[Closed] Pat Adams wants your feedback on SITS to make it even better so what.........

Rich,

Good thread so far and I'm with you 100% on points 1,4 & 5. I didn't ride SIT's but these would apply to OSMM too.

A good start.

Nicely put PostieRich, happily second you on every one of those, none of which would be difficult to add to the event I expect.
JB

The solo camping worked well with the course all round it, made picking up drinks etc easier.

Water supply in the solo area would be good.

Agree about the start time.

Don't really agree with taping off huge areas to bag good spots. I know you want to be together but this year those taped areas close to the track were huge.

Point 1. Yes.

Point 2. No, I'm happy with how its currently run.

Point 3. Yes but it's not that much of a hassle.

Point 4. How can you camp a, on the side of a hill or b, in a forest?

Point 5. Agreed, a team I know are looking to do BBF in this manner just to win.

Point 6. You should enter yourself properly 😯 in the first place.

More veggie food at the excellent cateing outlet,

Better signage to the various parts to the course, for us spectatorsd, and like above a map of the course, possibly 10 or 20p, a couple of chat chillout tents.

I turned up at about 5pm Saturday afternoon for a nosey around and the whole place just felt dead.
There wasn't any atmosphere, there wasn't any buzz around the change over area. I don't know whether it's always been like this as I've always been racing when I've been there .
There seemed to be less stalls and there seemed to be a lot more room on the campsite than previous years.
I'm perhaps about to contradict myself here, but I like SiTS for being a bit more chilled but there is 'chilled' and there is 'dead'.

Don't pump out the bogs at 1am with the loudest generator possible

Oh and foam or something to stop the loo doors slamming shut bit of a pain when you're trying to sleep.

I think, if you had to use the bogs in the morning that having them emptied when they need emptying, no matter what time, is the best option.

Houns, SITS has always been the more relaxed of the two 24hr events that pat does. It was very quiet once the race started but it was really busy for us on the ST stand before the start and from midday Sunday.

Agree with earlier start time and toilet in changeover, and as a female in mixed category I think we should be made to do more laps than just sending the girl out to do a double night lap as I have heard of in the past.

Camping was plenty big enough, loads of space where we were.

More people around the course would be good. However I suppose you then have to be careful with people wandering onto the course and may need extra marshals?

I don't agree with point 2.

Only other thing I would add is a few large bins as the amount of gel wrappers on the course this years was a disgrace despite the warning before hand.

Was a great event

About the girl thing, maybe there should be minimum of two girls per team?
(three women and two blokes in our team this year)

Fair enough Mark, as I mentioned I'm normally racing so get caught up with the atmosphere within my team.
Anyway i'll have a think about what improvements can be made so i can be a little more constructive!

More bins out on the course and some recycling bins for plastic bottles and cans, of which there where many.

Possibly swith off the PA for the dog show on the opposite field, that woman droneing on about some pampered pooch for a few hours.

Please can we have better catering than Quavers?
Bring back Wilf's, get the local WI or farmers market or something. Anything is better than the overpriced Styrofoam tray of soggy pasta or those "bacon" rolls which were actually gristle.

And a coffee wagon. Anyone there with one of those coffee machines built into the back of a Smart car would have made a fortune. Oh and an ice cream van too.

Everything else was great - good marshals, ACE course (best I've ever seen at Catton Park), excellent weather, some nice stalls offering good deals, a relaxed vibe. Top event apart from the food.

🙂

Agree about the catering, there's better out there and better priced too.

Turned up to watch this year and with the bone dry course wish I'd done some laps.

1. Agree @ 12 start/finish

2. Prefer to have to cross the line after the 24 hours. Though this year at MM it didn't matter and you got a placing even if you didn't do the 24 hours.

3. Agree about course map and routes to get to the different spots

4. Re categories / podiums - they introduced a solo vets category at MM one week after the event had finished !!! I think to get a podium place you should be within a certain percentage of the winner (say 75% but shold be easy to work out from previous years what it should be if you take a 10th place finisher as the marker).

5. Mixed teams / women - I've told the g/f that she's racing with me next year as a mixed pair - she's doing two laps and I'm soloing the rest as it's my best chance of a podium even though she's only been on an mtb once. At 2412 the Torchbearer mixed pairs had one entry I think. Suggest team members have to do laps within a certain percentage of each other though very difficult to monitor and what happens when a team member is ill?

Others
solo area - have one way in and another out - try to set it up so that people at the track side don't have an advantage in not having to cycle off to their tents - might not sound a lot but if you stop 9 times and lose 3 minutes to/from your tent that's close on half an hour.

