Pace RC429 - An unfortunate short term review

It's because SRAM

The Hope E4 I tested would disagree.

Touche

That mount looks like it is on the wonk - under heavy braking the frame & the brace looks to give no support. I wonder if the demo might've been a pre-production model or something?

Not the case - full production model and set-up as other shown in online photos.

Does look little under supported, but hard today from a photo.

Did you try a different (smaller diameter) rotor at all? Resonance is due to vibration matching the natural frequency of an object. If you change the object dimensions, then the natural frequency would change also, which may cure it.

Is there a maximum rotor size for that?

Bitd with IS mounts, I would have got my facing tool out and got it faced to perfection to stop unwanted noise. Could it be that this was also slightly out so not totally perpendicular to the rotor?

I've had a few bikes do similar. Not that it will happen with every different setup but that kind of brake mount design with minimal support is basically asking for vibration. I was sort of interested in a 429, just seeing that mount puts me off somewhat.

Other factors are involved, for example resonance vibration is more likely with metallic pads, or bigger rotors because they need taller mounts. I've got a bike now that does it occasionally. Never happened with the stock aluminum wheels, but does now with carbon wheels, nothing else changed. So something about the original wheels was obviously damping out vibration or changed the resonance frequency. I've seen riders sticking/strapping small weights to the caliper to stop vibration. I tried this with old Avid Juicy brakes, stopped it completely.

Rotor size on the T-Spec model is 180mm - which is what I had fitted.

I tested with both organic and metallic/sintered pads.

I make my own steel frames from scratch (including the dropouts and disc mount). I also work in a structural durability test lab so do have some experience of stiffness / resonance issues in non-bike applications - they can be a complex combination of variables, so not surprising that some builds are presumably ok for other people . Pace have lots of experience, but I personally wouldn't make a disc mount like that (caveat - I never use post mount anyway as the unfashionable ISO mount is easier to make and more flexible for hub gears and single speed)

We've once had a different dropout issue with a major bike manufacturer. They "had never encountered it before" but agreed to replace the frame. The replacement frame (next model year) used mostly the same dropout, but they'd changed the forging to put extra material and surface area in the exact place we had the problem - what an amazing coincidence......

The video I sent to Pace with my testing

https://youtube.com/shorts/p6_aPxesp7Y?feature=shared

They “had never encountered it before”

Ha, I had that from one brand. This was after telling me they were replacing stays for affected customers. Bizarrely their store had the bike for several weeks and couldn't do much about it because they claimed the issue couldn't be replicated, despite it happening straight away for me and being on video.

IANAE

That central welded on brake mount does appear to be a recipe for flex or resonance under braking. Surely the load path is down(ish) a the front of the mount, so any resonance or on/off at the pad/rotor meeting is just going to be amplified?

A quick look at other steel frames and brake mounts, it seems even some with adaptors have a 'forward projection' - but they all are IS to PM via an adaptor. But all have a wider base than the Pace...
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54260283460_b6427973f7_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54260283460_b6427973f7_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2qEN8SC ]Bfe 2025 Gunmetal - Detail Dropout 29er[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/coticltd/ ]CoticLtd[/url], on Flickr

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Interesting. That flex looks pretty bad in the vid. Thankfully my 529 uses IS mount. Though I did have a similar issue with my signal ti, basically changed everything part by part to get the rear brake to stop reverberating horrendously through the frame. New everything solved it I think.

Is the mount square to everything else? We had horrendous vibrations/noise from a trek fuel a decade ago, mount was massively out. That was an IS mount that worked ok with a post mount adapter and brake but not a IS caliper.

Apparently so. Pace checked it over and said it was spot on.

Did you try a different brake mount? It might have made a difference.

Yep. Hope and SRAM.

Pace are expert engineers and bike designers and never get it wrong. If something fails it's the riders fault. Ask anyone who had a 303.

This thread isn’t exactly filling me with confidence when I’ve got an RC429 frame on pre-order!

