[Closed] So..... How much suspension is required?

Depends

How long is your piece of string?
Somewhere between too little and too much.

you can ride tech trails with no suspension so 0-200mm take your pick.... its kinda a 'how long is a piece of string' question and you wont get the correct answer on a forum...

If you want to ride more technical trails isn't that skills, rather than a skill compensator?

'how long is a piece of string'

Double half its length. Now that you have the answer use it wisely.

I'm thinking skills required and working on but also a machine that can take the pounding and help give confidence

In my mind, the equivalent to a 100mm trail hardtail is a 120-130mm full susser. 100mm full sussers seem to be exclusively racers, with some exceptions like the Anthem X which is pretty capable all round.

Was looking at anthem x5?

Giant trance would fit the bill nice with 120mm front and rear

Just buy an Orange 5 and be done with it

i went from 130mm hardtail to 150f/130rr full suss.
tbh, honest, its flippin brilliant, but i reckon something with a little less travel would be just as good.
i think its geometry, the correct geometry puts you in the right position to use what youve got more effectively.
probably applies equally to every type of bike imho.

I find 120mm is a nice balance.

I went from rigid to hardtail to long travel full sus, then back to short travel and finally back to hardtail and I'm happy there. I find I can do everything on a hardtail that I could do on a full sus, faster and more confidently. I no longer feel like the trail is ironed out and dull and can practice my skills more effectively.

YMMV

I went from a 100mm hardtail to a 120/100 full sus and its perfect for natural trails. Fast up and down without the weight penalty.

Anthem X2 here, much more capable bike than the 120mm bike it replaced. I have a full susser because I want more comfort than a hardtail gives, and I like a bit of speed downhill. Something like an Anthem X keeps Dow hills interesting as its not got mega slack angles. Oh then there's the added bonus that its technical climbing ability is fantastic, much better than a hardtail.

You can get last years X5 for £899 which is a bargain considering its the same frame as the top of range X1.

Really though you need to ride a few different full sussers to find what works for you.

120mm is probably enough for 99% of the riding you'll do. With 150mm plus you're going to lose some handling sensitivity and it'll most likely be heavier too. An Anthem/Trance is an excellent place to start though.

The correct answer is probably more related to your skill level. A good rider will get down anything on a 100mm HT. An average rider will get down anything on a 200mm DH bike. Go figure.

Get some more skills from a skills day. Much cheaper, fun, and you'll get to meet some new people.

Bigger bikes are fun though!

Can you be more specific on your style/terrain? A big cross section of riders can happily bosh down a black run on entirely different bikes.

I was at Coed y Brenin recently on my Trance (with extra Pike cush on the front), a mate was on a Genesis steel HT with 120mm and our other chum was on a 100mm (or less?) alloy v-brake HT from back in't day. I feel able to ride down lumpy things faster as my feet don't have to absorb as much as they did on a HT, but the bike has a bit of delay in transmission compared to my previous. Things like jumping require a different style but you adapt fairly quickly.

I prefer a FS but I like a bit of DH lite. Therefore I put up with a heavier build for the fun descents. I also like rigids and LTHTs.... but each have a thing they do well and overlap in different ways!

Maybe see if you can get your hands on a 140(ish)mm travel steel HT with an adjustable fork? Drop it for the fire road and unwind it for the downs. I had a Dialled PA with a fixed length Revelation which was great fun. Oh and bung an adjustable seatpost in it! I say LTHT as you keep the climbing ability and simplicity of the HT but get a bit more cush for the fun bits.

Or get a FS...

Just finished fitting a set of Fox Talas 140-120-100 forks to my hardtail - bargain from Rose last week, less than £200 delivered. Hopefully riding will now include an element of 'cake and eat it' adjust-ability. 8)

+1 for a Skills course first.

Cheers for advice so far.

I have been on a weekend skills course, learned and loved a lot thanks to ridelines.
I have very good fitness and love climbing the trails. I have and do ride the black at Glentress on the hardtail. Also other trails at Innerleithen. I do take it easy on the way down but mange most of the black at GT. Confidence on rocks and routes needs worked on. Climb to top of mast and back up deliverance are excellent. And I like the trail down to deliverance.

