[Closed] Podium Girls - do they still have a place at races - what do you think ?

What are the colours of Le Crédit Lyonnais?

Yellow and blue

Though that's missing the point anyway - using podium girls to promote the sponsors is not the same thing at all as sponsors demanding podium girls for promotional purposes.

I doubt they object, we had plenty of pretty girls at our functions too.

[quote=mefty ]Yellow and blue

Yet they apparently sponsor a red and white uniform and a green uniform...

Really which race? They are not the sponsors of the green jersey in the tdf, that was PMU who colours are green and red, and the climber's jersey, I can't remember who sponsors it now, it used to be Champion whose colour is red.

My 4 year old likes cars especially old American cars. A couple of months ago I bought him a classic American cars mag which was fine, went to buy it again this month and on the cover was a half naked woman draped over a car FFS. NO NEED!

Unnecessary and bizarre - certainly
Offensive, sexist and the rest - hardly. No different from topless makes outside Hollister or the diet coke models.

No one is coerced. Let them get on with it if they want do. Neither titillates nor offends personally. Far more important things to worry about.

The bikini clad ladies are perfectly normal and I'd suggest that any derogatory comments about their form is in poor taste. Their purpose eludes me.

Now, how many folks with strong views suggesting no advertising featuring a stereotypically positive human form wear Assos....

It all comes down to market forces and economics, in the end. We are all 'objects' that have a variety of saleable assets and skills. It is up to us as individuals whether we monetise these assets, and it is up to us as a society what value to place on people's various personal assets and skills. Society is a sick puppy in many ways in the way it values these things; footballers wages being a prime example, but porn, modelling, 'celeb' culture and many other weird 'valuable' personal attributes are also prime examples of the weird way society values people. Meanwhile, the NHS work force has a real world pay cut for about the eighth year in a row.

Whilst society places value on such things, you can't really blame people for exploiting the fact. No point cutting your nose off to spite your face now.

Beach volleyball anyone?

I'll say it again, SOCIETY is sexist. This sexism expresses itself in many different ways, from under-representation in boardrooms/public office to more "trivial" comments about "women drivers" and such.
Sponsors employ women in bikinis at sporting events because that is what they believe will help them shift units, because they understand that society is sexist, so pander to sexist views of women. It is not the job of sponsors to challenge sexism, it is their job to sell things to society. So, if society is sexist, sexism sells...

If you are lucky enough not to be negatively affected by sexism, or unaware of how sexism may negatively affect you, you may not see sexism as a problem. You may well even argue that sexism does not exist, as, in your own experience/awareness, it does not.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN SEXISM DOES NOT EXIST.

The fact that you are far more likely to see women standing around in bikinis at many sporting events rather than competing in said sport is an expression of a SEXIST society. The very fact that women in bikinis at a WOMEN'S sporting event has caused such a stir is confirmation of this.
It is not the women in bikinis that is an unusual sight, it is the women ON THE PODIUM. The image of the women on the podium causes us to really see the women in bikinis for what they are, an expression of SEXISM. Whether or not we choose to recognise what we see for what it is and begin to properly challenge sexism in sport is an individual choice and is usually dependent upon whether or not we benefit from the status quo.

It is very important that we see the sexism in society, whether it affects us or not. The only way to make society more equal is for those who benefit from inequality to stop shrugging their shoulders and take responsibility. Recognise that you are benefiting from an unequal society, then make the choice whether you want to challenge that inequality and fight for equality or support sexism by continuing to benefit from it.

If you chose the latter, fine, but understand that your need to defend sexism is most likely a result of your benefiting from it, whether you realise it or not.

Sorry for the rant, I've had a couple of ciders, they've always made me quite philosophical.

Perfectly said fin25. I'd kind of given up..!

*drops mic and walks away...*

That's all very well, but only an idiot would think differently. the bigger question is can that be changed? Should it be changed? Whether we like to admit it or not, the sexes ARE very different. Men are more commonly ambitious than women. Men tend to compete harder than women. Women tend to be drawn more towards caring, nurturing roles than men. (I appreciate that these are sweeping generalisations, but stats bear them out) Is this because we live in a sexist society and young boys and girls are conditioned to seek out these roles? Or is it more organic, a subtle (and by no means universal) genetic predisposition towards these roles? My gut feeling is that it's a chicken and egg question. That one leads to the other, which leads to the other. And in the face of such fundamental differences, society is always going to be unequal, giving differing opportunities to individuals based on their sex.

I do however, feel lucky to be living in a society that has pushed back a great deal, and is more equal than it ever has been. I just don't think that true equality is a realistic goal.

