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Access for all. Ace.
The disabled access is a card I remember being played before. So they are going to make from the road to Mam Nick all passable for the disabled?
When the "campsite descent" was done in Hayfield I remember mention of disabled access. Sure the easy access bits that were cheap to do were done. The narrow sunken bit was left alone though, as it would have cost a load of money to do.
There are a number of FPs that are similar. Fix the easy bits, so it looks like they are being useful. Ignore the bits that are expensive to do.
If you were in an offroad wheelchair round here, you'd get pretty nifty at doing U-Turns as the improved BWs and FPs turn to impassable.
DCC asked Peak District MTB - amongst others such as Ride Sheffield, Peak District Local Access Forum, KoftheP, Ride Sheffield and friends of the Peak District - to submit a formal response to their Rushup Edge plans.
Here it is. Interesting alliance forming
[url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/70-rushup-edge-our-official-response-to-derbyshire-county-council ]http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/70-rushup-edge-our-official-response-to-derbyshire-county-council[/url]
Good stuff dan
Let's hope that now its gone above Peter White's head, he might get a forceful sense check from above.
PDMTB, Ride Sheffield and Keeper of the peak all made good responses. I am not so impressed with the LAF response though. Any concessions made to the disabled ramblers could have ramifications for the whole of the Edale loop.
We may yet see DCC use access for as it's trump card. Stanage Long Causeway was lauded as a great improvement for the use of the Tramper.
These are videos of Stanage & Rushup showing the Tramper in action.
Long Causeway:
Chapel Gate:
The spec mentioned at the LAF was for a surface with no more than a 5" step every 5' to enable a Tramper to pass, more than that and it is too bumpy to be comfortable. There is also a declared intent on the DR website to have gates & stiles etc removed to aid access. It's a veritable minefield of rights, legal issues and specifications and DCC may yet use them to try and thwart us.
We may yet see DCC use access for as it's trump card. Stanage Long Causeway was lauded as a great improvement for the use of the Tramper.
They are almost certainly lining that one up for use, aren't they? 'Inspecting repairs' in January - you can almost see the email trail between the DRs and DCC Highways Dept.
I wonder how many disabled ramblers on trampers actually use Chapelgate or the Long Causeway?
The Tramper looks totally unsuitable for off road. Is there not an electric quad bike?
I've just made the thousandth comment on this thread.
I have nowt to say.
Unbelievable! DCC are ruining an area of natural beauty to make it accessible for just how many disabled people??? At the expense of everybody else that uses the trail.
Can we get a mod to put back as a sticky? I get the feeling that the fight to save our trails has only just begun. Where are DR going to strike next? The whole peak district is up for grabs!
I think perhaps a more constructive approach would be to work with the DR to help them identify paths which we all agree could be developed.
Pook has a good point and we have sent our response to DCC over to DR and asked if they would share theirs with us. Hope fully if we can both see where the other is coming from we can reach some form of compromise.
At the LAF meeting they stressed that Rushup Edge / Chapel Gate is a BOAT and therefore a highway and should be surfaced accordingly. This negates the fact that there is far better highway, built by the Highways Authority 50m to the south. The problem seems to be as has been pointed out earlier, this is more of a failure of the designations to keep pace with the changing environment around Rushup Edge / Chapel Gate
Parallel trails? The walkers already go up on the banks to get a better view when they walk, why not have a well packed down smoother trail to one side of the rockier trail? Not ideal in terms of visual impact, but would be great to have access for all paired with keeping interesting trail surfaces.
Kelvin - that came up at the LAF meeting.
There was general interest in that approach but...
1. DCC are only interested in the highway, that's the bit with the steps, the rest of the are to either side belongs to the landowner and using it is, technically, trespass.
2. It would be PDNPA that would have to approach the landowner to explore the acceptability of doing this to their land as DCC are not interested.
3. There would be a consideration of the change in nature of the landscape and that would probably not be supported by quite a few other user groups.
4. We were advised at the meeting that there's no cash available at the moment for something like this.
So it all boils down to a motorised wheelchair that can't cope with the terrain.Surely a better wheel chair is the answer.
In the promo video it shows a lady using their Tramper on the beach. I can guarantee she will get stuck in the sand. People are expecting to be able to do what the adverts show them.
Reality needs to kick in.
+1 zippykona
It appears the argument is that because this vehicle exists and is intended for a similar application, that the countryside should be adapted in order to allow it to be used in areas where it is not designed to be used.
I'd like to drive my Ford Focus over houndkirk moor. Please could it be tarmaced?
I'd like to drive my Ford Focus over houndkirk moor. Please could it be tarmaced?
No, you can get out and walk like most other able bodied people
Ha! Tell that to the convoy of quad bikes this morning.
The point is that it's the vehicle rather than the disability that seems to be deciding what the council do to the trail.
How do we know they won't bring out a #enduro tramper next year that can get up and down the steps with ease, rendering the repairs pointless?
Horses for courses as they say. This is the wrong course for that horse.
