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No offence intended to any owners, but Ms AD's Prophet needs replacing and we've always thought a Heckler would be a good like for like replacement when the time comes.
I was surprised to find out even the newest Hecklers still have a 135x10 rear end and a 1 1/8" head tube. No ISCG mounts or dropper cable stops either. It's almost like SC are phasing them out in favour of the Butcher I guess.
Am I right, or is the Heckler still alive and kicking?
The Butcher has been discontinued already.
Really?
Bronson's the way forward then?
I've just bought a new BLT frame and was really please it came with all the above and a slacker head angle too. The Heckler seems to be lagging behind for a long travel bike.
Has it really got a non-tapered headtube?
I've recently bought a Superlight 29, and although it has a qr rear end it comes with tapered headtube and dropper hose guides.
Yep, along with the Nickel.
Don't know what I'll replace my Prophet with when the time comes, there's a shortage of affordable simple single pivot bikes.
From SC USA site:
New for this year there's an ISCG05 chainguide mount, and a tapered headtube.
? My Meta5 is obsolete? Why?
Err, the 2013 heckler has ISCG mount, slacker angles, tapered headtube.
The Butcher got replaced and is no longer produced.
Same as my bikes Hora. Relics from some dim and distant bygone era! We could sell them, but who would buy such prehistoric museum pieces. My P7 is 18 months old now. But it's head tube size and lack of cable lugs for a dropper have cast it into the dustbin of history where it rightfully belongs.
Thank god for big-hearted marketing departments pointing out the dangers to our personal safety! We could have died riding these death traps FFS!!!
superfli - is that right? The SC site and the dealer I spoke to said not...?
Maybe I should be asking if 1 1/8 forks have a future, if not, small headtube bikes have any issue, whether you like it or not.
[quote=agentdagnamit ]superfli - is that right? The SC site and the dealer I spoke to said not...?
http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/heckler/#13description.php
Binners my meta5 has superglide2000 paint finish that enables smooth shredding. Peter Sutcliffe-designed forks that enables a clean kill of any trail and a sexlubematico shock coating (designed in Italy) for smooth horizontal suspension action.
Next year. I guarantee the bored ****s in marketing will just mis-spell normal words.
I'm 100% sure the new Heckler is slacker and has a tapered headtube.
If you can pick up a Butcher cheap its a very good frame and was only discontinued as the APP suspension didn't take off. The magazines rated it very highly.
It was a heckler with better suspension.
Apparently 1 1/8" forks snap if you so much as look at them. I'm going to be taking my 09 Five straight down to the tip, as clearly to allow anyone else to buy and ride such a deathtrap with a straight headtube, no dropper guides and no ISCG05 mounts secondhand would be irresponsible. Or I could just keep riding it as i've never missed any of those things...
Current Heckler has tapered head tube and ISCG05.
Santa Cruz Uk website has conflicting info in the FAQ which shows info for old model. Have a look at the US site and have fun with the bike builder.
What is iscg05?
Edit:just googled. I had no idea such a thing existed. My Trance X29er doesn't have them.....I'm going to send it back.
Next years is ISCG05 Evo II
Next years is ISCG05 Evo II.
Apparently merlins giving away 711mm bars as they are dangerous/too narrow for trail riding
Don't worry Tom. With the new XX1 style chainrings ISCG will soon be made obsolete in the same way V-brake mounts are, which will make your frame awesome.
Wow, I've rattled a few cages. Make sure you all have a good night's sleep wont you.
I didnt suggest the lack of x12 etc made a bike obsolete, that was your own insecurities about your ageing bikes, I merely wondered why SC wasnt updating the spec on that particular model when they had on their others. There seems to be 2 threads running in 1 here 😉
1 1/8" is plenty good enough for me too, as long as they keep being made....
Night night
I merely wondered why SC wasnt updating the spec on that particular model when they had on their others.
They are/have...
...you're the one that cant afford a TRc
Funneh.
I own one. Its foo keng brilliant.
:lol:This thread is pointless as you are all discussing bikes with an obsolete wheel size anyway*
(Runs for cover)
* apart from me & clink who is rides proper wheels ennit
😆
Have you ever considered a career in comedy?
The only problems with the Heckler are
The TopTube is too short (standard problem on the older SC bikes)
BB is a bit too high
The suspension has a big hole in the middle of it - meaning: it blows through the middle of it's travel too easily.
