(You're right though, it is a fine and difficult line.)
. Neither Drac or Cougar wanted to be “stealth mods”
I was not referring in anyway to whether they were stealth or not. I was referring to the almost impossible task of walking the line between moderator and poster of opinions. Some have pointed to a part about users ripping off the site and and tangenital STFU. Form a user that means one thing from a mod something entirely different. It really is a ferociously difficult task.
Form a user that means one thing from a mod something entirely different. It really is a ferociously difficult task.
It really doesn’t.
But it really is.
Fact.
'kin bollocks 😕 if yes gonna change things just let us know
last week it was post the link onto the page this week it's not.
FFS!
For clarity, once more with feeling.
The opinions I express, the words coming out of my fingers, are my own. I do not and indeed cannot speak in an official capacity on behalf of STW.
I strive to bridge the gap between the site owners and the site users, it's something I feel strongly about and it's why I agreed to this gig in the first place.
Occasionally, I get frustrated at the relentless gorram negativity from certain quarters. Doubly so as a very small number of users seem to get their rocks off by baiting the moderation team and take every opportunity to have a pop regardless of what we say or do. I'm terribly sorry for being human but my patience (and tolerance for bullshit) is finite.
‘kin bollocks 😕 if yes gonna change things just let us know
Read my post in the "our forum" sticky.
Beyond that, I don't have a scooby what you're on about.
It really doesn’t.
Sure it does. If a non mod runs around telling people they are banned it means nothing. If a mod does it means something. If a poster is being a dick to others it is a guy being a dick. If a mod is being a dick it reflects on the site because they are a representive of the site. It may also lead to presumptions of bias. If a poster uses STFU in a post it gets ignored. If a mod makes even a tangential reference it becomes a bone of contention. There is nothing you can do about it, it comes with the territory. Ask a copper, referee etc.
But it really is
Yep.
I'll try and remember to read the infrequent updates. still doesn't help but thanks
My thoughts on the new classifieds are that I am torn between both.
Part of me thinks more local decisions and less centralised is a Good Thing.
But part of me thinks it is working OK, and would it rock the boat lots to leave?
RM.
I strive to bridge the gap between the site owners and the site users, it’s something I feel strongly about and it’s why I agreed to this gig in the first place.
And with all due respect maybe time to let them stand on their own feet here. You don't own the code, can't change it and don't own the direction it's going. It's not yours to fix or defend.
Sure it does. If a non mod runs around telling people they are banned it means nothing. If a mod does it means something.
If you’re banned you generally get an email.
If a poster uses STFU in a post it gets ignored. If a mod makes even a tangential reference it becomes a bone of contention. There is nothing you can do about it, it comes with the territory. Ask a copper, referee etc.
No, if it’s reported it will be looked in to. Yes sometimes some people jump on ‘Oh you’re a mod you can’t say that’. I kind of see where you’re coming from but it’s a very tiny handful times it’s truly relevant.
Bruneep not a clue what you are on about.
those of us that have
Test, please ignore.
Edit:
Quote is working much better for me too. Only problem being that the "copy paste" etc dialogue partially covers up the quote, bold options etc, requiring a bit of nifty screen clicking before the options are covered.
That said, could well be a feature of chrome more than the forum?
Mobile or desktop?
Quote is working much better for me too. Only problem being that the “copy paste” etc dialogue partially covers up the quote, bold options etc, requiring a bit of nifty screen clicking before the options are covered.
still not able to put the name in easily tho
Poopscoop
Subscriber
those of us that have
Test, please ignore.
Edit:
Quote is working much better for me too. Only problem being that the “copy paste” etc dialogue partially covers up the quote, bold options etc, requiring a bit of nifty screen clicking before the options are covered.That said, could well be a feature of chrome more than the forum?
I trust the opinions of both 'out' mods, they seem like decent guys to me, I have been moderated in the past and could see it was fair under the forum use rules. #
Any moderators on any internet discussion group/forum only get jobs if the bosses trust their judgement and like what they do, the mods personal manner, opinions and judgement is inherent in their role on here, they're trusted to do a good job.
