[Closed] Red light jumping or not ?

[quote=simmy ]moving away from lights just before they turn to green, ......would this be as frowned upon as just jumping the lights anyway ?
You need to ask?

Am not a 'road rider' although I do ride on roads, no problem with jumping red lights, self preservation and all that.

Everyone does it, try to worry less about what other people think. A check over your shoulder for fluorescent coloured cars before manouvering will suit.

no problem with jumping red lights, self preservation and all that.

Wait, what?

Everyone does it

No they don't.

By everyone I mean me.

depends on the lights and the time of day

At 6 in the morning i have no issues doing it outside work but always check for traffic during the day there isnt a chance i' even try around my way.its easier to filter to the front and get of the line with the traffic,use the space I need and ignore the cars that think I'm a pratt oncethings have got going isimply move to the side to let traffic pass.

I do.

At 6:30 am, with 1 km visibility in all directions, I'm not going to sit there waiting for the lights to change.

As noted last week; a Dutch traffic chappie said that people jumping red lights is an indication that the junction design is crap, and I wholeheartedly agree.

Traffic lights are for drivers who are in need of assistance to drive properly...

Darwin ?

I think it's ok for cars and trucks to try running lights just as they are turning to red, jees if they are lucky they might even miss the idiot cyclist who has set off before the lights have gone green.

So long as you're happy with it and feel you're doing it safely, crack on.

Go for it. Can'y say I'll have any sympathy if you get clobbered.

Please don't do it. It gives drivers another excuse to say we are law breaking idiots clearly unaware of their own kinds lawlessness.

Round here jumping a red green transition would be a death sentence. Round here red means stop after another 20 seconds. I have say at green lights watching a stream of cars still turning right across my path against a red light.

I genuinely don't get the reason for it. Though I accept I may just be lucky with the traffic lights on my commute. I just occupy the same space a car would, wait the same as a car and accelerate the same as a car. Always feels safe to me.
Last week I saw a cyclist filtered up the inside of three lanes of traffic, stop ahead of the stop line, jumped the lights before they changed then proceeded to veer across the three lanes of traffic as it all accelerated off. All he had to do was get in the right lane in the first place if he was concerned about his safety.

Don't be an AMBLER GAMBLER!

(in all honesty, sometimes i set up slightly before the lights change, but most of the time i don't)

Do not move till the light changes , riding a bike does not give you an exsuse to brake the law

RLJ'ing may be justifiable to yourself, I see the points and don't necessarily disagree, but on balance the arguments for it are pretty lame. Most drivers don't get it, don't care or even use it to justify their own poor attitude towards us. It reflects badly on all of us. It's inconsiderate for that reason, imo. Red lights are for 'traffic' - if you want to be taken seriously or given respect as legitimate traffic, stop at a red light.

I still haven't heard a convincing argument for jumping lights.

At 6:30 am, with 1 km visibility in all directions, I'm not going to sit there waiting for the lights to change.

Do not move till the light changes , riding a bike does not give you an exsuse to brake the law

This ^

I once jumped a red light to get onto one of the busiest roundabouts in Sheffield before the cars. There were no pedestrians anywhere near the crossing. The police officer coming behind on his motorbike didn't agree with the "self-preservation" excuse and I got a £15-£20 fine.

Lesson learned

Yeah, sure. As long as you are happy for other road users (cars, lorries, buses etc.) to do it then why not? One rule for all is the only way.

I come across lights that are on sensors and do not react to me in the early morning so I have no choice but to jump the lights!.Used to run reds all the time on the post bike we are allowed delivering Queenies Mail:-)

Looking at the lights and pre-empting the sequence means you aren't looking to see if some moron has ran the opposing red who will no doubt be bigger, heavier an moving quicker than you.

Please don't. First you could get killed, second it's a really bad example. Yep it's frustrating waiting for lights sometimes and they might be a crap design but it's what we have right now.

Hang on a minute. Loads of idignation here about how jumping red lights is illegal but there was a thread last week where riding on the pavement was condoned, nay encouraged, by all except me. Why is one form of law breaking worse than another?
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IMHO riding on the pavement is far worse than jumping the lights, the latter generally only endangers the rider, the former many other people.

The main reason that I don't is because it annoys the hell out of drivers, me included, and I don't drive much.
If I'm sat at the lights on my bike and you go through them on red, the car behind me with the annoyed driver in will have to get past me first. I don't want an irate driver trying to get past me.
By going through red lights you're putting all other cyclists in danger.
In a country with growth in cycling we need to do everything we can to make friends with other road users.
If people perceive that cyclists just go through red lights all the time, then that's what we all do. Perception is reality.

I think it's ok for cars and trucks to try running lights just as they are turning to red, jees if they are lucky they might even miss the idiot cyclist who has set off before the lights have gone green.

Let's remember here that many places have legalised turning left at red lights on a bicycle for the exact reasons the OP states (or right depending which side of the road they drive on). Other places are adopting advanced green lights to give cyclists a head start on the motor traffic, again for the exact same reason the OP states. The advanced stop lines that we're all used to are there for similar reasons.

Could it not be that the 'idiot cyclists' are onto something?

More than once I've had drivers try to turn left over the top of me at junctions when I was going straight on...

Hang on a minute. Loads of idignation here about how jumping red lights is illegal but there was a thread last week where riding on the pavement was condoned, nay encouraged, by all except me. Why is one form of law breaking worse than another?

Because you're in your rightful place, not holding anyone up. Obviously. 🙄

I just think of the interval training that red lights provide.