Recycling - easy to put different bins out.

Get the results right - see point 2 above. No changing of categories after race starts - wrong category then no category !!! If people knew they were racing you then they might have ridden differently.

I know it's a fun event but some of us do race. At 2412 someone cut a section of the course out and they weren't going to penalise them unless they were near the front. Why? Same rules for everyone.

Courses - MM and SITS getting better though it seems that 2412 have dry / wet options.

BTW I liked the dog commentary - took me quite a while to work out it's wasn't for Sleepless !!!

[i]Point 6. You should enter yourself properly in the first place.[/i]
We were put in the wrong Cat and had it changed when we noticed ie after 3 laps not 28,imangine if you were in first and noticed you had a lap lead then took your foot of the gas to preserve it then results get changed with very little time to go and the other team that has finally decided to change is in front by a matter of minutes!!!

Pat has held his hands up but surely the team that decide to change should be held responsible and take the consequenses

2nd the food drab and uninspiring and a real coffee/maker would have been good.

Thanks to STW for my hipflask in the jersey comp!!

Agree with start time at 12...

Nope, 24 hours work as they are! If I went out for a lap @ 23:20, overtook first place and came in @ 24:01, I'd be pissed. It makes the event a 23hr event!

Toilets def could of been placed better

Agree, trackside camping would be nice but not easy to do... Although if they used the course to split the team and solo camping they could of taken the course much further down the field.

The map of the course in registration tells (or should) everyone where the ups/downs are

Categories are becoming a problem at SITS. The women cats are not popular and while you're gonna have to keep the Solo... You either do away with the mixed teams to encourage full female teams or you increase the number of females required.

Agree the female should have to do more (if the team do more)... You could do this on a percentage of the number of laps your team has done. A set number doesn't work on the slower teams.

The correct cats is a problem and will always happen and has for as long as I remember... Should prob have a cut off point or even make sure when you sign on everything is correct. I looked after the winning solo rider and his timing chip didn't have a name or cat associated with it for the first 4 laps. Not his fault but could of effected the cat result if I'd not got it sorted sooner.

Addition to your suggestions:

Mark parking on the floor or have marshalls directing cars... People were abandoning my cars and if you needed to leave early you probably couldn't! I tried walking through some of the parking & tents and after that I decided it was easier to walk around!

Mark pits in the Solo area, some people were taking up three or four cars worth with their car, tent & ezee-up... I realise people need more stuff in the solo but if you got there early you got your pick and if you got there late you got nothing!

Goes back to better parking but if I parked in the solo area and needed to go out for emergency supplies or something I wouldn't of been able to...

Better lighting in the arena, was very dark in the Solo area.

Was disappointed to see the commentator bugger off and the music turned off at 9pm. In my mind, it's a 24 hour event and these things should continue throughout the night. I know some people are trying to sleep but the event lost it's buzz between 9pm & 9am... That's 12 hours when there was no music or commentary!

I also noticed Marshalls went to sleep... Would of been nice for them to be up and shouting a little encouragement for riders... I know most of them were kids but hey Marshalls are there for a reason and that reason doesn't go away at night.

May be difficult to achieve but I would like to see some lit areas on the course at night. Just to create a couple places for spectators to go at night, keep the atmosphere alive.

The live timing was ok but it really needed a couple of additions... One, position on the keypad entry system. On the LCD screen you need numbers to find your competitors on the live timing to look at their lap times.

Would of been nice to have a screen near the start/finish line displaying riders who have just crossed the line. Latest 20, name, number, lap time, cat, position etc...

Just my thoughts and as I said, I was pit bitching for a solo! I had a long time to think about these things.

Oh also, wasps... There were thousands of them... Unavoidable... But the people supplying food as a business... Cover up your ****ing cakes!

I know its not realistic but I always think something missing from events like these are a good band and big piss up at the end. It'd mean taking another day off work though no really feasible but would be great fun.

Yeah better food. I think the only thing I was happy with was the porridge in the morning. Jacket spud wasn't too bad but I want a MASSIVE one. I had one at mayhem that wouldn't even have been sufficient enough for a child. I guess there's an extra cost keeping it going for 24hrs. Baguettes and Lincolnshire sausage sandwich were naff.

An earlier start.
Toilets in the change-over.
An ice-cream van. 8)

Oh, and a ban on litter-lout racers...we had a walk to the bomb-holes last night after most people had left and picked up quite a few gel-wrappers.

Wasps at an outdoor event, in Summer...who'd have thought it! 🙄

😉

I'm against a big band at the end! No Fuss do it at 10 under the ben and usually I'm so tired I go straight to bed and just want the band to bugger off.

