Short travel (dare I say down country) recommendations

In true STW fashion of recomending what you got im gonna say a Transition Spur

At your budget it would have to be 2nd hand

How about a meduim ex demo GX spec with FOX sus for just over 4k direct from the UK importer with full warranty?

https://shop.windwave.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/transition-spur-carbon-medium-gx-aqua-ex-demo__13588?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=Spur-Aqua-M-1&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9IaByLuphgMVdZhQBh3yqg0BEAQYAyABEgKXr_D_BwE

https://shop.windwave.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/transition-spur-carbon-medium-gx-raw-ex-demo__14014?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=Transition-Spur-Raw-M-1&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9IaByLuphgMVdZhQBh3yqg0BEAQYASABEgJ1XfD_BwE

Last model Epic Evo on offer?

I bloody love my Izzo

If stack is your issue, the Spur isn’t that much better than the Top Fuel.

The Element is better still, but the short back end is unbalanced to the long front.

The Tallboy is definitely more trail than the Top Fuel though, so it’s a bit of a case of picking your poison.

It’s the combo off stack and the geometry, it just puts the front too low for me.

that spur looks nice, but think would need the large.

Yeah, I’ve got a Spur. Best bike I’ve ridden but the front is low-ish. I’m fine with that but good to have a sit on one first. Nothing a high rise bar can’t resolve IMO. What a bike though - perfect all rounder, up and down, does it all.

In true STW fashion of recomending what you got I am going to say a Canyon Spectral 125 CF

I've got a Spur and the stack's not that high, only about a cm higher than the Top Fuel (619mm vs 608mm in Large). Currently running 35mm rise bars with 13mm of spacers and it's a good balance for after-work XC rides and weekend trail duty. I'm a leggy 6ft with ape arms.

The Epic Evo is really low and comes with the steerer tube trimmed right back. I'd pass on that if stack is your issue.

The Izzo is around the same as the Spur. I think the Rocky Mountain Element is the highest I've seen (630/40ish?).

“ The Trek is just so low at the front and even with max spacers and riser bars it’s just not working so cutting my losses.”

Have you tried some properly high rise bars? I’m not that tall, both bikes have 29” 160mm fronts and head tubes that aren’t short, and I’m still running 40mm rise bars. There are taller bars available!

Think another issue is that I probably should be on a large. According to Trek I am in the ML size but once you have all the spacers under the stem it does all begin to feel a bit too short so that might not be helping the low front end feeling.

Have you tried some properly high rise bars?

The issue with that of course is, if the sizing is marginal, anything on the steerer tube or bars is eating into the reach & cramping the seated climbing position further.

The Tallboy is the highest stack of the lot, for reference.

Canyon Neuron has lots of stack. Plus good builds for the money and even the warranty hasn’t been rubbish

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mountain-bikes/trail-bikes/neuron/cf/neuron-cf-8/3170.html

A mate rides a Spur and raves about it, was saying today it's more capable than whatever longer travel bike he had before

Love my Cotic Flaremax.

Ideally not the lightest but way outrides it's weight and I have gone full Downcountry to make it easier eg 120 mm Sids,titanium cranks and Hope XCR brakes!

Thanks,

Max.

The issue with that of course is, if the sizing is marginal, anything on the steerer tube or bars is eating into the reach & cramping the seated climbing position further.

That issue is for spacers, not bars.

Spank make some otherwise normal bars with 75mm rise.

As Bikesandboots said, high rise bars won’t affect you reach

That issue is for spacers, not bars.

It’s not, raising bar height, by stem spacers, or higher rise bars all have the same effect of reducing the ‘virtual’ reach.

Reach is a fixed measurement at the top of the head tube, because any height increase is not vertical above it, it eats into the space available, making the fit smaller.

Only if you install it with the rise inline with the head angle. In reality it would be installed with the rise vertically. One trouble with high rise bars though is if you want to roll them for your backsweep/upsweep preference, they move a fair bit fore/aft.

It is vitual/bar/grip reach that I meant.

Diagram here for what I mean https://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-right-mtb-handlebar-rise/

I’ve thought about using tall bars to let me buy a lower stack bike. But they do seem to create issues. If you use them to move the bars straight up you’re simulating a longer stem. Any attempt to get personalise the sweep will have things all over the shop.

Have a look at video cotic posted yesterday on YouTube about Cy’s bike.

I've had a gen4, and currently have a gen5 Tallboy. Great bikes with loads of stack. I'd place them at the rougher end of "down country". I've just bought a Specialized Epic 8 as my fast and light bike. Can't yet comment on how it rides, but check out the geometry and reviews... Definitely at the fast end of "down country"!!