Agreed… a proper off-road mini vehicle is required. They must exist? If not, the world needs them.
The TRO for Chapelgate
If you are in a vehicle approved as an invalid carriage then you are ok to use
Peak Horsepower were also asked to respond officially to Derbyshire County Council's plans for Rushup Edge and have shared it with Peak District MTB. Added to the [url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/70-rushup-edge-our-official-response-to-derbyshire-county-council ]existing article[/url] on website or view it directly [url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/images/PDFs/PHP_Chapel_Gate_repair_response_to_DCC.pdf ]here[/url].
Have I entirely missed the point.... That reads to me like peak horsepower want the whole lot flattened as any other surface is dangerous to horses or carriages.
Whilst they agree that the current work is unsuitable they seem to advocate a soft, smooth, permanant surface, like the chapel gate track...... That's not ideal is it?????
Have I entirely missed the point.... That reads to me like peak horsepower want the whole lot flattened as any other surface is dangerous to horses or carriages.
Whilst they agree that the current work is unsuitable they seem to advocate a soft, smooth, permanant surface, like the chapel gate track...... That's not ideal is it?????
No, but you can't really fault Peak Horsepower for representing the interests of its members any more than you can the disabled rambler guys for sticking up for their's. I wonder how on earth you'd create a sustainable soft surface in what's basically a whopping great drainage trough.
And there seem to be a lot of unsupported assumptions about the original state of the track and whether exposed bedrock was part of it.
One thing that does seem mildly insane is the idea that DCC is responsible for the upkeep of the track because it's technically a road. But motorised traffic is now banned from it. You couldn't make it up.
That's a point I've made throughout john. They are applying a set of rules on the strength of technicality to force their plan through.
It's all mad. Like getting the SAS in because there's mouse in your back garden... 😉
For the route to be useable by horse-drawn carriages
Who has ever seen a horse drawn carriage on a BW in the Peak?
I have lived in Derbyshire all my life and in the Peak District for the last 13 years and the only horse and carriages I have seen were on the A6 near Bakewell never off road
Who has ever seen a horse drawn carriage on a BW in the Peak?
We moved our committee meetings to a new, more convenient [s]venue[/s] pub and were talking to the landlady about all this. Guess what...she was a carriage driver 🙂
She commented that she really doesn't have a huge choice of places to ride. Often she has right of way but is physically unable to get the carriage onto the route and ends up riding on the road. Maybe the reason that rare sightings of carriage drivers are on the road is [i]because[/i] they have so little choice to ride off-road.
So peak horsepower want to smooth the surface of the entire route? Mountain bikes will be going down it at light-speed, they are basically suggesting turning the peak district into a trail centre.
You know when that horse meat scandal came out, I wasn't really that bothered. Just saying like 😈
Just hope they berm the corners up a bit.
be afarid very afraid fo peak horsepower.. massive support/backing and its them first and blow everyone else..
Just a thought. Wheelchair users are allowed to use their electric conveyances on footpaths.
Should there be a programme of making rural footpaths accessible to them? It might mean removing stiles and such but why should they be restricted to bridle ways?
It's all gone quiet, any more news?
Most of the sunken road section is covered in snow currently as it's in the shade it's stayed on the ground.
No idea what the discussions have produced folate though
Mr Peter White, our friend at DCC, tells me that he is currently collating responses with the intention of passing his findings from consultation to the councillors in March.
Just a thought. Wheelchair users are allowed to use their electric conveyances on footpaths.
Should there be a programme of making rural footpaths accessible to them? It might mean removing stiles and such but why should they be restricted to bridle ways?
There is a lot of work to do this. Stiles can also be replaced with gates with radar keys (the type of key that also opens disabled toilets). Accessible Derbyshire are looking at which areas would be sensible to do things like that in Derbyshire. It's not just wheelchairs: think people with dodgy arms or legs, pushchairs, scooters, buggies don't like stiles either. There are plenty of places where this could be a great idea: think Longshaw estate, Curbar edge, Chatsworth. They also have ideas for Barbrook Valley but they've been up there recently and realised it's a bit wild for a lot of people with disabilities and are looking at getting people who are a bit more adventurous out there on trikes.
http://www.accessiblederbyshire.org
So Barbrook valley is a bit wild, but they're looking to make Rushup Edge accesible??
Just heard that notices have gone up on the bakewell golf course decent. Are we already defending this one?
? Whats happening to that descent?
[url= http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,25544.0.html ]http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,25544.0.html[/url]
BBC Countryfile Sunday, from the Peaks, items include 'making the countryside accessible for the disabled.'
Has anyone contacted pdmtb about it? Do we get to voice our opinion.
Literally just seen it in the TV mag. I don't recall any mention of anything Countryfile related anywhere, so I'm guessing it's just a one sided 'positive spin' piece.
http://ht.ly/M35IO @CraigGrimes
It's at Dove Stones. This doesn't look remotely controversial. PD MTB are actually forming great relations with Accessible Derbyshire, the local group: watch this space for more details later in the year...