Also, SITS- only way to improve it as far as I'm concerned is a new course that isn't affected by mud. I've enjoyed the atmosphere, organisation etc. when I've done it (but agree 2pm is too late a start) but stopped going after the 2008 one and will not return until it's somewhere weatherproof- No Fuss managed this, the Puffer team do it, why can't the king of 24 hour racing?

The problem with the solo area was that the marquee was far too big

I'd like to see the solo area set up similar to Enduro 6 so that it doesn't matter where you set up it's the same distance to go for all soloists and no bottles/food handed over outside this area.

Gel bins please - I can't believe that people simply throw wrappers down and expect someone to pick them up later. Just dreadful.

I'd also like to see pairs racers have some sort of distinguishing marker like solos - I know it's a practical irrelevance in some ways, but it'd be nice to know who's in the same category as you.

Finally... it would be great if the commentator actually knew something about the race... And could we ape the dog show that was going on on the other side of the road and have a biscuit catching competition please 🙂

Muddypuddle...the solo tent was almost deserted this year...no idea why.
Last year and the year before it was packed with solo-ists.
It's a great facility and those who used it appreciated having a chat etc. wheh they came in from a lap.

Great event, really welcoming for us less "competitive" teams.
Great camping areas, but would love some washing up facilities for the dishes.
Could maps be available in the registration packs?
If you can carry the gels in, why not carry the wrappers out, you wouldn't litter your local trails like that.
Bring back the unicycles!

Firstly - Well done for another superb event.

My first SITS and I enjoyed it more than my last which was MM09.

- The course - I liked it. Courses need to be a bit rough, its mountain biking after all.

Things I would like -

- Earlier start/finish. This seems popular. I think much more people stay Friday than stay over on the Sunday night. An earlier finish would mean more people staying for a bit at the end.

- Catering - I appreciate that they probably work their arse off that lot, but still a change would be nice.

- Marshalls were great, friendly and funny - more of that please.

- A second, lit up mini 'arena' section through the night halfway round the lap would be great - nothing massive, but it would be like a little oasis halfway round your lap to get a marshall post with a water butt, some floodlights to fix your puncture and some hardy spectators to will you on a bit.

- More action on the commentary side. Get the spectators/crowd more 'into' the racing.

- Maps would be useful for everyone I think, racers and spectators. Only need to be little cheap a4 prints.

Absolutely loved it though, so cheers.

Am I the only person that thought some of the twisty bits on the course were a bit much?

Especially that flat bit after the small bridge towards the end of the first half, through the trees... V annoying I thought. I mean I love twisty singletrack and most of the course was fab, but some bits completely robbed all the flow.

Equivalent to putting a turnstyle in the middle of a marathon 🙂

A 12 noon start would be a good move for those that travel from afar.

Overall I thought the event and facilities were superb. The marshalls at night did my morale wonders, especially the 3 guys blasting out and 'singing' Ghost Busters at 2am! Couldn't get "I ain't afraid of no ghosts" out of my head for some time.

Midday start and finish would be better and more logical.
Extend the course across the camping field in an out & back loop so there is more trackside camping for those who want it.
Better commentary at the finish line. It's nice to get a mention as you cross the line. Could the commentator have a screen in front of him so he can call out the riders name, lap number and position as they pass ?

Now the controversial bit...
Cut the really tight, twisty bits through the trees out of the course.
Look at any trail centre or popular unofficial trail through trees. they've all got a nice flow to them where you can maintain a reasonable speed. Nobody chooses to ride one hairpin bend round a tree after another at walking pace.
I know it's all part of the course and it's the same for everyone, but SPAM biking pick some first class single track for their events, the sort of stuff that I go looking for and ride by choice. MM and SITS both put far too many unnecessary twists in.

Agree with much of the above - especially the start time. The catering wasn't great, but the worst. 'Pasta with pesto' was actually pasta mixed with dried herbs and oil - not good.

We did Bonty 24/12 last year as our first 24hr marathon. So far as the biking and course and marshalling is concerned, they seem on a par. But the 'rider interface' seems a little less professional at SITS. Start with the website - it is truly terrible - how does it encourage anyone to enter. Loads of outdated references.

Registration was fine as a process, but we didn't get the event Buff and just happened to enquire the Sat morning when we saw loads of people with them. "Oh, didn't you get one? Here you go". Those Endura bags that were given out with the shorts should be given to riders with their number in, the buff, a gel or something from SiS, some free lube trial sachet. This is stuff I picked up free anyway - it would be nice to get it together.