I think the mods are partly expected to review every thread/post on here to check against the rules, who'd want to do all that? all day? for free?
They help with the issues and then have to come on and defend their position on a forum thread. I hate the way some people take online discourse so seriously, it's not important, nothing on here is.. just don't bother ...tadpoles arguing in a tiny pond in a tiny corner of the www.
Cougar
Subscriber
Mobile or desktop?
Sorry, mobile, android. In mobile view, not desktop view.
some people take online discourse so seriously, it’s not important, nothing on here is.. just don’t bother …tadpoles arguing in a tiny pond in a tiny corner of the www.
So seriously infact that they choose to put "moderators" in place to control the discusion and stop grown adults using adult language while partaking in said online discourse.
Baffles me too.
This place used to self-moderate itself nicely back in the early days when you could post without even submitting log-in details.
I must say, despite the fact I'm as happy to have a moan as anyone else Cougar and Drac are complete pussycats compared to some mods. If anyone was on DW back in the day you knew when the hammer was about to swing.
Playing with No Script and slowly turning things on has restored functionality, when I hit the one that's screwing everything up I'll email tech.
So seriously infact that they choose to put “moderators” in place to control the discusion and stop grown adults using adult language while partaking in said online discourse.
Grown adults of course know to control their language when necessary, some need reminding.
This place used to self-moderate itself nicely back in the early days when you could post without even submitting log-in details.
It’s always had moderators. I received a warning many moons ago.
£1.99 a month and help fund it. I’m probably in the poorest percentile on this forum, struggle some months and even I can afford a sub. It’s still a great place and worth supporting.
That's up to you. Having been on the receiving end of what Mark thinks customer care is, I vowed never to give this site another penny.
And if I get banned, I won't get an email, coz I can only log in on one computer and can't change the contact mail. I have mailed about this and got nothing back.
And this one computer is locked by the administrator as far as browser settings are concerned, so adblock or not is not within my control.
To be a bit more responsible I set up a new account and abandoned this one, but that was locked for 99 years for 'having two accounts'.
This is probably in the T&C's I didn't really agree to when I signed up getting on for 15 years ago; they have evolved since then and no doubt so has my assumed consent.
But hey, at least my privacy is valued. All the time.
And I've typed this with many warnings kicking off that it's trying to redirect.
See, that's the thing. People aren't really using adblockers to block the ads. We all know about ads/revenue etc. I whitelisted Bikeradar after they blocked anyone with an adblocker because I wanted to read their articles and reviews.
People are using adblockers to stop redirects, scripts grinding things to a halt, porn pop ups etc. If they didn't happen then more people would whitelist. However, the people who run the website either don't know how to fix them, don't believe they happen or say that it's a user issue. So that's why people's adblockers stay on. It's not because they are "freeloading", it's because they negate an inherent flaw in the site.
Surely it would make more sense to fix the problem with these scripts and redirects and calm the friction between the users and the website. And that has to come from the tech side as users don't have any agency over it other than using the blunt tool of an adblocker.
And if I get banned, I won’t get an email, coz I can only log in on one computer and can’t change the contact mail. I have mailed about this and got nothing back.
Please send an email again with your preferred email address. If you can also give some details so we can identify you then tech will look into it.
Your second account was banned as both were very active at the same time.
Bit of both Yourguitar not everyone use them to stop the pop ups.
Your second account was banned as both were very active at the same time
Still no email, though.
Don’t be melodramatic. I’m not alienating the entire userbase. Just the very small minority who are taking the piss.If someone doesn’t subscribe, actively blocks the advertising which would otherwise pay for the site in lieu of a subscription (and boasts about it continually), and then has the sheer brass neck to sit there complaining about how things aren’t good enough, then, well. Whilst one may rightfully argue that they’re still contributing to the site by deeming us worthy enough to grace us with their orsum presence occasionally, I would respectfully suggest that their net contribution is in deficit.