None of the above is in anyway condoning girls hanging around looking awkward in bikinis at cycling events. That's just a bit odd.

I'll say it again, SOCIETY is sexist.

I don't think anyone is debating that society isn't sexist, just what people define as sexist and the difference between men and women.

A place for them at the races could be in the back of my car 😆

Fin25, you are a very wise and eloquent person.

One thing I am curious about, there are lots of comments here in the vein of "back to the 1970s". If fin25 and others are right - and I believe they are - then why was it any more acceptable then? Surely the reasoning doesn't change with time and the core fact remains? Or is this the context of the times changing? Just curious.

don't have aproblem with it at all. TBF its the only interesting thing about F1 and road cycling. If I won a race, I'd rather be handed flowers/prize by an attractive woman than some bloke. Its not sexist to have dolly brollys and podium girls

agree with fin25 and agree with franksinatra from the first page...

I would rather see their place taken with young kids from within the sport, a bit like mascots at football matches. That would be so inspiring for kids to share the podium with their heros.

Its not sexist to have dolly brollys and podium girls

So why aren't blokes doing it then?

Is it time to re-open the Danny Mac/Playboy vid debate?

If brolly dollies were genuinely there to hold brollies, they would 6'7" tall and weigh 200kg, for maxium shade coverage. Gender irrespective.

So why aren't blokes doing it then?

not asked to? - that doesn't make it sexist

So, there is agreement that bikini clad girls is inappropriate for the podium.
Bearing in mind that the majority of podium girls are wearing sponsors or winner's shirt colours and are not at all provocative. Where do we stop using attractive girls or guys in publicity or public imagery?

those girls in that pic look like the typical skanky girls at local car shows. thats just tacky

I would rather see their place taken with young kids from within the sport, a bit like mascots at football matches. That would be so inspiring for kids to share the podium with their heros.

I missed this at the time, but, absobloodylutely. Here's some podium girls and front-of-stage dressing you can get behind

[img] [/img]

Would that have been better with a bunch of girls in their pants? Would it make you more likely to buy a thing?

Is disappointed at the distinct lack of females responding to this topic. 😐

Not surprised at some of the male responses either, Neanderthal man never went away. 😐

not asked to? - that doesn't make it sexist

It sort of does.. Are they there because they are female 'eye candy'? Yes. Therefore yes sexist.

Would I want my daughter to do that? No. Because I feel it's demeaning and doesn't result in a positive image for the girls or the products.

Kids doing it is a much better idea.

your not neanderthal just because you like a sexy bird standing infront of you. just a normal red blooded bloke with eyes. when you go a club you look and say shes a stunner. when you see a lass in a short skirt you say or think oh yes, shes fit. when you see a geezer in a muscle vest and speedos i bet you check out his junk. men and women are the same so dont come that crap love.

Kids doing it is a much better idea.

sex sells, its nothing new.

alpinestar = Neanderthal man although that was picked up a few pages back in this thread. Guess you don't like wimminz on here either. 🙄

brilliant satire from alpinestar

So should sex be used to sell products for kids since it's adults that buy them?

[i]dont come that crap love.[/i]

this place sometimes 🙁

I've often tried to wrestle the same topic that v8ninety raised in his last post.

our society [i]is [/i]unbalanced, is that a result of a fundamental (trend) difference in the sexes and genetic makeup or a result of our society, or did one cause the other?

Personally I think it's probably a bit of both, there's no question that there are individuals from both sexes that buck the trend, but there [i]is [/i]a trend and I would love to know if that's nature or nurture.

I just don't think that true equality is a realistic goal

If it is nature the above may hold true, if it is nurture then it doesn't, it just may take a while to get there, but even if our genetic makeup as a species predisposes us to have an unequal society in that regard, one thing we can have, and should always strive for is [i]equality of opportunity[/i], as that is within our control, and sadly we are still not there.

Half-naked people bimbling around while we congratulate great athletes is just a bit odd, regardless of gender, the reason it happens is very much due to the inequality of our society, whatever the reasons for that inequality may be....

not asked to? - that doesn't make it sexist

Pretty sure that's workplace gender discrimination.

don't have aproblem with it at all. TBF its the only interesting thing about F1 and road cycling. If I won a race, I'd rather be handed flowers/prize by an attractive woman than some bloke. Its not sexist to have dolly brollys and podium girls

those girls in that pic look like the typical skanky girls at local car shows. thats just tacky

Your two posts above illustrate the problem fantastically, well done. First post: "I would like a prize from someone I find attractive", second post: "and definitely not from someone who is 'skanky'".

