I don’t know if it’s just me, but when I’m going up a trail:
1. It’s a damn sight easier to hear someone coming down it at speed than when I’m the descender listening for people coming up (which is why I get out of the way and let them continue enjoying their descent).
2. On 99% of local trails the singletrack was made as a descent, so if you’re going up it you know that you’re in a minority and you try not to mess up anyone’s descent.
Obviously on bridleways and footpaths the behaviour should be totally different. Not being a dick seems to work in all contexts.
In practice it works fine, it’s only ever an argument on the internet !!
100%
The ROW nerds love a chance to wield their keyboards like axes! 🙂
every ride is a race
surely the one who's about to get a new Straaaavaaaaaa!!!! KoM has priority?
which of course for roadies is correct and uphill, but MTBers, that'll be down hill.
there should be an option for "use commonsense to determine right of way" in the poll. I've given way to horses, and had horses give way to me. same with hikers. same with MTBers in both directions. only been apprehended by dog walkers for telling me I was riding too fast on a cycle path while their mutts were running wild in a nature reserve.
as for cars, on snow, lose traction uphill and it's potentially tricky to get moving again, but lose traction down hill and errm good luck, hope you don't fall of the side of the mountain.
Having 'earned' my descent, I love giving way to those who are on their way to earning it...
I try to give way whichever way I'm going tbh, 'cos it's just nice. That doesn't necessarily mean coming to a complete stop though - on a lot of the trails I ride there's room to pass whilst moving, and often the funnest downhill line is not the line you'd generally pick to climb up anyway.
Some of the places I ride though there are definitely trails that are 'known' as descents, and those that're known as climbs, so a lot of the time people tend to be going in the same direction anyway. And some of the places I ride there just aren't any people, which is the best.
"Don't be a dick" is entirely commendable as a fundamental way to interact with the world, and if it actually worked as a rule we wouldn't need most others. The problem is that quite a few people do behave like dicks, and rules/guidelines/protocol/whatever exist to (a) give guidance to people who can't figure out how not to be a dick, and/or (b) give some recourse against people who don't care about not being a dick.
The aim here is not to prevent nice people from giving way to others, whichever way they're going in. The aim is to cut down on dicks barreling into other people because they're riding too fast to safely avoid them. And it's when coming downhill, not going up, that that risk arises.
Bez's post makes I sad ☹️
Sorry. Will get back to trolling mode 🙂
I gave way to some horse riders on Sunday. I mean WTF, I had the all effort of getting restarted! If they'd given way, the horses would make all the effort.*
[i]The aim is to cut down on dicks barreling into other people because they’re riding too fast to safely avoid them. And it’s when coming downhill, not going up, that that risk arises.[/i]
I thought this was bleedin obvious when it was discussed on the thread which gave arise to the poll.
I wuz rong.
*had a little chat with them too. Nice kids.
I thought this was bleedin obvious when it was discussed on the thread which gave arise to the poll.
Sorry for not reading all the threads 🙂 Or not remembering, whichever.
it’s harder and less safe to try and stop when going downhill. it’s easy and safe to stop when going up, it’s just inconvenient. Safety trumps inconvenience.
Nonsense.
there should be an option for “use commonsense to determine right of way” in the poll
That is the correct answer but unfortunately a lot of people these days don't have any of it to use!
It's got so bad I think it needs to be in the national curriculum, but maybe teach it before sex education so people have it before they go using their genitals for reproductive purposes and making more stupid people 😛
1) There are quite a lot of climbs around here (Dark Peak) that I get a lot of enjoyment out of trying to 'clean'. I'm sure this comes from my trials days but I'm not alone in this pursuit. If it's a particularly techy climb that I've been trying for ages, I'll get a lot more enjoyment out of cleaning it than E.g. a KOM on the descent. If it's an easy climb then of course I'm happy to just get out of the way for someone coming down.
2) A lot of the trails around here are on wide-ish bridleways so a) they mostly work in both directions but b) are far easier in the downhill direction and c) there is always a choice of a couple of lines so there is scope for riders to pass each other without anyone stopping. I'm talking about trails a lot of people will know (The Beast, Potato Alley, Lockerbrook, Devil's Elbow@Blacka etc).
