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everyone has a bad day at work sometimes. no?
you never do yer bugger 😉
raddoggair..
I really don't want to get drawn into this.. BUTyou are taking issue with how a bloke is dealing with a customer..
in effect.. you are 'in a mood' cos someone is behaving in a way that you would disapprove of if you were the blokes boss... (which you're not)OR.. you are in a mood cos you wouldn't like to be treated this way of you were the customer in question..
I'm really sorry.. BUT.. horses for courses... I walk into some bars and get a polite reception from the staff.. I walk into others and get called a prick cos my attitude isn't the type that they welcome into their establishment.. that's life.. freedom of choice etc etc etc.
your attitude is very victorian.
victorian.. comedy, nice one!!
i'm glad to hear though that you feel that this is acceptable to do to your custom. If Mark had sent a personal e-mail to the said customer then fair enough, answer his queries and feedback on what his expecations are. The fact of the matter he didn't, he chose to express it on the biggest cycling forum in europe ( i think ) and also via twitter.
My attitude isn't victorian, its simple common sense and decency.
For the record, when you walk into these bars where people and staff call you pricks do you return ( on a monthly basis). The answer obviously is no, because as people we expect a standard level of attitude and service. That bar would lose your custom like this mag would lose custom.
I agree with that, showing that level of contempt for customers isn't really on. If a few disgruntled middle managers on the internet upset you that much then you should try working in a call centre!
I was really thinking about canceling my subscription when the mag arrived yesterday, you just convinced me
I think this has been great; its very easy to find faults, and the net makes it easy to complain. It's often less easy for companies or individuals to defend themselves, and sometimes you just have to call people cocks.
I think Marks rant was great, and his apology was a good one too.
STW; made by real people....
Crikey.
The OP simply said in terms to understand
Last year i paid £5 for a 10oz sirlion steak. This year i paid £7 for a 8oz sirlion steak.
paying more for the same on a lot this year though..
oh wait thats not the same is it... 😆
Well i'll still buy it. Head and shoulders above what the others produce. ST is actually a mag that I can read and then re-read. I judge a mag on bath time. I can usually class ST as making my skin prune like and cold, and i aint a slow reader.
Keep up the good work guys, but just take the criticism a little more light heartedly.
If I flew off the handle like that every time someone criticized me or my guys, I'd be in ****in Jupiter's orbit.
haha you can't hide on the internet 😀
.
wish I could call my clients cocks
if I had any that were of course
they're all lovely
:waves:
aye.. maybe I'm wrong.. I'm not a businessman.. but I personally do not begrudge one or two angry outbursts about some sarky comments..
have we actually found evidence that the outbursts weren't tongue in cheek yet?
baaaahhh.. who gives a monkeys..
for the record.. you speaketh silly nonsense about what you presume me to do with regard to a 'standard level of attitude and service' in bars.
in that case my man, enjoy the beer 😛
for the record.. you speaketh silly nonsense about what you presume me to do with regard to a 'standard level of attitude and service' in bars.
this what i thought, that'd you'd frequent bars where they call you 'prick'
I'd be shocked if I walked into my local and the landlord didn't call me something a heck of a lot worse than a prick.. 🙄
I hope he's had his headset fixed by tomorrows ride too
I hope he's had his headset fixed by tomorrows ride too
you clearly have a very special landlord! 🙂
I suppose one day i should read the magazine.
Raddogair - a bit ott. man behaves like a cock then apologises. end of the matter.
The great thing about this thread is the metaphors. What with steaks, microwaves and others. Hilarious.
Someone exercised their freedom of speech. Mark responded ... vociferously ... (being generous) but later had the good grace to rescind his comments and apologise. Hopefully this should draw to an end a matter that (as a collection of mountain bike enthusiasts) we could best describe as internecine.
Raddogair - a bit ott. man behaves like a cock then apologises. end of the matter.
Your right TJ you prick.
Wait..
I'm sorry
We're cool then !!!
oh dear PSML @ radoggair!!!!!!
havent really sat down to read the mag yet but I agree its one I tend to sit down with after the kids go to bed with a beer and enjoy bit like a good book. TBH I think the mag is a victim of its own sucess we get excellent so often bloody brilliant seems a drop even when its miles a head of the other mags.
Let's end this thread now it's getting tres boring.
STW does fill a niche/gap nicely.
