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OK, New Year's Resolution firmly out the window (if it wasn't already), I'm gonna have a good rant on here...
Seriously, why are roadies (particularly road clubs) so full of themselves and so elitist and non inclusive?!?!
So... Confession time, I own a very nice road bike, I dress up in full lycra to ride it (though I am not a FPKW thank you very much!), I did Ride London recently and at 36, 5ft10 and 13st, I definitely fall into the "slightly overweight MAMIL" category when on a road bike rather than looking at all like I know what I'm doing, but whilst I won't be troubling BC any time soon I can more than hold my own for a fat(ish) lad.
Ride London... Did no training (no time, and it's just a few hours in the saddle after all and I've done that before!) and surprised myself turning up and doing it in 4hr37, a 21.6mph avg. Met a LOAD of overly serious wannabe racers on the way round though, most of them in their local club kit, most of them grumpy as f*** (if I spark up a conversation, and you can't even grumble back, then you're not doing yourself any favours!), but one guy took the biscuit... Me and my GF were riding at roughly the same pace as about 6 guys all in their "team" kit, after doing my bit on the front I tried to get into the line, to be greeted by this guy trying to knock me off my bike. After 30 seconds or so of me standing my ground, he proceeded to tell me to f off and ask me "who the f do you think you are, can't you see we're riding as a group"... My point was we were all travelling at the same speed, there was about 4 or 5 others in the group that weren't in their "team" and that as I was doing more than my fair share on the front why should I not be able to ride with their group. He proceeded to call me all sorts of names. So I just dropped the lot of them at the next climb and didn't see any of them again, but it left a very sour taste.
Fast Forward to today. GF and I have been on holiday for a few days, got both our MTB's and road bikes with us and taken in a few nice rides so far. Looking for inspiration, we contact both the local road and MTB clubs for inspiration and to see if we could tag along... You can see where this is going!
Local MTB club website has the ride leader's phone number listed, so we give him a call... Long and the short of it is he's extremely friendly, has invited us out on their ride tomorrow morning, and is more concerned about slowing us down than us gatecrashing their weekly jaunt. We were at pains to explain we were just visiting the area and won't be back next week, and his attitude was "the more the merrier". Really looking forward to the ride now even if it is just a low paced social one.
Local Road club lists facebook as best point of contact, so we send a message asking about their mid week "fast" group ride (they call it a chain gang but by all accounts its not) asking if it would be OK to come along. The initial response was that they wouldn't normally allow anyone who isn't a member to come, but "after consultation with the committe" we could allow the 2 of you to come along if you pay to join as a member (£15) up front to cover their insurance requirements. We then responded, apologising as we should probably have stated that we were already BC members (and therefore fully insured, and quoted our membership numbers) and that we're both very experienced cyclists, members of our local club, both did Ride London recently in more than respectable times and that we were happy if for whatever reason that we couldn't keep up to look after ourselves and find our own way home... The response was along the lines of "having consulted with our committe again, can I ask you both please not to come on our ride tonight as we have decided we are keeping it for members only."
Seriously? WTF!?!? This is cycling, not Golf! They were more than happy for us to join their ride if we ponied up £15 each for the privilege of their company for 90mins, but having demonstrated we already have the level of insurance to cover us to ride with them anyway as a one off they gave us the royal F.You and told us not to come! I really don't get this at all, it sends out totally the wrong message. Don't get me wrong I've had people asking me to join our Thursday night fast group ride, and I've had to politely suggest that it might be a bit too quick for them just yet (we tend to avg 19-20mph over 30 miles) but if they don't mind finding their own way home if they get dropped then the more the merrier. Sometimes it's not easy, but I'm never rude and I try to be as inclusive as I possibly can be. Is that just cos I'm a mountain biker that rides a road bike from time to time though, cos my local road club (that I'm also a member of) is mostly a bunch of miserable see you next tuesday's that couldn't even musted a grunt once in a while if you turn up for a ride with them! For balance, I can think of only one MTB ride in 20 years of riding offroad where I've ridden with a group that I didn't know previously and been made to feel anything other than entirely welcome. This forum is always full of people offering to show others round their local trails on various threads too, which leads me to conclude that those of us that prefer to ride the knobbly tyre are intrinsically far more social and inclusive creatures, and those that prefer the skinnies are all a bunch of miserable gits!
Discuss...
Popcorn anyone?
This thread smells of cabbage
Discuss
Why?
Seems you've already made you're mind up.
If it upsets you that much just walk away, it's not really that hard now is it...
Yep your probably right just send me your road bike and stick to the mtbing.
What did your Golden Ferret make of it all?