I hope the results this year give lap breakdowns. This seems something basic to achieve.

Course entertainment would be good at night - like the disco and lounge singer at Bonty.

And defo an ice-cream van!!

Oh, and roving marshals handing out a one lap penalty for anyone caught dropping gel wrappers.

One lap? Instant DQ I think if it's deliberate. You don't have to do it, you are just lazy, thoughtless, and a c*nt.

I must admit though that [b]some[/b] people accidentally drop them. I saw various other objects that had clearly not been thrown away too.

Loved SITS this year. The only negative is the catering. Much better when it was Wilfs. Same at MM. Even a choice of caterers would be nice. A bit of healthy competition.

The offcial race photo is always somewhere boring. Would be nice if it was taken somewhere a bit better.

As mentioned toilets in the changeover area would be great.

I didnt see much of the campsite or the arena, but I was impressed with the shower and toilet set up. Much much better than at 10 at kirroughtree.
I reckon the solo tent was empty as I think the majority of us (somewhat antisocially perhaps) have our own gazebo's trackside.

topangarider...MrFC didn't get a buff on the Friday either, but we went and enquired on Saturday and were told by Pat's wife that they hadn't arrived. We got one, as did my son as he was cheeky enough to ask! No problem really. Hardly something to complain about.
A HUGE thanks to Pat and his crew for providing a fantastic weekend's event. 😀
I know Pat has asked for suggestions for improvements...mine would be that the whingers and whiners would be much happier staying at home next year. 😉

Web site definitely needs attention its always out of date. Forum would also be a good idea !

As a soloist who did use the tent quite a few people popped in then out when they realised there only 3 tables (and only 2 lights !). Eventually more were brought from the registration tent at about 12. Other people were also put off by the extra distance from the entry lane so pitched their own tents nearer (I think this is a bit anal personally). If you look at d2d they have a direct entrance into the solo tent area which makes it beneficial for people to use

Categories as above really..thought I was also in a Vets category but heard nothing about it at the award ceremomy - what happened ?

But overall it was my best SITS w/e in 5 years !

Angela - I think it just seems a little disorganised. I mean really, the title sponsor not turning up until the Saturday morning?!

On the plus side, I thought the toilets and showers were excellent - nice to have proper loos instead of portaloos.

A BIG map of the course with some lables and distance/elevation info would be good.

The number-entry system for getting lap times was a brilliant feature - would be nice to have been given total number of team laps and current position also.

Really did enjoy the event, but with funds getting stretched for more and more people and events being cancelled due to lack of numbers - the little or no-cost improvements do make a difference and may be what draws people back.

RabidDog's right about the solo tent.
On Saturday am there were only 3 tables. I asked one of the organisers who told me more would be brought over after registartion had finished. An extra 5 appeared at around midday. Seemed a bit strange that there was a massive tent with so few tables.
I reckon they'd just been forgotten about.

Having the light charging tent was great and a big thanks to the guy there who sorted me out with a set of lights at 3am.

I love twisty single track but I agree with molgrips that some of the course is verging on silly, the flat section that practically turned back on itself seemed particularly pointless.

On the flip side, keeping momentum through some of the very tight sections is a skill and offsets some of the advantage that just very fit riders have.

Trans provence is set up to reward skill as well as fitness with difficult technical descents.

However overall I enjoyed the course and only had one or two sapling whip marks to explain to my wife!

Agree on the catering, could be better, particularly the coffee, as a coffee geek I was very disappointed.

The bar/tent/chill area as seen at the Dyfi and SSUK would be nice, don't know how that would fit into a 24 HR race but it does create a place to exchange stories/experiences and chill.

I'd agree with the 12 start.

I like the finishing after the 24 hours. I think it encourages people to try and get one last lap in. Possibly following the No Fuss approach of you have an hour after that to get in otherwise it doesn't count to minimise the hanging about might be a decent half way house.

I can certainly see the argument for changing the rules for the mixed teams, but I know when we had a mixed team at mayhem our female teammate wasn't too sure about whether she wanted to do it and the fact that she only had to do two laps was definitely a plus point. It'd be a shame to loose that. I can see it's a problem further up the rankings.

Mostly I think Pat gets it pretty right though.

Oh, and I really didn't mind the twisty bits. It was only 50 yards in a 7ish mile course. There was plenty of nice flowy bits to make up for it.

I think that mixed should be 2 and 2 and that you should at least attempt to do an equal number of laps, Running a "Mixed" team with one woman who does the minimum 2 laps smacks of pot hunting