Just wish they'd be more scathing/direct sometimes on product reviews. The commencal where they swapped out the Mazz for the Fox's on the test- I'd have preferred 'what an utter pile of shit'. 8)
Plus theres a gap to report on- kit for mountain bikers on a budget.
Brit Army etc kit is designed for outdoor use right? So why dont we use it more for mountain biking? A mag recently ran a mammoth winter jacket test where the winner was over £250 FFS.
I bought a Brit Army Goretex/DPM jacket (brand new- thanks Skiprat) for £25.
Why spend £100+ on colourful pieces of shit? Not everyone earns 60k+
I wonder what would have happened if any of us had called Mark a cock?
Double standards on the STW forum? Noooooo never.....
Singletrack is by far and away the best MTB mag.
I have some suggestions which would improve it for me.
Bring back Bike Porn
Readers bikes- just pics or a little article about the bike/rider too.
Quick 1 page trail guides: A photo & a map with a loop from an STW writer or sent in by a reader.
Change Long Term tests slightly- the frames picked this year ('cept Benji's Decade) are all much of a muchness & are all going to be good so whats the point? Maybe testers could all have different brakes, BBs, forks, chains, tubeless kits etc etc & in a big end of year issue 'compare and contrast.'
Random ideas for a articles.
Old vs New-
How about testing an old Orange 5 against a new one? Or a 2002 Santa Cruz Superlight vs a 2010 model or even an old Inbred vs a newer one? I'm not talking retro vs modern but just models up to 10 years old. Would be useful to people who can't afford (or justify spending) £3000 on a new bike.
Second Hand Challenge-
2nd hand buying is not mentioned much in Singletrack. A guide would be daft but what about for a bit of fun some 'Top Gear' type challenges ie £300 to spend on a Hardtail, or £500 to spend on a FS which will then be ridden down Fort William or in the Alps or whatever.
OK so most of these suggestions are about bikes- I'm sure some of you who are more interested in riding (eugh! 🙂 could come up with ideas for articles about that-
What about 'rides in your backyard' more? I actually like those. I know 'other' mags have done these but a group photo (with names) of the locals showing STW around along with the route etc would be great.
In my view STW has to either be the mag of the people or a commercial entity. At the moment it's trying to be both, sort of like the Labour party, and it just doesn't work well. We all want the former, but the market won't support it. It's mostly our fault.
Singletrack is by far and away the best MTB mag.
+1
Recent issues aren't as interesting as those from a few years back though.
@epicsteve: agreed. ST is still the best UK mag (for me anyway) with the best balance of stuff, but when I think back to the standard of the articles in early issues (e.g. the one about the guy who lost his driving licence and had to ride everywhere) I think it was generally higher then. There don't seem to be as many longer articles (like the aforementioned one) now, which I used to like. Maybe that's just an impression and the word counts wouldn't back it up, I don't know.
Anyway, here's an idea: "Readers' lives" (see what I did there?) looking at how a range of people in different parts of the country fit biking in around all their other commitments. Obviously they'd have to pick interesting people, i.e. not me. 🙂
People overstate their opinions on the Internet; learn to ignore or take the p1zz out of it.
Mark [resident grumpy]: rant/invective was a "silly" moment. The apology was good, but it's not the first time is it? Get a grip that man!
Great thread, best so far this year.
ctk makes some good suggestions
ie new vs old, just how much progress has your hard end cash bought or is it just a case of BNG !!
i like the mag, also appreciate the frequency change, i think that's why they "seem lighter " as the pressure is there to deliver more often.
focus on the average kit rather than spangly stuff would be good in the credit crunch times, or perhaps a kind of SLX vs XTR type is it worth it / whaddya get for the extra type test.
perhaps pre alps prep for those heading to PDS etc
pre race kit / advice from seasoned riders
dig out some old MBUK from early days, sureley some inspiation there?
its a hard job to please, but overall STW is still light years ahead of the rest.
IGMC
Don't take this the wrong way Mark, after all it is your trainset. I wouldnt post on a forum/public as myself if it was my mag. I'd have an 'employee' login to answer questions and keep alittle distance.
I just think the negs far outweigh the positives of being able to speak to the Mag people directly.
CBA reading the whole thread, but slagging off customers or potential customers is a really bad move - extremely unprofessional.
