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I am a Bikeability instructor and teach on that road
I'm now really glad it's nowhere near me, as I might be forced to remove my kid if he was taking the bikeability course. Though in a way I'm not surprised - I almost mentioned earlier that doubtless such courses teach kids that it's more important for them to indicate so that car drivers can save a few seconds than to keep both hands on the bars for better control in tricky situations.
"Nothing about our positioning says anything other than its towards the roundabout."
See I always thought the general idea was to Signal and THEN Manoeuvre - so even if the driver was observant enough to clock their road position, it isn't a great source of information given that they are both signalling that they would like to change it!
Kid and adult signalled too early for me, I'd have signalled but not until I was past the left hand turning and about level with the car. That was those on the roundabout would have know what I was doing but the car would have not had any confusion.
The car took an educated guess as well, not an unreasonable one but still a bit of a guess/assumption.
Overall, all 3 were in the wrong to some degree though I reckon the car was the least in the wrong.
you can't take someone's signal as an indication that it's safe to go. Signal or no signal, the driver MUST ensure it's safe to pull out, if that means waiting until a vehicle has pulled in after signalling then so be it.
The car in the video pulled out irrespective of the cyclists hand signals, it was one of those ignorant moves towards someone on a bike.
you can't take someone's signal as an indication that it's safe to go. Signal or no signal, the driver MUST ensure it's safe to pull out, if that means waiting until a vehicle has pulled in after signalling then so be it.
Correct. But some drivers do assume a left signal means a left turn. Especially a cyclist signal which is a positive action unlike a car indicator which can be left on by mistake.
So a left signal is wrong where it can be misinterpreted.
the instructor did him over by telling him tom signal there. The only way that signal can be interpreted is that I'm turning left here, it's ok for you to pull out guy in car. The only reason to signal was to tell the car waiting your intention, it's not for anyone else's benefit. If yhe wouldn't have signalled the car might have waited.
[i]you can't take someone's signal as an indication that it's safe to go. Signal or no signal, the driver MUST ensure it's safe to pull out, if that means waiting until a vehicle has pulled in after signalling then so be it.[/i]
You're right, and I wouldn't have pulled out.
But as the car approaches, the kid sticks his hand out. To me that's saying 'I'm giving you a clear signal that I'm going left here so on you go'. I generally don't pull out on vehicles indicating until it starts to turn.
But as the car approaches, the kid sticks his hand out.
The videographer/dad signals way before that though and says in the comments that the kid signalled too late! 😯
The videographer/dad signals way before that though and says in the comments that the kid signalled too late!
I'd argue the kid was still too early. Whether or not the car was there. When I'm approaching a roundabout in primary (single lane road) I want to keep any cars behind me behind me. A left signal too early encourages them to start overtaking me. No signal leaves them guessing and hopefully back behind me.
Near the roundabout I'll shoulder check, signal, and take an appropriate position. I'll signal when I'm close enough that any traffic entering the RAB from the first exit can see my signal and know I'm going left, or see my RH signal and know I'm going R and he'll have to stop. The kid's signal was too early to be of value to traffic entering the RAB and probably caused the car to pull out.
In the junction in the video I wouldn't have signalled until past the road on the left if there was a car approaching in that road.
And obviously if sightlines are clear enough that I can see there are no traffic or peds that will benefit from a signal then I won't signal.
+1 generallyI rarely do indicate left whilst riding a bike as it certainly doesn't make it any safer for me
Most left turns on a bike don't need a reduction in speed (blind/sharp/conditions/etc vary) so you're not "holding up" anyone, other than by just being on the road. If i have to slow down or there is no one behind me but someone waiting to pull out of the side street I'm turning into I'll signal. Otherwise signalling just seems to invite drivers to turn left whilst overtaking you and lessens your control.just makes drivers think all cyclists are **** for holding them up and not bothering to signal?
Agree incorrect signals are worse than no signals (soooo many people don't know how to signal on roundabouts)
Of course we are assuming the driver even saw the cyclists.
Even Without the misleading signal i'd hazzard a guess the video would be exactly the same.
I cant believe its got this far and no one seems to have noticed that the car didn't even wait at the junction. Barely slowed for it in fact. I expect that the diver didn't even see then bike let alone the signal so regardless of the rights and wrongs of a child's hand signal, the car driver is entirely wrong. Had they slowed properly for the junction, the bikes would have been that bit further up the road and a they would have to have stopped or mowed them down.
Its whats know as careless driving and it usually ends up as a SMIDSY.
Of course you don't know that without asking the driver. What can't be disputed is that he signalled too early and was 'taught' to do so.
I like the dads line on Youtube about his son knowing an idiot when he sees one. He has had 8 years practice living with his dad so should do by now...