One friend has said to get a dropper seatpost as it would help on downhills as I usually keep it at my climbing height.
I got the HT (titanium) as I race some off road triathlons. I love it, an athem x maybe an option as it could be a fun/race bike too? Or would trance be better as fun bike? Or just keep using HT and buy a few bits?

Road/tri bikes are a lot easier to understand!

I would work out in your mind, honestly, what sort of trails your likely to ride. As IMO a 100mm hardtail is just right for 99% of Glentress e.c.t but that's not to say more travel is wrong!

An anthem would easily double as a race bike, maybe make the hardtail redundant...if you like the anthem, I hated mine! But putting my dislike a side not sure the Anthem will be that different to your Hardtail, will have more comfort (and a bit more control due to the rear not bouncing around as much) but you will still have racy angles which, although not a problem, will not be as confidence inspiring.

If your looking to buy an extra bike I would look more at the trance style bike, 120mm + with a more relaxed head angle. If your looking for more do it all to replace the hardtail either, look at the something like the anthem or maybe better with slightly less aggressive head angle a trek fuel or scott spark.

Or could look at a 29er as an all rounder ,if you want more confidence on downhills.

Or if you like your current bike, try playing about with the set up, try a shorter stem/wider bar, a bigger tyre up front even an adjustable fork or longer fork (with in reason). Dropped post maybe.

As I said at the start, IMO I find a 100mm hardtail just fine for Glentress and if it's mainly that you want to feel more confident on these sort of trails then practice is the best thing, a boring answer I know, but I used to struggle on downhills but (after A LOT of years riding and racing) DH sections are my strong point. So maybe just need to persevere and tweak your current bike. But if it's that you really want to ride more advanced trails, often, I would look at something slacker, head angle wise, rather than extra travel, usually extra travel comes with this but not sure replacing/adding to your current ride with an anthem is going to help much.

And yes I agree road bikes are easier to understand!

I got a Turner Flux 120mm of travel and for 80% of natural riding its great and more than capable. but I'm an xc gay at heart.

This is what your after:

[img] [/img]

Any less travel and you will almost certainly die in a ball of firey pain when attempting mountain bicyclering... FACT!

It is a bit of an impossible question. You say you want a full suss. Do you want it light and fast but more comfortanble than a hardtail or do you want to tackle the trails faster? Racier frames fit the former and all mountain frames the later.

Frames generally seem to come in 100-120mm or 150mm. Longer travel are often heavier as they are aimed at people doing more aggressive riding. They are often more relaed in geomety making downhills seem easier, again because that is what the riders will probabyl doing.

FWIW I went for a stumpjumper which has 140mm. I have raced on it and got podiums on it I've also ridden some fairly difficult terrain on it.

I wouldn't go for a 100mm personally because I don't want a dedicated race bike. If I got a new bike now I would probably go for the 120mm "touring" ones from Canyon.

I don't think suspension makes you able to ride features that you couldn't previously. Where I found it makes the big difference is in how fast you ride over rough terrain.

I'm not sure how an FS will help you with rocks and roots if you say it's a confidence thing. Roots is all about weighting and unweighting at the right times and hitting them in the right way. Importantly you can't be timid with them and tyre choices don't seem to help.

If you're struggling with rocks then it might be about tyre choices or even just tyre pressure. Try running them a little softer and see if it makes a difference. Get some recommendations for good tyres - local knowledge helps here due to different types of rock, but I find high rollers good for just about everything except mud.

Lastly, definately get your saddle out of the way if you think it's hindering you. Before buying a dropper why not try getting a decent QR and some carbon paste so it's nice and easy to adjust. This way you can get the saddle out of the way in less than 10 secs and again see if it makes a difference.

I'm not trying to talk you out of getting an FS bike, but I think buying one for the wrong reasons, or worse still the wrong bike for you just leads to a lot of expense and risks disappointment.

Get your seat down. basically mirroring what gingers is saying.

"160" .....Go Big or Go Home 😀

Dont forget, cheap suspension = crap suspension.

When/if you do go FS, make sure you set it up to suit your weight/style.

Make sure the geometry of the bike still suits your main riding.

Ok I'm now thinking that I just stick with my HT. I'm also thinking about some 12 hour races. Would a HT be good for these? Less to go wrong but not as comfortable?

What's the thoughts?