You know, I might go to the pub tonight. I’ll help myself to a couple of pints behind the bar, tell everyone else that they can do the same, tell the owners that I think the pub is shit because I don’t like the wallpaper, tell the bar staff that they have a bad attitude, get all pissy when I discover that lottery prizes are only available to people who have bought lottery tickets, and then expect everyone around me to be grateful that I’m in there at all providing a service in offering my pearls of wisdom and attracting a crowd. Then six months later I’ll probably be all shocked and surprised when the pub’s closed down.
TL;DR: If someone is going to freeload, they could at least have the common decency and humility to STFU about it. They rip off the site – and make no mistake, that’s exactly what they’re doing – then they waive the right to complain about it. Sorry.
I'm not being melodramatic. I've been a user for many years - on the old site, the new site, the new new site. I've bought the mag, I may even have subscribed in the past, I've contributed to the forum (notwithstanding the limited value of that contribution), I've clicked through ads, I've bought stuff from the site and the classifieds and so forth.
I thought part of what made STW so successful was the breadth and depth of contribution from its members, whether they pay or not. Funnily enough, members haven't sought to charge STW for the "benefit" of their "wisdom".
I fully appreciate that there is a business to support and I don't think I have been complaining overly about it, but when a representative of the business starts referring to users as 'freeloaders' it becomes clear that whatever community spirit used to exist is now subsumed in the desire to monetise that community.
Of course, I'm sure you don't care about individual users coming and going, but if it reaches a point that casual users are viewed as mere inconveniences, I'm sure they'll head elsewhere.
Just my 2p's worth - feel free to bank that.
Still no email, though.
Like I said please email tech@ again with some details to identify your account, they won't change anything unless you verify your account.
How very patronising of you drac. Do you also go around reminding adults of their language and halting their conversation in other entirely adult settings outwith the internet too?
I didn't say there weren't moderators back in the no log in required days. I said it used to self moderate itself nicely.
@Jakester I'm not a "representative of the business." Any money that STW may or may not make is of no concern of mine, simply put I'd kinda like the place to stay in business as I quite like it here.
Do you also go around reminding adults of their language and halting their conversation in other entirely adult settings outwith the internet too?
This isn't an entirely adult setting.
Most people who own websites with public forums want them to be welcoming to a diverse audience and appropriate to all ages.
Another thought about adblockers - at work they are blocked but I still get the ones on the RHS of the screen so something is getting through. Truth be told I'm fine with them and tbh the fixed ads in the topic aren't a particular concern either.
Scripts though, I was slowly turning scripts on but they are like a friggin hydra; allow one and another dozen get blocked. I'm wondering if that is part of the root cause, with so many scripts working at once is there a chance they are conflicting and no one script is to blame? I'll persevere but tbh I'm wondering just how worthwhile it is with so many.
How very patronising of you drac. Do you also go around reminding adults of their language and halting their conversation in other entirely adult settings outwith the internet too?
I didn’t say there weren’t moderators back in the no log in required days. I said it used to self moderate itself nicely.
This isn't an entirely adult setting, it's not just you and your mates having a laugh. To answer your question, yes I would and have when it's been inappropriate for such language. My language is very colourful between friends but like most grown ups I can control it.
The forum was never self moderating hence why rules and additional mods were brought in.
@squirrelking - the stuff on the RHS isn't served from one of the ad network CDNs so won't be blocked by adblockers. Some come from singletrackworld.com itself and others from various Google subdomains.
Looking at the page load in a developer toolbar is somewhat disconcerting: 320 errors, yes that's errors!😧😓 A lot are cross-origin errors but there's some definite coding errors in there as well.
Four page loads in Safari and the browser has become all but unusable, in fact I've had to kill the process.
I'd honestly have thought you'd have known what I meant Drac. But it's ok. nevermind.
fingz change. Not always for the better. No biggie.
