[Closed] Race Phototraphers? Yeah. OK....

Well done to the Photo-It guy for giving a good explanation and not biting 🙂

Its also him in the shots, 'this is me at the beginning' and 'this is me at the end'. Narrative shots, he's not tryign to sell them to nayone, they're just narrative shots, which are still more interesting than boring 'head on shots'.

Lovely Mather BTW Graham.

As for 'depends how committed you were at that point', heh! I was far more committed on the little descent just before that spot, than I am on a flat lame bit of track, and where I was pushign it, at that point I was usually bottlenecked behind bimblers at that point ... the better place for 'committment' would be lactate alley on the drag to the hairpin 200 yrds later on ...

Narrative shots, he's not tryign to sell them to nayone, they're just narrative shots, which are still more interesting than boring 'head on shots'.

but he only imagined they were imaginative 🙂

Well done to the Photo-It guy for giving a good explanation and not biting

Seconded. 🙂

And chuckling at "lactate alley"...

As Grum pointed out, selling is everything in a business, something njee still fails to understand.

It's not how good someone is, it's how they sell both themsleves and their work. That's why njee will (always?) work for someone else or until he better comprehends the power of sales and marketing and applies them to his own skills set, which I'd like to add, I would never lambast on a public forum (poor form, yet again, njee).

[img] [/img][url= http://www.px3.fr/winners/cat_details.php?cat_name=Advertising&compName=PX3%202009&pro=pro ]PX3 Awards. [/url]

I think it’s also worth noting that one man meat is another’s poison and photography in particular is very much a personal perspective.

Even a cursory look at the famous PX3 International Awards would reveal that I won outright the Automobile (professional) category, scored a 3rd in another and was awarded 5 commendations, perhaps revealing more about njee’s visual illiteracy & unnecessary snide comments than mere words on a web forum.

A sound illustration of what Grum was saying, concentrate upon sales & marketing & the rest will fall into place.

May seem like "Toys out of the Pram" but when some snideness pops up and slags your life's work off, a little defence is called for.

I think Ti29er wins the international "toys out of the pram" award (this thread category) by some margin. 🙂

I think Ti29er wins the international "toys out of the pram" award

[b]how very dare you![/b] He's got an [u][b]award[/b][/u]!!

It's pretty funny - I was basically slagging off Ti29er too - but he's somehow managed to see it as a complement. 🙂

Honestly - if you are going to go around acting the 'big I am' don't get upset when people pull you up on it. Giving out harsh unasked for criticism on other people's pictures is a bit rich when some of yours are frankly pretty poor (and some are very good and yes I know you won an award blah blah blah).

Yay this thread contains lots of my favourite things - photography, mountain biking, PP being pompous (again), and Ti29er being even more pompous (again).

I think it just annoys you that people do actually agree with me! 😉

That said, the photographers that have replied here seem to have good points and logical explanations of why they do what they do, so thanks for that you guys. 🙂

(i still think you're churning out too much mediocre stuff though)

You need to get out and ride more my friend, or put your brain into gear before opening your big gob

Oooh, PP in a snit ? Isn't [b]grum[/b] broken and almost unable to ride ? In which case that's below the belt 🙁

I would like to buy photos of my self from events, most of the photos i have seen (of me) that have been done by the pro's are great (dispite the subject matter)

[img] [/img]

The only problem i have is the price of the pic's, nearly £9 per pic is a bit steep i think. Hence why i have stoped buying them 🙁

Anyone can sit in their ivory tower and hurl insults you know!

Now seriously, I'm no great shakes as a photographer

Two statements of fact from PP.

SFB - So what if he is? I'm meant to know the ins and outs of every STWers injuries now am I?
It doesn't seem to affect his ability to (poorly) insult people. And if you can't take it, don't start dishing it out! 😉

Those in glass houses etc...... 🙂

EDIT
I see everyone else is starting to jump on the 'have a go at PP whilst we can' now.

Grow up.

Goodnight everyone, have a lovely evening. 😀

It's pretty funny - I was basically slagging off Ti29er too - but he's somehow managed to see it as a complement.

