio speaker manufacturer too.

bingo, or should it be house 😉

If there were any solid independent double blind studies that proved a difference between standard quality and uber high quality cables I'm sure it would be to the forefront of any manufacturer advertising. It's not because there aren't any. For me case closed.

I suppose that it's like wine maybe..?

Frinstance..

Even at the most basic level, you'll get some meat head that swears their kenwood car stereo is the dogs danglies but wouldn't appreciate the complex and subtle nuances that mark the difference between valve and sold state amplifiers.. and you'll get some lambrini swilling piglet that wouldn't understand the differences between a white zinfandel and a cote de rhone..

I'm not saying it's a snob thing.. just something that you can learn to understand and appreciate if you choose to do so..
In the same way that there can be no definitive test on wine quality, so too with sound

it's a connoisseur ting innit..

Wonderful.

These threads are like poetry, like the ebb and flow of life itself.

4 pages and apart from ransos making sense, the most obvious thing is the way everyone goes on about the equipment....

....not the actual music.

Hilarious.

ton - Member
Your customer sounds like a ****
mate, every last single one of em.............

😆 No rule saying you have to like them tho eh...

MrSmith - Member
'Richer Sounds' has always been a good place to shop.
So is Halfords.

I would go to either if I was looking for a bike or audio equipment.

You'd go to Richer Sounds looking for bike equipment...They don't sell straight-jackets (or bike equipment).

the majority of you will be using your expensive hifi to listen to absolutely appalling quality mp3s.

hmanchester -
Member
If there were any solid independent double blind studies that proved a difference between standard quality and uber high quality cables I'm sure it would be to the forefront of any manufacturer advertising. It's not because there aren't any. For me case closed.

Case open, surely.

holy craparel. four pages on speaker cabling 🙄

yes, kit above bog standard is generally an improvement on the cheapest and the more you spend the better it gets with diminishing returns, but...

whether it's bikes or hifi, it's not about what you ride or what you listen on it's about where you ride, what you listen to and how it make you [i]feel[/i].

[i]Where are those that disprove it?

Case open, surely.[/i]
😆

CDs and MP3s?
Well with some stuff no difference, but with Bits of Metallica or Jesus and Mary Chain the CD is spectacularly better.

Where are those that disprove it?
Case open, surely.

We've been through this.

Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

And anyway, there are ABX double blind tests where no-one could tell the difference, even amongst people who consider themselves audiophiles. I have posted them before but CBA finding them again.

Well with some stuff no difference, but with Bits of Metallica or Jesus and Mary Chain the CD is spectacularly better.

Again there is a (rather unscientific admittedly) blind test I saw where they had top producers and sound engineers listening to various compression formats and the originals - they couldn't tell any difference. A low bit rate MP3 is pretty obvious, but I seriously doubt anyone hear could consistently identify a 320 KBPS MP3 vs the CD in an ABX test.

crikey - Member
Wonderful.

These threads are like poetry, like the ebb and flow of life itself.

4 pages and apart from ransos making sense, the most obvious thing is the way everyone goes on about the equipment....

[b]....not the actual music.[/b]

Hilarious.

RichPenny - Member
It'll be fine. Don't worry so much, dig out a favourite album and enjoy

Ahem 😉

It'll be fine. Don't worry so much, dig out a favourite album and enjoy

Best advice in the thread.

Apologies, and to emphasise the point; it's about the music, not the equipment...

..it's like having sex and arguing about the curtains...

I seriously doubt anyone hear could consistently identify a 320 KBPS MP3 vs the CD in an ABX test.

But how many people have their mp3s at 320? itunes is 128 I think. A lot of people listen to music on youtube too, which is a bit nuts.

People listening to anything off an ipod at 128 are wasting their money on any decent hardware.

mickyfinn, are you 'the' micky finn?

But how many people have their mp3s at 320?

I do, mostly, or at a slightly lower VBR setting - iTunes is 128 AAC by default I think but you can change it.

[quote=bigjim ]
But how many people have their mp3s at 320?
Raises hand.

grum - you've assumed that your position is the established one. Quite a few here, and the existence of an entire industry, suggest otherwise.

Oh and crikey, you missed out "you sad losers should just get out and ride!" - that's the "pointless statement top trumps".

I've probably not been paying attention, but one thing I found that does make a difference - using screened cable. Are any of these posh cables screened, with proper connectors?

That's what would make a difference, not one-way copper or whatever.

Quite a few here, and the existence of an entire industry, suggest otherwise.

There's an established industry in dreamcatchers, holy water, wrist magnets and crystals on string - all an established industry proves is that there are suckers out there who will buy something 🙂