🙂
Surreal
I enjoy riding my road bike - mainly by myself, sometimes with a couple of mates. I have no intention of joining any road club
Sounds like you've just bumped into a few bellends recently, tbh. I've rode with very friendly and accommodating road clubs. And I've encountered people that I've wanted to punch in the face on MTBs. It's got nothing to do with that bikes they ride. Just the diversity of folk.
Insurance required to ride a bike? I did not know that.
I'm going out for a ride tomorrow around the FoD, no insurance, I'll have to stay off the roads to avoid being caught.
Every MTB ride for me is solo because I can't stand the company of other people. Does this help? 🙂
I've consulted the committee and I have to tell you that on this occasion, your rant has not been rated particularly highly.
Roadie club riding is far more disciplined when actually out on a ride (because for the most part it works towards the safety of the group when they are in the zone ) and I think that rule adherence spills over beyond the ride itself and into the group personality . . . . Hence they can become stuffy and less open.
Mtb group riding is far less disciplined when in the zone . . . It's your line to pick and ride . . . And that freeness spills out to the group personality and being more welcoming.
I did notice the other day that when out on the road bike, other roadies came across as miserable b's not even acknowledging you, yet when out on the mtb, others were far more friendly.
There's an old Chinese proverb: "Near to rivers, we recognize fish, near to mountains, we recognize the songs of birds. It is very important to make on-the-spot investigations."
[quote=DavidBelstein ]I've consulted the committee and I have to tell you that on this occasion, your rant has not been rated particularly highly.
You must have left before the end, when we agreed that if he paid us £15 we'd give it a 5* rating
I was once ambushed by a stereotype,it was horrible,they smelt of dispair.
"who the f do you think you are, can't you see we're riding as a group"..
The correct response to this is:
"Don't be a dick mate", join the back of the group then stay there.
I can kind of see where the club is coming from though. Something goes wrong, it's a club run, club gets sued as it's an easy target, added complication of non club members on the ride. Should be OK as you are BC members but i can see why a club might be hesitant. Shame really that clubs have to worry about this sort of thing.
can you name the club in RideLondon and the local club you tried to join the ride of?
Hang on....
is "fattish"?5ft10 and 13st
Insurance required to ride a bike? I did not know that.
In organised groups, it's expected to be fair. But having met the criteria, to be told "it's ok if you pay the £15 to join, but even though you have the right level of cover anyway, you can't ride with us cos we're a bunch of elitist pricks anyway" really put my back up. The irony is I just went on Strava, found their ride from this evening, and it was up and down a stretch of flat road repeatedly at about 19mph avg!!! Maybe they did us a favour... Would be upset if the GF and I couldn't avg 23mph up and down that stretch of road working together.
Sounds like you've just bumped into a few bellends recently
This isn't just recently. This was the straw that broke the camels back! Yes, I've come across exceptions to the rule, but in general, the seasoned roadies (and especially those in long established clubs) are especially antisocial and go out of their way to stifle any new riders joining them. I run my own shop and have sent lots of riders to our local club to join their rides, most have come back and told me they won't be joining them again as they made them feel most unwelcome, which is the absolute antithesis of what I go out of my way to achieve as a bike shop owner!
I enjoy riding my road bike - mainly by myself, sometimes with a couple of mates. I have no intention of joining any road club
I've got a number of customers just like yourself, and all of them a lot more sociable than the local road club members!
Seems you've already made you're mind up.
If it upsets you that much just walk away, it's not really that hard now is it...
I have always been a mountain biker first and foremost, but for various reasons over the last few years, I've done more and more road riding. We have a good social scene based around our shop, with 2 weekly rides out, and it's all good. But it seems if you make it a club, add a committee, decide on an agenda and how you're going to achieve it that, well... Everybody gets pretentions of grandeur and acts like they're some kind of goes on the local scene! Last Thursday, us bunch of rag tag riders on our normal Thursday night bash smashed past one local group on their "chain gang" ride, they couldn't keep up even though we weren't even really trying, yet to ride with those guys you have to be invited before then buying the right kit to show allegiance to their group every time you ride! I just don't get it...
As for the riders at Ride London, there are dicks everywhere on all sorts of bikes. E.g. Mtb riders shouting at other riders at trail centres because they got in the way of their Strava charge.
I just love that you dropped your girlfriend on a climb to try and put the guys in their place.
Also
I've had people asking me to join our Thursday night fast group ride, and I've had to politely suggest that it might be a bit too quick for them just yet (we tend to avg 19-20mph over 30 miles)
So not actually a fast group then?
The correct response to this is:
"Don't be a dick mate", join the back of the group then stay there.
I said exactly that to him with "all your life" on the end, joined the back, then 3 miles later destroyed them on the next climb!