I’m not here to slag off Pace

You clearly are. ( Which is fine TBH, everyone is entitled to an opinion)

And calling it s review is a bit of a stretch.  Fair enough if you think the bike is shit then say so. If you think Pace is shit then say so, but don't try to dress it up as something else.

A review is judgement or discussion of the quality of something. Review also means to go over a subject again as part of study or to look at something another time. Review has many other senses as both a noun and a verb. A review is a critique of something—a look at something's good and bad points.

Likewise - entitled to your opinion.

If the brake mount design changes...I'd have zero hesitation ordering another one. As I said, the rest of the bike is absolutely nailed. So much so, I'd love to be in a financial position to go to someone like Curtis, Dawley etc and have a custom frame made with the exact same numbers and geo.

OnzadogFree Member
Pace are expert engineers and bike designers and never get it wrong. If something fails it’s the riders fault. Ask anyone who had a 303.

Or a 405

A review is judgement or discussion of the quality of something

Ok, so change the thread title to

Pace RC429 Rear Brake Mount– An unfortunate short term review

That's the only bit of the bike you actually dedicate any time to whining about...

I thought the original post sounded fair and reasonable without being rude, we could argue about the title but if I was lucky enough to be considering a Pace RC429 then the title would catch my attention better than “howling Pace brake”. I think @someareset is quite right to make us aware of his problems, as for the “whining” comment above? Very rude.

The video I sent to Pace with my testing

The movement you are applying to the caliper isn't what's causing the juddering,vibration. Your comparison pics of the brake mount show where the issue is - the thin forward support of the mount will be flexing and allowing the caliper to rotate slightly with the disc when applied until the load 'pulls' the caliper back into its original position *(chest infection/mega man flu definitions) resulting in vibration. There also doesn't appear to be a lot of weld when the mount is attached like Pace have done. The other frame builders approach looks better.

thegeneralist sounds like a Pace child fanboi..it's a very fair observation, my riding buddy has the same issue but lives with it. Definitely a frame design issue, but Pace are never wrong obvs

I thought the original post Pace's response sounded fair and reasonable

Fixed that for you 😉

Now the OP is very publically whining about this on a large UK MTB forum, under a thinly-veiled guise of a 'review' which seems deliberately constructed to somewhat cynically get maximum forum views and responses.

I'll bet Pace absolutely love the OP.

But each to their own, I suppose. Carry on..

The thing about the design that strikes me is the bracing for the rear triangle isn't connected with the "top" bolt but I'd have thought that's the location of peak load.  I guess there's a reason they've adopted that approach.

I also appreciate I'm an accountant not an engineer 🙂 .

I can see Pace changing that mount for the next version, to me its obviously spindly at the front, so much so it would put me off the frame, I've had frames with post mount issues so it's now something I look more closely at, I personally think that's a terrible design and needs to be as thick as the rear section if it's gonna be unsupported like that, why make it that weak at the front when most of the braking force is going to it. It would probably be better if they flipped it. Look how the adapter is made then look at the post mount and where the material is.

You'd think the thicker arm of the mount would point forwards so that when the brake is used the thicker but would move / twist less than the narrower/longer section?

What size discs are you using and what does the frame claim to support?

Hang on.

In wet conditions and on steep terrain where the rear brake is under high load, I kept getting the most horrendous resonance through the frame into the pedals.

So not all the time? Very much not an engineer, but if it was such a problem, it would do it all the time, no? And there would be lots of reports from others with the same issue?

Given how much you say you like every other aspect of the bike, I’m not sure why you are SO focused on this and unwilling to even try a replacement frame, but each to their own.

That's a very fair observation Tom...one of which Pace also expressed when I told them how happy I was with it otherwise.

But wet conditions and steep terrain is pretty much half the year of my riding then. So not quite as limited as it might seem. And the issue I was facing certainly wasn't something I could just live with or ignore, it was far to noticeable.