Aah, you see Grum, me and Tim have 'history', you need to spend longer slagging him off!

You do undoubtedly take some good photos Tim, throw enough sh1t at a wall and what not. I don't think your photos of cyclists are very good though. No, I'm not going to do better, I have no real interest in standing around for hours at a time, I'd rather be riding my bike. I just find it amusing that you feel able to critique absolutely every one elses photos, despite not exactly being well known in cycling circles as a photographer.

Slightly intrigued that this came back to my working practices though, not totally sure of the relevance there...

I see everyone else is starting to jump on the 'have a go at PP whilst we can' now.

was I having a go ? Seems to me you're being oversensitive today! And [b]grum[/b]'s been rabbiting on about ME or something for about a year now...
Peter I think you're a great guy but that doesn't magically inoculate you against being teased when you sound off :o)

I fear 'growing up' is beyond me and the best I can hope for is a gradual decline into dementia...

I see everyone else is starting to jump on the 'have a go at PP whilst we can' now.

Grow up.

You're the one who started it. You're critising a photographer earning his living doing what he know best. Who are you to judge?

You don't want to buy a photo, then don't. If you want a photographer to show you looking like a riding god in a variety of poses, then commission one to do so.

If you want a photographer to show you looking like a riding god in a variety of poses, then commission one to do so.

And if that is what you want I can recommend Steve Behr, his attention to detail is impressive, guess he's been one of MBUK's top photographers for decades for a reason!

However... he doesn't shoot events, maybe he realises there's no money in that, or he's just not as good at it. Take note Tim, you can be good at some types of photography, and not others!

FWIW... which is next to nowt.. I personally think that the pan shots are naff..

Now if we can just find a photographer that can accurately capture pomposity..........

You're critising a photographer earning his living doing what he know best. Who are you to judge?

Hilarious 🙂 I think we can see easily enough that robotic photography is hardly the apogee of the discipline! Unless they start handing out awards to speed cameras 🙂 One shouldn't confuse money making with art...

think we can see easily enough that robotic photography is hardly the apogee of the discipline!

And if you can't take it, don't start dishing it out!

[img] [/img]

Hilarious I think we can see easily enough that robotic photography is hardly the apogee of the discipline! Unless they start handing out awards to speed cameras One shouldn't confuse money making with art...

Remote photography is used more and more in sporting events. Getty and other big press photographers use it at all the major athletic champs.

In the 100 metres at a big international event there will be a bank of cameras all controlled remotely to capture the race.

It's not supposed to be art in that instance. It's a record of a person competing in an event.

, or get paid by selling lots of photos, doesn't it...

you're right of course, the absolute measure of merit is money

simonfbarnes - Member

, or get paid by selling lots of photos, doesn't it...

you're right of course, the absolute measure of merit is money

If you're self employed be you an artist or an engineer, the merit of your work is indicated in some way by the money you earn?

the merit of your work is indicated in some way by the money you earn?

financial merit, not photographic 🙂 Remember, Van Gogh never sold one painting ...

financial merit, not photographic Remember, Van Gogh never sold one painting ...

I bet everybody wants to be just like Van Gogh. [b]LOL[/b]

I bet everybody wants to be just like Van Gogh. LOL

so ambition is wrong ?

I bet everybody wants to be just like Van Gogh. LOL

so ambition is wrong ?

Yes. If your ambition is feeding your family while you are alive, Van Gogh's model is flawed.

If your ambition is feeding your family while you are alive

my youngest is 23 so I figure he can fend for himself :o)

Pragmatism is all very well, but are we to judge everything by money ? It seems a very crass metric 🙁

Pragmatism is all very well, but are we to judge everything by money ?It seems a very crass metric

The general vibe on this thread hs been about photogrphers making coin.

Don't be too offended.

Crucially, is Peter paid properly for being better than everyone else, or does he just do it for the love of his art? 😉

The general vibe on this thread hs been about photogrphers making coin.

wrong. Quite a few people who should know better have tried to use this to justify uninspired or even automatic photography - which PPs original post criticised. Frankly I couldn't care less if all professional photographers had to give it up and get proper jobs if they are typical of the responses given. Perhaps digital photography has been the undoing of workaday professionalism if it's democratised to something anyone can do, leaving just a few true visionaries 🙂

Crucially, is Peter paid properly for being better than everyone else

ha ha, but irrelevant. He doesn't have to be any good at it for his point to be valid.