3) Most people you encounter are not going for a KOM. It's a small minority that will even care about being delayed slightly on a descent.
With that in mind (as well as the safety arguments already discussed), I definitely believe the climber takes priority, at least on the sort of trails around here. However, if the climber is just pootling up a steady climb then they may wish to get out of the way and that's great too.
The bigger point is of course no one should feel entitled to do anything other than give way to other trail users.
uphill should give way as it is easier for them to stop than someone ragging down a hill on a mtb.
"I would’ve said the uphill rider should give way as it’s harder and less safe to try and stop when going downhill. it’s easy and safe to stop when going up, it’s just inconvenient. Safety trumps inconvenience."
"uphill should give way as it is easier for them to stop than someone ragging down a hill on a mtb."
and we wonder why we come into conflict with other trail users.....
If you are on a PROW you give way if going downhill, it keeps you within the speed to safely stop for walkers, runners, horses, other people on bikes
sometimes these people stop and give way, be appreciative, say thanks and don't rag it past them
barging your way through because i) you as the downhill rider MUST be enjoying yourself more ii) you've earnt it going up hill to get to the top, iii) it is easier for them to stop than someone ragging down a hill on a mtb, iv) as it’s harder and less safe to try and stop when going downhill, v) Straaaavaaaaaa!!!!
I think you need to sit down with a cup of tea and consider what "don't be dick" means
Judging by the poll & this thread I think it's safe to say that the 'etiquette' isn't very well understod. I conclude from this there isn't actually an etiquette.
Judging by the poll & this thread I think it’s safe to say that the ‘etiquette’ isn’t very well understod. I conclude from this there isn’t actually an etiquette
judging by this thread I have concluded that some people are dicks
uphill should give way as it is easier for them to stop than someone ragging down a hill on a mtb.
I’m guessing you’re either unable to control a bike downhill or unable to tackle difficult trails uphill. Which is it? 🙂
Since moving back to Scotland about 5 years ago, I honestly can't think when this was ever an issue. It may be because no-one builds technical climbs, so all built/cut tracks are 100% for descending, and if you choose to push/pedal up one and someone is coming the other way, you just get off the track as it's built as a descent.
I’m guessing you’re either unable to control a bike downhill or unable to tackle difficult trails uphill. Which is it? 🙂
Why is that a choice of one or other when there's every chance it's both?
It’s got so bad I think it needs to be in the national curriculum, but maybe teach it before sex education
What level of common sense do you have when you think common sense can be taught?
Judging by the poll & this thread I think it’s safe to say that the ‘etiquette’ isn’t very well understod. I conclude from this there isn’t actually an etiquette.
Totally agree, people just work things out if left alone,who needs rules for playing in the woods, well mostly. Can't honestly remember if I've ever had a problem with oncoming riders up or down. Everyone seems pretty keen not to crash into each other, I'd leave it at that.
I guess the issue is more prevalent in the US, where trail centres aren’t directional, and are built to be ridden both ways, so they need to have it codified. (If the 200 odd comments on the FB post are anything to go by...)
Less of an issue here where trail centres are ridden in one direction.
(Yes I know not all UK Mtbing is done at a trail centre, but I figure people who do it out in the wild have a bit more about them when it comes to stuff like this...)
“The ROW nerds love a chance to wield their keyboards like axes! 🙂“
Solved it chaps, the person who gets off their bike first has right of way, as cyclists must give way to pedestrians. 👍
as cyclists must give way to pedestrians.
New poll!!
Climbing rider giving way as its usually easier for them get back into a rhythm after a stop.
It's the opposite, surely?
Also giving priority to the descending rider makes for a potentially dangerous practice.
In reality, if circumstances easily allowed it, I'd probably try to create as little inconvenience as possible when climbing. But at the same time, there has got to be some courtesy from the descending rider. There is nothing good going to come from an etiquette that says I'm going fast so get the chuff out the way, because Strava, etc...