No, if it’s reported it will be looked in to. Yes sometimes some people jump on ‘Oh you’re a mod you can’t say that’.
Yeah sorry wasn't clear there - people won't report it if it is just a poster because it is the internet and dicks be dicks. The second but was what I was trying to get at. People's perception of the message is entirely influenced by who the messenger is. Anyone who has even a smidgen of officialdom or power, or who can be even slightly deemed to be representing "the man" has to appear to be cleaner than clean. No amount of disclaimers about "opinions are my own" will change that, sadly
the stuff on the RHS isn’t served from one of the ad network CDNs so won’t be blocked by adblockers
Not necessarily. From a quick look(I subscribe to the print mag so not fussed about saying I do run an adblocker by default. Incidentally if you are using UBlock origin then it is easy to disable on a temporary basis) I think it gets blocked by one of the general blocking matches on paths which sound like an advertising network.
Yeah sorry wasn’t clear there – people won’t report it if it is just a poster because it is the internet and dicks be dicks. The second but was what I was trying to get at. People’s perception of the message is entirely influenced by who the messenger is. Anyone who has even a smidgen of officialdom or power, or who can be even slightly deemed to be representing “the man” has to appear to be cleaner than clean. No amount of disclaimers about “opinions are my own” will change that, sadly
Ah yeah get you now. People do report and mods also spot them.
Some mods remain anonymous for that reason Cromolyolly so they don't get judged and criticised, some as I say just jump on the mods because they're mods.
Anyone who has even a smidgen of officialdom or power, or who can be even slightly deemed to be representing “the man” has to appear to be cleaner than clean. No amount of disclaimers about “opinions are my own” will change that, sadly
Yeah, no.
I'm a forum user first and foremost. People can infer what they like, that's their outlook and I can't help that. What you're describing is that being a moderator and a user is mutually exclusive unless you're willing to castrate yourself, and I can't imagine any forum moderator anywhere buying into that unless they had a vested interest in the site.
i quite like the new classifieds.
pluses..... pics of everything, location, and i like the list on the right so you can see 'cars', 'bikes', 'brakes' or 'phones' or whatever. no trawling through stuff youve no interest in.
minuses.....maybe not as many classified posters now but there just doesnt seem much on there. i get what people mean with the 'browsing through a second hand shop' style of the old classifieds. people maybe just cant be bothered putting up their used chromecasts and the like now, which would be useful impulse buys.
looks a worthwhile business model tho if some people are paying to boost their ads and stw have already made more wedge now than all those years of 'donations'. i still dont look on there that often now, spose i just dont think there'll be anything to interest me in there at present and lazyitis says its more clicks away rather than just keep flitting between the 4 tabs at the top all the time like i used to.
i think in general im one of the lucky ones, i dont really get any issues these days with the site across whatever platform i use. i use chrome on a chromebook and also on a macbook. yes i use an adblocker (whitelisted the classifieds) but i pay a sub so feel like im contributing, and with the double security of an AB and a P, i just dont get any pop-ups, flashing ads, pages jumping about or such like.
oh and i also think the mods do a good job. im contented. sorry to be so boring 😀
^^^ stealth Mod 😉
Despite using the most vanilla of setups, Android/Chrome/Windows, this place still has numerous unpleasant issues.
I never used the classifieds anyway, so not fussed about that, but it's just more broken, less pleasant and less convenient to use than it used to be.
So therefore I use it less.
Rusty Spanner
Subscriber
Despite using the most vanilla of setups, Android/Chrome/Windows, this place still has numerous unpleasant issues.I never used the classifieds anyway, so not fussed about that, but it’s just more broken, less pleasant and less convenient to use than it used to be.
So therefore I use it less.
+1 What Rusty says.
I am actually bored of reading about the new classifieds.
If you don't like it don't use it, if you do and can live with its ongoing development then great...
There really are more important things to worry about in life.