So the entire value of the person is how physically attractive you personally find them? You've reduced this person to an object for your own arousal - that's the whole problem.

mt - Member
brilliant satire from alpinestar

+1

my STW detective senses have just aligned 'alpinestar' with 'davidtayforth'...

SamB - Member
...You've reduced [s]this person[/s] [i]an entire gender[/i] to an object for your own arousal - that's the whole problem.

i extrapolated a little bit, i hope you don't mind.

your not neanderthal just because you like a sexy bird standing infront of you. just a normal red blooded bloke with eyes. when you go a club you look and say shes a stunner. when you see a lass in a short skirt you say or think oh yes, shes fit. when you see a geezer in a muscle vest and speedos i bet you check out his junk.

Nothing wrong with noticing other people and finding them attractive, as long as it's in context. The context in your post being everyday people who have put an effort to make themselves look attractive (at a club, on the beach, etc).

Podium girls are not there because, on a normal Sunday afternoon, they'd be hanging around a podium in their bikinis. They're there to serve as an object of titillation for audience.

one thing we can have, and should always strive for is equality of opportunity, as that is within our control, and sadly we are still not there.

Sex sells in one particular way to one particular audience. When you have a sport/hobby/passtime/thing that isn't specifically gendered, formulating your pitch like that is just stupid and exclusionary. If companies insist on it, that's not wisdom or experience, it's insecurity and habit.

Personally I have no preference either way on whether grid/podium girls should still be part of sport.

There has been a huge debate on motorsport forums recently due to the WEC (Le Mans) banning grid girls. Then the Monaco GP added to it by using 'Grid Boys' this year.

It has been a long time since the F1 grid girls have been scantily clad and I think was a planned move to try and appease, slightly, the anti factions.
Personally I think the bikini podium girls at a Woman's race was very poorly thought out, bikini clad girls is very poorly thought out full stop nowadays and will always get a reaction, perhaps that's what they wanted?

I have been involved in Motorsport for a number of years I've got to meet a number of grid girls, a lot of them are madder than a box of frogs and are a great laugh and really enjoy doing it as they earn some money from it, some are big motorsport fans, they all get to know each other and build friendships etc.

I'll put this link here as an interview from someone who is a grid girl and why she did it...

[url= http://girlracer.co.uk/index.php/motorsport/motorsport-news/22261-michelle-westby-from-gridding-to-drifting ]Grid Girl Interview[/url]

I think v8ninety unwittingly highlights precisely why society is gender biased in favour of men. It's nothing to do with genetic or biological differences, because these have absolutely nothing to do with people's ability to fulfil any role in society. The 'fudamental' differences you spoke of are generated by sterotypes. Stereotypes of gender roles in society are created by the society itself, not biological differneces. To claim that biological/genetic differences are what keeps genders and society unequal, is perceisly what perpetuates the problem. Yes, society is more equal than it has been, but the balance is still very out.

If you can acknowledge that it is societal attitudes that cause the issue, then it can be challenged and changed; it is not a matter of chicken and egg, or nurture and nature.

Yes, society is more equal than it has been, but the balance is still very out.

Yup, in more ways than you think. The economist has run a couple of articles recently on men being the weaker sex in developed countries' labour markets.

Not free to read without a subscription, but some commentary:

http://fabiusmaximus.com/2015/05/30/men-the-weaker-sex-85146/

Edit: I tell a lie, the main article is: http://www.economist.com/news/essays/21649050-badly-educated-men-rich-countries-have-not-adapted-well-trade-technology-or-feminism

hey, i am a straight normal guy who thinks the female form is sexy and if its in a bikini where ever i find it even better. i can tell you now that if i see a guy looking muscly/fit/toned although i get no thrill from it i do get envious as i know its what a bird oops sorry a lady would like and what id like to look like. tbh most the things ive said on here are simply to get the post a bit more interesting as a reaction to something is better than reading boring serious crap lol. i mean nothing by it, just keeps me amused untill i go to work.

if i had to be honest i dont mind half neked ladies prouncing about anywhere. wouldnt like it being my daughter if i had one but i dont mind it being someone elses. like i said just a normal geezer.

[i]wouldnt like it being my daughter if i had one but i dont mind it being someone elses. like i said just a normal geezer. [/i]

obvious troll is obvious.

just to check did anyone notice at the bottom of this page is a womans boob in what looks like an advert for a bra or bikini lol. surprised noones complained about that or mentioned it yet. im disgusted.

FRESH GOODS FRIDAY.