[Closed] So I want to try road racing + build a bike specifically for this

250W at 80rpm feels like really hard work, much less so at 95rpm.

it will be as you're applying more force per crank revolution to achieve the same power at lower cadences (power = torque x rpm)

https://planetcalc.com/1908/

I'm a 65kg racing snake so rely on high cadences to make my meagre power, and need to do some low cadence strength work if I really want to increase my power.

I'm a 65kg racing snake so rely on high cadences to make my meagre power, and need to do some low cadence strength work if I really want to increase my power.

This - I'm 68 kg and my average race cadence is 105. Mashing the pedals harder simply does not work for me.

I've run 50/34 and 11-25 and 11-23 (10 speed), then upgraded to 11 speed and now run 52/36 and 11-25. The 11T is not troubled with a 52 when I ride.

EDIT Average cadence for the 12 4th cat and E/123 races is 100.8 and stdev 2.4. I'm pretty consistent and never below 97. Ther harder the race, the higher the cadence creeps!

Definitely need to increase mine then! Up Brian's bend I need to drop some more gears instead of grinding up there.

I just had another look, I'm 70kg and averaging 91 over the 6 races. 🙄

I'm a 65kg racing snake so rely on high cadences to make my meagre power, and need to do some low cadence strength work if I really want to increase my power.

This, except i'm a stone lighter.
Took me a couple of seasons to realise and tie it back to theory, but looking at the Friel competency triangle, you can do as much muscular endurance work as you like, but if you don't have it underpinned by any force you are going no-where.
Added big gear intervals to my winter last year and saw some good gains come spring/summer.

Woo good news. New cassette is being delivered on Friday - just in time 🙂

I have mixed feelings about Saturday, particularly as TiRed isn't out on course.. I'm expecting a lot of silliness due to it being the last race...TT attempt anyone? 🙄

On a cadence note, this is my FTP test results from last night:
[img] [/img]

Cadence = 85.
Everytime I dropped a gear and increased my cadence the power dropped dramatically. I think this may be because of my 11-28 cassette on the turbo?

Nath-
There must be a good gear ratio calculator you can use to illustrate it? "It depends" has to be the answer for now surely? 🙂

Re Saturday- I think you've started off so well and then gradually talked yourself into a confidence problem. (Not unrelated to your Vortex of course 😉 )
Just have faith in your ability, keep your eyes up the road and start planning your positioning for the sprint a lot earlier!

Or hook up with Johnny and attack the inevitable 3 or 4 laps to go lull 😉

I vote attack with 5 to go, flat chat up the hill, then hang on! If you die, you die in a blade of glory!

Oh and the results from last week have changed?????
Do they have footage to review or something??

@CH - I can safely say I didn't touch 25/24. So tighter gears in between is a good thing for me - smoother the better! Yeah I'm probably not going to use the 11 but it'll be good to know it's there for the sprint.

Absolutely, pointlessly my confidence was shot because of the vortex - It's a bloody number, but it's been drilled into me by Zwift that it's the be all and end all. Last week, even though I'd disrupted the field endlessly even on my first outing, I'd forgotten all about that and was just focused on the apparent 20% loss in power (plus job situation). This week after that FTP im refocused and ready to roll.

It's helping talking to an old school friend (the one I mentioned is a pro bike fitter), we are near enough identical ages/weight/height. He's a Cat 2 and FTPs at 324w.

This leads me to this years targets, I have 3 simple ones;
1) Race as much as I can and enjoy it
2) Cycle 6,214 miles (10,000 km)
3) Match his FTP 😆

@weeksy we shall see 🙂

Nath- you need to be #236 from this Vid 🙂

Haha maybe at Abingdon, with all it's room, I can dream!

Lol!

I worked out what they had done with the results. They had actually pasted up the rd6 results again!!

That's a brilliant Vid !

@fifeandy using that calc and the FTPs 184 av:

[img] [/img]

149 is a much more achievable number!

Glad to be of service 🙂

What's your resting HR nathb? Your threshold is similar to mine, but my resting HR has always been on the high side for my fitness level, compared with the 'norm'. When I was 22, and really pretty fit, it was about 60, whilst my housemate with whom I used to ride was high 30s. Currently around 70. I think that HR zones that are calculated as a percentage of max or threshold HR tend to be on the low side as a result, for me, most markedly in the low zones. Back in the day I used HR zones that were based on % of HR range (i.e. resting+X%(max-resting) which made more sense.

Ultimately, I'm sure that the best thing is to harvest data and experience over a decent period riding with HR and power, and figure out in conjunction with RPE what HR zones seem to work for you. Especially at the low end. If you're trying for active recovery, and you're breathing hard or couldn't comfortably hold a conversation then you're going too hard. If you feel tired at the end or your legs feel sort then ditto. But if it feels really easy then don't worry if your HR is a bit higher than it 'should' be.

@gray

Resting 45
Threshold 184
Max 198

Facebook has just shown me this, this is a website for determining your "perfect" race.

https://www.bestbikesplit.com/public/56603

I can import it into Zwift to try it as it should replicate the hills etc.

[IMG] [/IMG]

First draft! Weekly Hours may be ambitious but not too worried as long as the ebb and flow of intensity/duration matches the plan.
I'll nail down the daily hours nearer the time.
Loads of speed drills to get that cadence up 🙂

If I race Abingdon on the 25th, it will just replace my tempo session and I may ease off on the force session the next day....

I watched Nathan Guerra doing his big gear hill repeats on Zwift last night. Holy cow! 2x45mins up to the radio mast on a SS. HR was tickling Threshold and average cadence was about 55rpm! He was hurting big time!

