[Closed] 'Right to Roam' legislation for Wales.

It'll open up some sweet mountains, which can only be good news.

that's something to smile about. Large parts of Wales are very short of bridleways.

Ohhhhhh cool 🙂

Meanwhile in England we'll just continue ignoring the rules anyway :p

YES!

FAN BLOODY TASTIC!

That makes me so frigging happy! Plenty of new trails right by my door will open up, along with making loads and loads of Valleys stuff a lot more feasible 🙂

This is properly brilliant news 🙂 Can they get it in in time for my big ride on Saturday?

Based on walking/riding in Scotland, the only downside is that when the OS removes the footpaths/bridleway notation of its maps and just leave dotted lines - you'll have no idea whether the route actually exists...

I did loads of hike-a-bike on Tuesday evening, on non-existing routes that were on the map 😐

It will hopefully provide yet more examples of "Oh look, and its all fine" and England will eventually, finally change their access laws. But not anytime soon I suspect.

It's not like Scotland to be leading the way. 😉

Absolutely fracking brilliant! Not just good for outdoor users, but local businesses too.

Sounds good to me as unclehomered said it will be a good example go point to

B r have you tried think its called wheresmypath you get os map and googlesat view side by side great for seeing whats on the ground fhink there is a more reliable similar site

b r - Member
Based on walking/riding in Scotland, the only downside is that when the OS removes the footpaths/bridleway notation of its maps and just leave dotted lines - you'll have no idea whether the route actually exists...

I did loads of hike-a-bike on Tuesday evening, on non-existing routes that were on the map

This.

Will that have any effect on the 'summer bike ban' on Snowdon?

It's not like Scotland to be leading the way.

Yeh, what have the Scots ever done for us, apart from;

Macadamised roads
The pedal bicycle
The pneumatic tyre
Tubular steel
Wire rope
The telephone
Television
Insulin
Penicillin
General anaesthetic
The refrigerator
The flush toilet
Chris Hoy
Danny McAskil
Graeme Obree

And a whole bunch of other stuff 🙂

[i]General anaesthetic[/i]

was he in charge at Culloden?

I can't find a link to the source information regarding this revelation. Had a look on the NRW website but I can't find it. I'm not disputing the claim; I hope it's true but I'd have thought there would be something on the NRW site?

you could try tweeting Carlton and see if he's prepared to say but it may be 'unattributable'?

Cool. ROW are seriously lacking in Wales.

But... nobody gives a monkeys anyway, so it doesn't really make any odds. Good to see though.

Will that have any effect on the 'summer bike ban' on Snowdon?

Probably not,

a) it's voulentary rather than a bylaw or Traffic Restriction Order, you caould ride it and not break any laws, but that'd probably mean they'd make it a legal ban which would be worse for everyone.
b) Snowdon's a unique case as it's a honeypot by virtue of being the highest in England and Wales, Ben Nevis doesn't get the same trafic as it's more remote. There are plenty of more technical trails with similar vertical drops you could ride, but everyone want's to ride Snowdon, the daytime ban just naturaly limits it to those who really want to ride Snowdon, stopping it from becomeing as busy as a trail center on a Sunday afternoon.

Snowdon's a unique case as it's a honeypot by virtue of being the highest in England and Wales, Ben Nevis doesn't get the same trafic as it's more remote. There are plenty of more technical trails with similar vertical drops you could ride, but everyone want's to ride Snowdon, the daytime ban just naturaly limits it to those who really want to ride Snowdon, stopping it from becomeing as busy as a trail center on a Sunday afternoon.

I don't think without the ban there'd be a risk of Snowdon becoming like CyB on a saturday. Everyone knows Snowdon is a serious undertaking and most people think that you'd have to be mad to ride it.
The fact that you can ride it at all means that it won't change under the proposed developments thus the Voluntary ban would remain the same regardless.

Aah, thought as much really, ta.

you'll have no idea whether the route actually exists...

You don't now! There are loads of bridleways that are nothing (rode one yesterday in fact), and even more footpaths.

Re Snowdon - it's already a bridleway, hence legal, but:

There are plenty of more technical trails with similar vertical drops you could ride

Such as? Please share.. 🙂 I don't know of many.

[i]B r have you tried think its called wheresmypath you get os map and googlesat view side by side great for seeing whats on the ground fhink there is a more reliable similar site [/i]

Yep, but hopeless for trees/forest cover.

Also www.bikehike.co.uk.

I'm well versed in those sites as I'm happy to just explore.

That is a fantastic development if it happens.

How soon before Chris Akrigg rides down Crib Goch? 🙂

I doubt this'll make any difference to me, but it's still great news and hopefully will help nudge england along in the same direction.

Great news!

b r - Member
Based on walking/riding in Scotland, the only downside is that when the OS removes the footpaths/bridleway notation of its maps and just leave dotted lines - you'll have no idea whether the route actually exists...