Roadie club riding is far more disciplined when actually out on a ride (because for the most part it works towards the safety of the group when they are in the zone ) and I think that rule adherence spills over beyond the ride itself and into the group personality . . . . Hence they can become stuffy and less open.
I get this... You don't want to end up herding sheep if you're trying to do a 20mph avg for sure. But... They were happy enough for us to join them if we paid £15 each there and then. The "give us your money and you can ride" attitude, despite us presenting the facts to them (insurance cover already up to scratch, more than capable riders and happy to do our bit on the front etc.) was what got me angry! It should never be about the money, especially not 15 measly quid...
You must have left before the end, when we agreed that if he paid us £15 we'd give it a 5* rating
Genuine 😆
RideLondon and the local club you tried to join the ride of?
I'd like to tell you my memory is that good, but it's not. At a guess from the accents somewhere in Hertfordshire/Essex but I'm probably wrong.
Hang on....
5ft10 and 13st
is "fattish"?
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you have any ambitions as a cyclist, then yes it is I'm afraid! I know cos I am said demographic...
It's not life's rich tapestry, it's life's dull rug.
I just love that you dropped your girlfriend on a climb to try and put the guys in their place.
What is it they say about the word "assume"? It makes an ass out of you and me! 😉
Don't fill the gaps with your own assumptions. My GF is a stronger rider than me on the road, she was 20 yards ahead of me and I was doing all I could not to lose her up the climb!
So not actually a fast group then?
Quite... But in the context of our other group (that does 15/16 avg) the 19/20 avg group is the fast one. I have no illusions of grandeur...
My MTB group has a public Facebook page and a whatsapp group open to anyone who comes back a second time!. No club, meetings, rules (actually, first one to the pub gets the beers in!) or bullshit. Rock up at Robertsbridge station at 7PM on a Tuesday night and everyone is welcome!
you can't ride with us cos we're a bunch of elitist pricks anyway" really put my back up. The irony is I just went on Strava, found their ride from this evening, and it was up and down a stretch of flat road repeatedly at about 19mph avg!!! Maybe they did us a favour... Would be upset if the GF and I couldn't avg 23mph up and down that stretch of road working together.
I said exactly that to him with "all your life" on the end, joined the back, then 3 miles later destroyed them on the next climb!
Everybody gets pretentions of grandeur and acts like they're some kind of goes on the local scene! Last Thursday, us bunch of rag tag riders on our normal Thursday night bash smashed past one local group on their "chain gang" ride, they couldn't keep up even though we weren't even really trying
*Swoons* Not bad for such a fat Fred who can't even drop his GF like a pro 😉 🙂 Maybe you should do a proper race some time 😉
I have no illusions of grandeur...
Oh ok. 0/10 for the [s]rant[/s] troll
*Swoons* Not bad for such a fat Fred who can't even drop his GF like a pro Maybe you should do a proper race some time
What gives you the impression I'm in the slightest bit inclined to race, or that I have any pretensions thus?
Just curious, cos it seems to me that it's always those with delusions of grandeur and aspirations (of racing) above their station that are the ones busy looking down their noses at everyone else on group road rides!
Take it from me, someone who makes a living out of selling bikes, I'm about as all inclusive as I possibly can be! As long as we're all riding bikes and having fun, where's the issue? Seems that guys like yourself derive great pleasure from trying to drive the wedge into the social situation that is a group ride... Big Fish, small pond maybe? 🙄
My MTB group has a public Facebook page and a whatsapp group open to anyone who comes back a second time!. No club, meetings, rules (actually, first one to the pub gets the beers in!) or bullshit. Rock up at Robertsbridge station at 7PM on a Tuesday night and everyone is welcome!
This works perfectly well for informal groups, and it's how we manage our shop rides... The moment you add the "club" aspect into it, and membership etc. it becomes a lot more complicated. I fully understand that though, and had done everything to mitigate any issues we may have by riding with this club for a one off ride. But it seems they were only happy if they took our money, despite it not being necessary!
FWIW, I manage our shop rides excatly the way you do. A public facebook group that anyone can opt into or out of and that everybody gets the invite to. I make it as self selecting as possible by making sure the distance and average pace expected are displayed in bold, not to be rude but so that those who obviously wouldn't keep up or would be held up by the group understand that it's probably not the ride for them.
Maybe sarcasm and light hearted comments don't come across over the interwebz 🙂 I was making reference to your constant blabbing about how rad you are on the bike by managing to be faster than people who weren't aware they were supposed to be racing you... and in my defence you did already refer to yourself as an overweight MAMIL 🙂 If the irony of belittling those riders with your awsums while claiming to be all about inclusivity is lost on you then maybe it wasn't just a troll after all 🙂 Happy Trails!
I was making reference to your constant blabbing about how rad you are on the bike by managing to be faster than people who weren't aware they were supposed to be racing you...