If car drivers get annoyed at bikes going through red lights that's their problem not mine. I think red lights should mean give way rather than stop for cyclists and so that's the rule I follow. If enough people feel a law isn't right it's a legitimate form of protest to break it en masse. I'm more than happy to just pay the £20 fine to any policeman that disagrees, but that has yet to happen in 1000s of red lights jumped which makes me think they take it about as seriously as I do

Could it not be that the 'idiot cyclists' are onto something?

possibly, but at the moment, they are not the rules. and it's not just about breaking the rules, it's about everybody understanding the rules. each group of road users needs to understand which rules to follow. if you want to change those rules, idly going through red lights because you can't be arsed stopping isn't the right way to go about it.

If car drivers get annoyed at bikes going through red lights that's their problem not mine

read my post. it's not just his problem, it's my problem too as a cyclist sharing the road with him, and it will be your problem when some car driver gets annoyed with you and does something they regret because you've agrieved them.
give me a good reason why you need to go through red lights.

possibly, but at the moment, they are not the rules. and it's not just about breaking the rules, it's about everybody understanding the rules. each group of road users needs to understand which rules to follow. if you want to change those rules, idly going through red lights because you can't be arsed stopping isn't the right way to go about it.

I'm more concerned with staying alive than keeping to a set of rules designed around a completely different form of transport.

..they're a set of rules designed around [u]all[/u] transport - to stop people crossing paths at 20+mph! But it's your call - your risk and all of our reputations.

..they're a set of rules designed around all transport - to stop people crossing paths at 20+mph! But it's your call - your risk and all of our reputations.

You've never crossed the road before the green man?

I've never noticed it before the weekend but twice in the last 3 days I've seen roadies (all the kit etc) not even slowing for lights - going through on reds where they've been going straight on (so not having to cross traffic, turn right etc).

Either way, they're doing themselves zero favours with other road users.

Let's remember here that many places have legalised turning left at red lights on a bicycle for the exact reasons the OP states (or right depending which side of the road they drive on). Other places are adopting advanced green lights to give cyclists a head start on the motor traffic, again for the exact same reason the OP states. The advanced stop lines that we're all used to are there for similar reasons.

Could it not be that the 'idiot cyclists' are onto something?

Part of the problem that the general public / car drivers have with cyclists is their perceived self-righteous / holier-than-thou attitude. Commuters especially are saving money, keeping fit and saving the environment compared to car drivers, who know this and find it faintly irritating. Add in some self-righteous tool that thinks the rules of the road don't apply and it just creates friction. And friction is no good for your self-preservation argument.

You've never crossed the road before the green man?

The law isn't an option you know? And who's to guarantee that every time you run a red light, you've spotted all the hazards? In the last 3 weeks I've seen 2 cyclist run red lights and nearly get killed by traffic coming through on a green and not expecting anyone to be there.

How do you think your friends and family will feel standing around at your funeral or hospital bedside, either getting yourself killed or nearly killed for the sake of a few seconds.

Or the legal bill if you cause an accident...

And thanks for giving the haters the ammunition to justify their prejudices. Yes, thanks very much for that one... makes my riding just that little more likely to end in an ambulance

I'm in the no [b]crossing[/b] junctions when on red camp but I'm in the clip in a few seconds early (assuming you know the sequence) and slowly trackstand/ roll forwards a yard or two over the line, ahead of the cars, ready to do a Chris Hoy at the first flicker of green camp.

Let's remember here that many places have legalised turning left at red lights on a bicycle for the exact reasons the OP states

In the UK? We are talking about the UK right?

IMHO riding on the pavement is far worse than jumping the lights, the latter generally only endangers the rider, the former many other people.

If you are riding on the pavement like a knob going for your own KOM then yes, I couldn't agree more. Considerate riding on a wide pavement where riding on the road could present risk to the rider or indeed endanger life is another kettle of lobsters.

#edit:

And thanks for giving the haters the ammunition to justify their prejudices. Yes, thanks very much for that one... makes my riding just that little more likely to end in an ambulance

This.

I watch the sequence, wait for the stream of cars the other way to stop jumping the red then turn right across two lanes of traffic using the rljing cars as a shield.

I definitely cross the junction on green but the pedestrians get a shock as they're waiting to cross after the last rljing car from the other direction!

The law isn't an option you know?

Well then, someone needs to get this message out there. Because every morning on my drive to work [i]everyone[/i] seems to be travelling at 45mph in 30 zones. They even flash each other to warn when speed cameras are out. They endorse each others criminality.

But it's OK to criticise because a cyclist bends the rules for their own safety (which is what the original post is about)?

Give over.

Because every morning on my drive to work everyone seems to be travelling at 45mph in 30 zones.

I'm not seeing this so much any more. It's my perception that your average driver is getting closer to following the urban speed limit rules these days. Still the usual one off tools but the general motorists are better at speed control than 20 years ago.

And the average RLJing cyclist has come from the same mould as the speeding motorist (after all we are all people first and foremost) - it's nothing to do with safety and everything to do with not being arsed with slowing down and speeding up!

And thanks for giving the haters the ammunition to justify their prejudices. Yes, thanks very much for that one... makes my riding just that little more likely to end in an ambulance

What a load of shite.

Just don't get the safety thing myself, as someone who does a lot of road riding, often in London.

If you want to do it you carry on, don't try and justify it though. Everyone thinks you're a dick, and I'll have no sympathy when you get taken out by a car.