FWIW I haven't bought the mag in a while - wasn't that impressed with the last couple of issues I did buy. I actually prefer MBUK, if you can get past all the dudespeak. Sorry.
My kneejerk reaction after reading the whole of this thread was to bin my subscription, the OP brought up issues which I believe were legitimate.
However 1, Mark has apologized and 2, The fact this thread is still open, demonstrates to me that STW is big enough to allow debate. Bravo! you've still got my subscription.
The question now :- is it appropriate to add "official Forum C&%k" to my sig?
I'm super-stoked and we shredded the trails on our last ride.
I might buy Singletrack to see what the fuss is about, shame my local stockist went bust (Borders). Wonder how much their closure has impacted sales of smaller magazines.
I used to love buying an espresso and wandering around Borders. I browsed casually, treated it as relaxing and ALWAYS came out with a bag full of mags or a book. Actually left the house specifically to visit just a Borders in fact.
I don't see WHSmiths etc as anywhere near the same...you go in and out as fast as you can 🙁
Second Hand Challenge-
2nd hand buying is not mentioned much in Singletrack. A guide would be daft but what about for a bit of fun some 'Top Gear' type challenges ie £300 to spend on a Hardtail, or £500 to spend on a FS which will then be ridden down Fort William or in the Alps or whatever.
I really like that idea.
Many of my favourite articles/reviews have been centred around the budget end of the market or based around old equipment.
It's nice to get something we can relate to without needing a payrise!
[i]CBA reading the whole thread, but slagging off customers or potential customers is a really bad move - extremely unprofessional. [/i]
It is but I can see why it happened...
The OP was not constructive criticism, it was basically saying that this issue was s**t. No mention of what he would like to see vs what was actually there, no offer to review or write something for the mag, just a shouty rant.
Friday night, 10pm (ish) after a hard week of work, perhaps with a glass or two of wine inside hm (I don't know), Mark reads this, what do you think he's going to say?! OK, maybe a bit of a kneejerk reaction but if someone publicly criticised your work on a forum on a Friday night you'd react the same, especially if it's YOUR company that you built from scratch, that you've put years of your life and a lot of your money into.
Mark has apologised but I don't see the OP saying anything along the lines of "you know what, my criticism was a bit harsh, I'd like to see more of A/B/C and less of X/Y/Z"
KINGTUT:
Great thread, best so far this year.
Maybe turn it into a mag feature?
In that case he needs to use a mod login under a different name or use the superstarcomponents method 😉
Friday night, 10pm (ish) after a hard week of work, perhaps with a glass or two of wine inside hm (I don't know), Mark reads this, what do you think he's going to say?!
I'd expect him to say nothing. I would expect him to be at the pub or at home chilling out, not reading about work specially if it's been a hard week. 😀
I still like the mag - still as good as the first issue I read years ago. Stop moaning and write your own, or buy whatever you think is better.
Singletrack is clearly the best mtb specific mag and web forum (IMO) but not beyond criticism. Nice to see a quick apology for a knee jerk overreaction though.
Although I'm thinking a forfeit should be in order!
I do get cross at these types of threads knowing just how hard every single member of our staff has worked on this issue in particular.
The only person who cares if you worked hard is your mum.
It's the result that matters. I stopped subscribing a few months ago. People riding round gravel pits grumbling that their handlebars were 3mm too narrow.
Mark , congratulations on expressing your feelings,what we need is a lot more of this, the customer isnt always right, and the customer has the choice to buy or not buy the magazine, i buy it to support this forum, and for the banter, sometimes im banned or warned but i still come back as do a lot more.
You apologised, and some dont accept your apology, tough on them,its not as if youver stole their bike or chucked it under a road roller,you expressed your opinion an opinion some of us hold about each other, but we still find good things to read,and banter to enjoy with each other.
I love this magazine. I think it is excellent. If you want lots of reviews, then you should think about subscribing to What Mountain Bike- that's what they do, and they're pretty good at it. I've always thought that Singletrack was about something else, things like great articles from places around world that I'll probably never get a chance go to and pushing your riding beyond just a couple of hours at you're local trails to far more adventurous goals- like bivvying in the Canadian Rockies or the Welsh mountains in the depths of winter (to reference the the last, apparently 'thin' issue). As well as well, dare I say it, thought provoking columns! Thought provoking! In an MTB magazine! Maybe that's just a bit too much for some 😉