You've lost my point. That being that I keep coming across people/groups taking themselves very seriously, worried that others may either spoil their ride and/or get in their way and/or slow them down. More often than not, they're nowhere near as quick as they think they are. Especially not if an overweight MAMIL such as myself is quicker than them, when in the grand scheme of things I realise that I'm distinctly average at best. I'll ride with anyone, slow or fast, old or young, fit or unfit, as long as they're smiling and enjoying what they're doing and not doing anyone else any harm, I couldn't care less! I do take umbrage with those taking everything far too seriously and/or going out of their way to exclude others from joining in the fun!
The main problem with clubs is it tends to attract people who are not very good at making friends...
4/10 - not enough use of shouty capitals! 😀
Got bored reading opening post, can anyone summarise?
Summary
Grumpy Roadies in being Grumpy Shocker
Roadies then explaining they are not Grumpy and that it's probably other roadies/OP's fault
Grumpy
Say what you like about mboy's threads, you can't accuse him of providing insufficient information.
🙂
Should have turned up to their club ride anyway, on a fat bike.
I did a similar ride London time to you.
Don't really feel that qualifies me to turn up to some club's "fast ride" and just join in.
Although, I would have just found a route, and ridden it, but then I am a social leper.
I recall my son once coming home most upset because the big boys wouldnt play with him.
In all fairness when I lived in that London I joined up with a cycling club to have something to do in the evenings when I was there.
Irrespective of ability you started in their inters ride and the ride leader assessed you from there and if you were good enough, could through & off properly etc you could move to the fast group; now they were proper fast.
The inters chugged along at 19-20mph and the fast group knocked on mid 20's for 2 hours at a time.
I also used to participate in a shop mtb ride back ooop norf and somehow inherited the somewhat dubious pleasure of leading the fast group, mainly due to knowing the trails and being quite nippy on the dirt.
We used to get noobs rock up giving it the big 'yeah I can ride with you guys easy' often responded to with 'have you ever ridden here before?' and more often than not the answer was no.
9 times out of ten that'd get dropped within 15 mins and then go complaining to the shop owner that the faSt ride was too fast, seriously!!
Ultimately I can't be bothered with organised group rides really if I'm honest. Big group rides o the roads round here aren't the best idea as there's a lot of tight country lanes and having been ridiculed (by a couple of regulars on non-rigid, non 29ers) for arriving on a rigid 29er in the middle of winter for a forest based group ride I gave up with that too.
This thread is a swoonfest...
i ride solo as I found other people regardless of bike preference are mostly a bunch of ****s.
Local bike shop does a shop ride and has three groups, they advertise average speed expectations and the race group states you will be dropped if you can't keep up. The other two groups have different average speed\distance expectations. They don't expect beginners to keep up with the fastest, they expect them to join the beginners on intermediate group.
My experience of roadies is that they are better than mountain bikers for being inclusive as they set the expectation for the group. Also roadies generally say hello and communicating when overtaking, rather than the Santa Cruz approach of buzzing your back wheel until the rider in front panics and falls off.
Mountain bikers can be way more snooty than roadies, been on "social" rides where it's been made clear I wasn't good enough or fast enough and was just holding people back.
Also roadies generally say hello and communicating when overtaking, rather than the Santa Cruz approach of buzzing your back wheel until the rider in front panics and falls off.
Does that actually happen? I've (SC owner) never buzzed a tyre apart from a few good mates who know it's me, and will always back off or self seed or leave a gap at the start of singletrack.
Roadies on the other hand in some of the events I've done (and on the road in general while riding uphill on MTB's) will just cruise on past inches from your shoulder trying there best to avoid making any kind of contact at all.
Did one local group ride and decided that the number of ego's in the group meant it was pointless and a great way to get hurt with the trains through lights and lack of awareness. Much prefer solo road riding these days or road rides with mountain bikers.
found their ride from this evening, and it was up and down a stretch of flat road repeatedly at about 19mph avg!!! Maybe they did us a favour... Would be upset if the GF and I couldn't avg 23mph up and down that stretch of road working together
Stalking up on their Strava and saying that riding that slow would be upsetting, that is obsessive, elitist, egotistical roadie behaviour don't you know 🙂
In MTB one prat joining in a group ride is likely to crash into a tree and provide group amusement. Conversely that one prat joining in a group ride is likely to cause a pileup which is injurious and expensive to the group. So to a certain extent road clubs do have to be more careful about insurance and experience etc.
However, I do have to agree that I tend to get more bad vibes from road riders than MTB. Maybe because people roadie types can get so obsessed and egotistical about speed, they want to rub it in your face when overtaking you, or get defensive when overtaken, or upset when a particular group ride is less than 70% of their FTP or whatever.