I did loads of hike-a-bike on Tuesday evening, on non-existing routes that were on the map

Plenty of BWs in Wales aren't actual tracks on the ground for example:

[img] [/img]

First I've heard about it! Great news indeed.

I'm not quite sure what consultation there would need to be - NRW like their steering groups and committees - but I'd imagine that it would take something like ~18 months to get enacted when passed. As for funding / access infrastructure / etc, it'd be simple enough to sort that out afterwards (replace stiles with wide kissing gates for example, and leaving surfaces unless really bad as is).

The only sticking point I see would be with potential damage to SSSI's / rare species / etc, which could be mitigated by linear access around sensitive areas.

That Ceredigion notice is interesting; like Aidan says, to me it looks like there is a RoW across fairly dangerous / boggy land with no physical indication on the ground. As they can't say "dangerous path ahead, route unclear" they cover themselves by saying words to the effect of "historic maps say there is a path here, the route on the ground isn't clear, its dangerous, so use it at your own risk."

The only sticking point I see would be with potential damage to SSSI's / rare species / etc, which could be mitigated by linear access around sensitive areas.

There is already plenty of open access land that is SSSI etc so I don't think it raises anything particularly new there.

e.g. Cwm Idwal is a particularly sensitive area and you can pretty much walk where ever you want. the only thing you can't do there is wild camp but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

As for funding / access infrastructure / etc

Would any be required? I can't imagine anyone would ask for anything more than to not be a criminal. I'll cross fences and whatnot my own way, and I'll accept responsibility if I break it.

I'd also happily accept restrictions for SSSIs in return for everything else.

I wonder if this will include wild camping too?

it'd be simple enough to sort that out afterwards (replace stiles with wide kissing gates for example, and leaving surfaces unless really bad as is).

Presumably a footpath would still be a footpath and a bridleway still a bridleway, we'd just be allowed to ride on footpaths, whereas on BW's there'd be an expectation that it was actualy passable by bike/horse.

If you get proper right to roam legislation, you don't have to worry about whether there is a path or not, just do it.

Common sense and good manners are all you need.

Yep. In Scandinavia, you can go wherever you want, as long as it's not under crops, a garden, and/or you don't break anything or put anyone out of pocket. It is codified fairly robustly I think.

I think the main changes would be that you can use farm tracks or private roads, and trails in private woodland. Also you'd be able to walk the trails made by people walking over to see notable locations like river banks, lake beaches, etc. It's possibly even better news for rock climbers actually.

Brilliant news!, I just hope people don't start losing common sense on shared trails, as it will only make people that 'dislike' us bikers, dislike us even more.

molgrips - Member

Yep. In Scandinavia, you can...

don't know about the other countries, but in sweden they've got something called something like 'allesmannesritten' (or something).

my understanding of it is: you can pretty go where you want, as long as you're not a dick about it.

Wales Environment Minister is expected to announce Scottish-style access legislation for Wales. [b]UPDATE: no, says his press officer
[/b]

🙁

Update is announcement will not be made on Monday.

We're trying to find out some insider info from our 'mole', news here when we get it...

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/scottish-style-right-to-roam-coming-to-wales-england-next/

ahwiles - Member
my understanding of it is: you can pretty go where you want, as long as you're not a dick about it.

The beauty is this works far better than a load of restrictive legislation.

Result ! Come on !

Someone says RoW are in short supply in Wales.
Look at a map, 😆 its bloody loaded.
Nice to see all the one sided arguments coming out.
Then again it would be unlikely to be otherwise I suppose here.

[i]Presumably a footpath would still be a footpath and a bridleway still a bridleway, we'd just be allowed to ride on footpaths, whereas on BW's there'd be an expectation that it was actualy passable by bike/horse. [/i]

Not in Scotland. Open access to all (walk, horse, cycle) - but until you do it you've no idea as to whether it's passable, and/or gated. So fine for walking and MTBing (in that you can lift a bike over pretty much anything), but for horses you often needed a reccy.

And above. Many people are complete dicks.

Complete dicks will be complete dicks anyway. People still break fences, leave gates open, scare sheep etc. They will still be legislated against, but of course that's next to impossible to police, as now.

I can't see a downside to this, really. I think there's very little that's worth riding or walking on that will become open, as far as I can tell.

Will this open up the wales coast path for official riding??

I think there's very little that's worth riding or walking on that will become open, as far as I can tell.

It's a bit different in North Wales. While we do well for trail centres and purpose-developed trails, we're thin on the ground for legitimate BW. In time this change should make a significant difference, possibly pulling people away from the Llanberis/Betws honeypots and away to other areas that would benefit from mtb tourism and broader recognition for being 'outdoorsy' places. Excellent news 😀

I should clarify.. I meant there is little that will become open that is currently private. The opening of FPs to bikes will be fantastic, and be the highest thing for us.

I hope it also legalises rough camping.

I am still quite skeptical about the whole thing. is it actually going to happen or is it a soundbite from an AM to p1ss off Parliament?