It's a bit heavy really.
2 of us in the group of lads I ride with have bought them and sold them on again within 6 months and neither of us are keen on changing bikes.
Yeah, but it's a cheap way into a brand people want to be seen riding.
It's paid for itself multiple times over & they still sell, so why not keep knocking them out.
I thought Santa Cruz did some genius work with the portfolio in 2013.
2011/12 bring out the tapered head tube and ISCG butcher/nickel at £1300 and drop the "old" heckler to £900.
2013 drop butcher/nickel as they were not selling, put tapered head tube and ISCG on the heckler and sell for £1200
I have the 2011 heckler and its fab.
They're not really that cheap though are they?
My Prophet was £1100 new for a complete bike. This was 3 years ago but it was still cheaper than a Five or Heckler frame.
For a Santa Cruz they are.
Whether you believe it or not, people see SC as an aspirational brand to buy into, so it makes sense to keep selling them.
Bear in mind 99.9% of the buying public are nothing like the majority user base of STW.
The TopTube is too short (standard problem on the older SC bikes)
BB is a bit too high
The suspension has a big hole in the middle of it - meaning: it blows through the middle of it's travel too easily.
It's a bit heavy really.
On my second now, it is a little short in the top tube but it works for me, the BB is a bit low on mine...
I fixed the travel by sorting the shock - One tuned from an alpine finally fixed it.
Weight frame never been the heavy bit....Great bike for a great price really.
rp23 shim mod from a cd case for 1p fixes the shock and takes 5mins to do. Or you could send it off and get it tuned for a approx 10000x more. BB isnt too high on mine? Top Tube is short, but its alright for me.
Hecklers are ace, short in the top tube yes but as a rider with a longish upper body I didn't find this a problem and if anything it made the bike a bit more playful.
Anyway as has been stated in replies above the thread is fundamentally flawed and most of the major assumptions are incorrect and the frame has now been brought more or less up to date. Ok so there's no bolt through dropouts but is that really and issue for most riders?
OK it's getting late and I'm on my fourth beer (which for a lightweight is pretty good) but what the hell is wrong with the Heckler? I have a 2010 model and it is awesome. I'm not and never will be a trail genius or get big air but I know my bike is capable of it even if I'm not. Simple but effective. With a 150mm Revelation up front, DHX 5 Air shock and old fashioned 3 x 9 set up this bike will go up, over or down anything without the new slacker head angle, tapered head tube, ISCG tabs or a dropper post. Regardless of the recent changes SC have made the Heckler has been around for a while now for a good reason, it works! It's even seen off the Butcher and Nickel from within the SC ranks and even with the Bronson (which does look very nice) will be around for a while yet, just like 29ers and 650Bs are not gonna kill off 26 inch wheeled bikes anytime soon.
Here, here! Just replaced my sl with a heckler and its just even more fun! Better thsn mybold meta 5.5 which was my pride and joy.
ISCG tabs and tapered head tube?? Pfft!!
My 2010 Heckler was very happy today in rocky Hebden Bridge with neither. I've lowered my bb and slackened it nicely with a set of offset bushings, and it still climbed really well with 160 bombers!! Going down, if I was man enough to point it, the Heckler gobbled stuff up!
As for lack of bolt through, the single pivot solid chain stay back end is plenty stiff enough.
Some folks reckon Santa Cruz would like to kill off the Heckler and Chameleon and replace them with a cool new model, but they just refuse to die. Nobody's got a stake strong enough to properly skewer a Heckler I reckon.
Worrying about bolt-through rear does amuse me slightly though, Heckler rear with QR is stiffer than a Five rear with maxle.
I had a long chat with the rep on a demo day up in the lakes. Asked about ISCG on the newer (at the time) heckler and he said it was 50/50 if people wanted it. As 2x & 1x is now becoming more accepted it's probably time to do it.
As for both through rear the answer was they don't need it. It's true the back of my heckler is as stiff ans anything, the nomads & blur lt's I tried were too. If the frame is stiff you don't need the maxle.
As a company that doesn't run to the this year/next year buzz it's great design a product sell for 2/3 years then spend the time revising each model in turn. Frames don't become bad overnight.
In a world where the mythical orange 5 is the best bike in the world the heckler can't be old hat (tried both much prefer the heckler)
Latest nomad is bolt through though. The Heckler is still a great bike and the right price