If it had been found my frame had a manufacturing issue, I'd have of course taken the replacement and tried that. But once it was confirmed to be within tolerance and exactly as designed I felt it would just be wasting my time and money rebuilding it again and just as importantly wasting Paces. They'd end up with another used frame.

I've no issue with what the OP says or how he presents it.

I looks to my non-engineer brain a poor design of mount which will be more susceptible to flex and resonance.

One of the things I like about forums is you get the long term testing of products from other users that professional reviews don't always give you.

I've never read a review of the previous gen RaceFace carbon cranks failing. It's only after reading forums that you find out 75% of them ended up with wobbly pedal threads

Isn't that what's happening here whether the title or delivery is ideal is semantics.

From this thread I've learned that the rear brake vibrates under certain conditions and does so for more than one rider. It happens with a 180 rotor on steep stuff which is how I'd possibly use it. I'm a heavier rider so would apply more force which seems to be part of the problem.

I've also learned that Pace might be improving their attitude towards customers since I was last bitten by them as OP managed to get a resolution.

All useful stuff, I'd say.

Now the OP is very publically whining

I thought the OP refrained from whining and kept it factual. And as a former owner of Pace forks they have my sympathy.

It's a little odd that Pace presumably did a bunch of pre-production testing without, presumably, encountering the same issue, but that aside, I always enjoy the 'I am not an engineer but...' genre of commenting.

In proper STW victim-blaming tradition, can I be the first to suggest that the OP must be using their rear brake incorrectly 🙂

Finally, it's not a 'review' in the sense of being a balanced picture of a product. It's an entirely one-sided account of a problem.

The comment above states "and does so for more than one rider"

Unless you've seen otherwise outside of this topic - I'm not aware of that being the case. Apologies if you picked that up anywhere in what I said, I certainly didn't mean to imply that.

Testing has only been undertaken by myself - although my local mechanic did check everything over and came to the same conclusion and thoughts.

At the time of purchase - the only notable review of this frame online was by GuyKesTV. While I trust his views and thoughts, he clearly isn't capable of testing every bike in every condition.

I've tested in different conditions and posted my own thoughts - both positive and negative.

After confirming everything I had tested, Pace agreed to collected the frame and undertake their own review.

Upon receipt, Pace checked everything over and confirmed everything was good and that the issue was with my brake set up and not the frame. I didn’t agree.

Pace kindly agreed to send me out a replacement frame, but I declined this as I truly believe the rear mount is flawed. After plenty of back and forth between myself and Pace it was agreed best for all parties that my money be refunded.

Flippancy aside, if Pace can't reproduce the issue you're having, then essentially it's your word against their's. Are you particularly heavy OP? I wonder if you're simply needing/able to apply greater braking forces than the likes of Adrian Carter or Guy K, both of whom are relatively light to medium riders.

Beanieripper has a riding buddy with the same issue.

Are we still still calling Guy Kesteven a reviewer? I was somewhat surprised to hear him say negative things about a 50mm WTB gravel tyre recently because his still seems to thinly veiled promo rather than reviews these days.

@BadlyWiredDog - 5ft10 and 75kg

Flippancy aside, if Pace can’t reproduce the issue you’re having, then essentially it is your word against theirs.

I think there are a few on here who would suggest Pace's 'word' in the past has been less than ideal.

OP seems to have been fair and measured in detailing the experience here.

I wonder if Pace took the bike out for their test ride on some steep trails in the wet, or just had a quick pedal around the car park?

Yes, that's potentially unfair speculation - but y'know.

I’ll bet Pace absolutely love the OP

Sounds like they're doing the R&D for Pace, after spending good money on a product that appears to be not quite up to scratch, according to the OP. Are there still weight limits on their frames/forks, incidentally?

As for living with an issue you don't like on a bike - plenty on here would swap a frame or parts just for being the wrong colour, or not being the latest/blingiest. An actual issue that ruins the ride, that's another level.