A little blunt - but best to let you down now before you dig yourself even further into the mire.

I'll accept that it wouldn't be possible to get a picture of each of the 500 rides in the race jumping on their bike at the start without 500 photographers, but the finish shot shows what I mean by imaginative.
You look at it as a photographer and say if you can't see the number you can't sell the picture.
I look at it as a solo marathon rider and feel it shows the spirit of the event as I cross the line at the end of my last lap with less than 7 minutes to spare.

A tip: photograph riders from the front as you're not ID'ing anyone from these angles (no race numbers) - ergo you won't sell any images.

See what I mean about being imaginative ? I can't see my number, but I know I finished at 11:53 wearing a green & black jersey and shorts, so I'm sure I could pick myself out if you listed that batch of pictures by finish time.
You're the professional. If you say it won't work, then I'm sure it won't.
But if it does, I want 10% of the sales. 😉

Christ !,

Not sure I want to jump back in, but here goes nothing.....

I will get moaned at what ever I do, I can't please everyone but I try. Last year I read 'one' complaint about the remote flash and the rider had to go through it 4 times...This year I had someone on the trap to over ride it for the solos.

Last year I was asked why can't we take photos at the start/finish/changeover...This year we did, 'one' post is asking why take them in the car park area...

I was moaned at by a couple of riders for using a flash just after you came over the bridge. You had sunlight on your left, I was situated to your left, the flash was way over to your right - should have been no problem, but still someone will moan !

I have sold around 300 images/digitalfiles/web files so far for this event, I have had several emails back on how pleased they are.

The way I see it, apart from this forum, (which how many other photogs would even bother to reply let alone read), how would I know a few of you are not happy ? No one has contacted me to put forward any ideas or suggestions - As far as I am concerned the majority like them otherwise they wouldn't buy them - and keep buying them. Alot of the same customers buy them time and time again every year.

But !

I do take on board what you say - and to be fair I was not that impressed with some of them which ended up being the same as the trap photos. That camera had the chance to find a better area, but didn't.

Cheers
Adam

See what I mean about being imaginative ?

I'm sorry, but a badly exposed shot of a rider crossing a field towards a finish line isn't imaginitive, it's just a record. Still of value to you, obviously.

The second one shows the loneliness of crossing the line for the last time at dusk.

only if you know that beforehand. And loneliness is hard to capture in any circumstance. You should not confuse the imagination of the photographer with that of the viewer.

which how many other photogs would even bother to reply let alone read

At least 2.

Ok 2, but what I'm getting at is why not tell the photographer straight...

Was your meal to your liking sir.....Yes, it was lovely, Thanks!

I have sold around 300 images/digitalfiles/web files so far for this event, I have had several emails back on how pleased they are.

How many did PeterPoddy sell I wonder? ❓

Loads. He donated all the profits to charity. He kept that a secret though. Obviously if he'd told people it was for charity they'd have bought even more. 🙂

Most race pics I buy are as aide-memoires to the event - frankly so long as it's a half decent pic, I don't mind and I certainly don't really care about the artistic merit of it since I'm not a sensitive artistic type (well at least not obviously) who must have the perfect pic that perfectly captures the inner turmoil of the racer on the edge of his wit, etc 😉

I've got pics from photo-it for the past three or four years, a couple of which are below. I'm happy enough with them.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Oh, and rather suprised to see sfb on the side of ambition considering his oft and well publicised views on competition...

Presumably it's ok to have ambition in something that he approves of (taking good photos) but not in other things 🙄

Oh, and rather suprised to see sfb on the side of ambition considering his oft and well publicised views on competition.

simply, ambition is about achievement, not competition. I'm not against competition per se, but I think more people would benefit from sport if it were absent.

Not all trap photos have to be rubbish though:
[img] [/img]