How about a stem with some rise?  Not sure what's available in short lengths, but the more angle the longer stem you need, as stem lengths are, I believe, measured along their axis, not perpendicular to the head tube.

@stanley that evo looks like a speed machine!

just seen this one on offer. Probably not what I am after but I only do more flowing trails so maybe it would cope!

https://www.balfesbikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/specialized-epic-comp-full-suspension-mountain-bike-2023-in-midnight-shadowharvest-gold__57446?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=90323-5004&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu8uyBhC6ARIsAKwBGpTLO0v-J0qo315AZbhUkU-mJWxn6eiBM_eslBMaY9ZVZJg22yy-geYaApBDEALw_wcB

Think another issue is that I probably should be on a large. According to Trek I am in the ML size but once you have all the spacers under the stem it does all begin to feel a bit too short so that might not be helping the low front end feeling.

You are absolutely onto something with this.

I picked up an ML Remedy recently and while it rides nicely, it just doesn’t feel good. Same issue, the front just feels so low and I feel like I’m too far forward. According to Trek it’s the size I should be on, but I think I needed an L.

“ It’s not, raising bar height, by stem spacers, or higher rise bars all have the same effect of reducing the ‘virtual’ reach.

Reach is a fixed measurement at the top of the head tube, because any height increase is not vertical above it, it eats into the space available, making the fit smaller.”

Correct.

If your bars are installed so the rise is vertical rather than inline with the head angle, then the effect is the same as adding spacers AND swapping to a longer stem.

Looking for something similar to you OP. Currently switching between the Epic, Spur and Orange Stage Evo.

The Orange is a similar weight to the Spur and Tallboy and there's some good deals about.

I think main issue is the Fuel is just too small in M/L. I have it a go today with higher rise bars and it’s all just too compact. Serves me right for rushing the purchase when I bought it!

Epic 8

Maybe it’s me. These down country bikes are probably all aimed a bit more at the lower front end possibly. My old fuel has me more upright and is higher at the front for sure. might be a change of tact and look at maybe a lighter weight trail orientated bike.

I'd also go for an Epic 8. I personally wouldn't go for the old Epic XC with the brain shock.

Just before I give up on the top fuel I might try the longer stem I have at home. Not sure how much an extra 10mm will make to handling.

I'm looking for a similar type of bike too. I think I have now settled on the Specialized Epic Evo 8. Looks like a brilliant all rounder and have a better geometry than the Trek Top Fuel, also a good 1.5kgs lighter.

I bought a C’dale scalpel from wheelbase when they were on offer last year (3k down from 5) and I have to say I love it, I’ve got a 170mm travel liteville 301 which I also love but it’s barely been ridden since I got the scalpel.

I have my stem angled down with no spacers and with flat swept bars as I found my Scapel's front end a bit high. Do you think you're maybe just riding a bike that's a bit short for you?

Scott spark is xc but very capable.

I have a canyon lux trail which is very capable.

Sonder had one when I looked (cortex or evolve can't remember which).

@didnthurt

yes I think I should have gone for a large rather than ML. I might try the 55mm stem over the 45mm fitted and see how it feels. Or just cut my losses and look for either a different bike or pick up a top fuel in large. Some decent deals on the 9.7 going (mine is an 8).

the difference between the shortest of headtubes and the longest of headtubes in a given size really isn't much - 30mm or so. I'm not sure a bike that has the same reach but a marginally more head tube length is going to make a massive difference?

^^^ maybe the Trek is just not a good fit for me or I just have to get used to the geometry I guess.

What rise bars do you have on it? How many mm of spacers under the stem?

I tried some higher bars etc but come to the conclusion the bike is just too short.

on a better note, that means bike shopping!! Going to visit YT next weekend and go from there.

I have an Ibis Ripley v3 LS and wouldn't change it.  Good for 30-40 milers with a full-on DH run half way run and some enduro trails.  OK I've put a 140 air shaft in, -1 angleset and bigger front tyre (2.6) but yeah, climbs like a goat and isn't heavy

I woild

like a Ripley but can’t afford one. Have seen one I could actually afford but it’s through bikeinn and not sure how I feel about them!

Merlin have some discounted Ripleys. Still slightly outside your original budget. The ride position on mine was fairly good, although never had it set up as tall at the front as my Stage Evo.

I wouldn't touch a Epic with a Brain (clunk). The Evo models have a decently long feeling cockpit but slack seat tube and low front. People are saying the same about the version 8, which makes sense as the stack is very similar and seat angle only 0.5 degrees steeper.

Well I've been away for a week, but I might as well chip in with my usual recommendation for the Orange Stage Evo.

It's really such a good bike, so fast and fun and lighter than you might think.