Facebook has just shown me this, this is a website for determining your "perfect" race.

Fine for a race long solo effort and you're happy to do an hour of over/under intervals 🙂

I think bestbikesplit is probably a good tool to help with pacing on long solo efforts like an ironman bike split, but a bit pointless for a racing lap of Hillingdon.

Yes, you are kind of tied into 40 other people's perfect races too 😀

Unless you are MrBlobby and just TT off the front 😉

First draft!

Thanks Fifeandy. Good shout- especially if the A sessions turn into another race 😉

Crikey! That looks baffling versus mine:

[img] [/img]

I think I need to do something on Wednesday nights....

I think I need to do something on Wednesday nights....

FFD to random points to see a pro MTB rider using Zwift, a singlespeed and a smart trainer to self-harm 😀

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/120669463

Only because of the codes Nath. Each letter represents a category- S are speed drills (as in leg speed). E are endurance, M are muscular endurance (Tempo, SST, Over/unders etc), F are force, A are anaerobic and P are power.
Then the numbers just correspond with a menu of different workouts in the book 🙂

fifeandy
Is there a Mrs Nath?

Yup - it's her rest day from the gym on Wednesdays too so I've got no chance. 😆

@CH Just noticed all my notifications on FB haha you nutter.

That looks baffling versus mine

+1 🙂

My current plan... Two 4x8 sessions a week. The rest is z2 (and maybe one z1 ride) with a rough TSS target for each week. With 2 big volume weeks / 1 low volume week structure. That is it for Jan and Feb. Simples 🙂

Given how far you are ahead of me Nath, I don't feel qualified to comment on your plan 😀

Given how far you are ahead of me MrBlobby I don't feel qualified to comment on your plan 😀

Hmm. Pattern developing here 😀

I always find the simpler a training plan is to the follow the more likely you are to follow it, but then again up to a few weeks ago all my training has been unplanned ad hoc stuff 😆

I'm concentrating on SST (sweet spot) training until Abingdon is over, get my FTP up a little before giving back the PM. 😆

To be honest, you can replace many of the suggested workouts with stuff you already do but it's the order that's important. So if you look, you never work the same system on consecutive days and never do three hard days on the trot to allow for the all important recovery. (Hence Fifeandy's suggested amendments).

The weekly tables come next (the ones I posted a pic of) and they really illustrate the up-down polarisation of the work. So a long quite-hard session may be followed the next day by a short harder one or a longer easier one but never by another long quite-hard one. IYSWIM 🙂

You want each day to be black or white or else they all end up grey 😉

I see 😛

(I had to google IYSWIM 😆 )

Been offered a Ultegra PM at £304 by the company I'm renting from (well technically £454 as they have a £150 deposit from me haha)... Arghh so tempted..

Been offered a Ultegra PM at £304 by the company I'm renting from (well technically £454 as they have a £150 deposit from me haha)... Arghh so tempted..

Send it back. The Vortex gives better numbers 🙂

+1

My current plan... Two 4x8 sessions a week. The rest is z2 (and maybe one z1 ride) with a rough TSS target for each week. With 2 big volume weeks / 1 low volume week structure. That is it for Jan and Feb. Simples

Got to say over the years my plans have evolved more towards this style rather than the detail CH has, but that's mostly a by product of crappy weather and life getting in the way. If i worked part time and lived somewhere warm i'd probably be more structured.

Currently my plan for Feb/March is: 1* big gear session, 1* lumpy SS ride, 1* 2hr z2, 1* longer z1/2 and 1* short z1 working to a 3 weeks on, 1 week easy pattern.
I no longer assign rides to specific days of the week - i do the hard sessions when i'm fresh or forced onto the indoor trainer, the easy sessions when i'm hurting and the rest days when i'm tired. If I get to the end of the month and i've completed 90% of the planned rides and 90% of completed rides have been good quality then i'm happy.

mrblobby - Member

Send it back. The Vortex gives better numbers

Haha, yeah I'd imagine I could become a domestique with a FTP of 364W 5.2w/kg 8)

For me, you kind of do the hard work when you create the plan. Then each day, you can relax knowing that (assuming you trust the plan 😉 ) you're doing the right thing.
With Strava and Zwift- it's easy to get paranoid that you're not doing enough!! 😀

Nath- buy it!! You know you want it 🙂 It will help incentivise your job hunt 😀

The wedding in 2018 is doing that buddy! 😆

Points are in, there's a bit of a pattern forming for me here:
[img] [/img]

Prediction for Saturday: 11th 🙂

p.s. I've just been browsing on our mutual friends history, he comes across as a strong rider, I think he needs to sit in more than me!
[img] [/img]

Yes! Loads of pics of him off the front but he gets frustrated that nobody will work with him.

It's quite scary how hard it is for you two to get points- I'm not going anywhere soon me thinks 😀

Going into spring i'd recommend adding some fast paced group rides in to those training plans.

A good chaingang is great training but also a lot of fun. The midweek ones starting up again when the clocks go forward is one of the things i look forward to all winter.

@Omar Little- it's definitely something I'd consider trying out.

So who else is racing @ Abingdon this week then?

I did the SST (short) 50 min workout this evening - felt very good, hard but not too hard.

FTP set at 305, so 5 mins warmup. 4x sets of 5 mins @ 295 & 5 mins @ 270, then a 5 min cool down.

Definitely going to do it once a week going forward.

I've got a snow symbol showing for tomorrow's weather 😯